Disarm optimization question

[Jon_Dahl]

I've read about some disarm builds and I've re-checked the rules twice, but I don't understand why no one does this:
You disarm the weapon. You pick up the weapon from the ground (provoke AoO while you do it). Now you own the opponent's weapon and can continue bashing him/her.

I think this tactic could be strong against melee opponents with no natural attacks. Few opponents have decent back-up weapons and everyone always puts everything on one card (one weapon).

What do you think? I hardly know anything about optimization, so feel free to blow this tactic.

Of course you can get the weapon easier by disarming unarmed, but you get -4 penalty to the opposing roll. I feel it's easier to use something like a bastard sword and picking up the weapon, so you can continue attacking while holding the weapon in your other hand.

[Amphetryon]

1. Provoking that AoO is generally dangerous, for obvious reasons, particularly if there are multiple opponents about.

2. There's little guarantee that the weapon the opponent uses is the one you can put to best use. It may be exotic, or it may simply be one in which you lack the same Feats to make your attacks most efficient.

3. Locked Gauntlets fundamentally shut this tactic down; two-handed weapons already make this tactic somewhat difficult.

4. This tactic only works in specific campaign styles, and often only across a specific span of ECL, as many lowly and high-powered monsters use weapons that are either Natural (and cannot be Disarmed) or inappropriately sized (making the choice to use the enemy's weapon instead of your own exceptionally sub-par), This ties in with #2.

5. The specific style you advocate - holding one weapon in one hand while attacking with the other - is voluntarily reducing the damage your Character does in a given round in essentially all but corner cases.

[DeltaEmil]

It might be a better idea to use a two-handed reach weapon to disarm the opponent. That way, the opponent will be forced to pick up its weapon as a move action, and will only be able to make one attack as a standard action. You also have the advantage of not needing the Improved Disarm feat, and won't provoke an attack of opportunity (unless the opponent has also reach).

[zlefin]

one idea might be to get a glove of storing;
then you can just pick up their weapon and store it after disarming, then resume your normal fighting.
This denies them their weapon wholly while letting you use your normal weapon.

[SethoMarkus]

The big issue with Disarming is that it is fairly easy to shut down. I wouldn't recommend using it as your main trick in a PC.

However, for an NPC, DMPC, or adversary, this has always been an idea that has intrigued me. Swashbuckler or Duelist type character that disarms and humiliates his (or, even better, her) opponents. You wouldn't even need to worry about damage output in these sorts of situations, and could just focus on separating the foe from their weapon just to aggravate them!

[Person_Man]

+1 to above comments. Disarm is only worthwhile in niche situations, doesn't have a huge chance of success, and unless you're fighting a "boss" enemy that happens to be humanoid or monstrous humanoid who depends on a weapon it's generally more efficient just to kill that enemy rather then wasting an attack disarming them.

If you want to use Disarm more often, you might want to consider spending 1 Feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Flindbar from Monster Manual III: +2 to Disarm, and when you threaten a crit (19-20 or 17-20 with any Keen effect) you get a free Disarm attempt before you roll to confirm the crit. See how often you use it in a real game. Then if it's really worthwhile, invest more.

[Talderas]

Disarm can actually be optimized fairly easily. Anything that increases your attack roll or decreases your opponents is a valid option for optimizing it. This is why the lock gauntlet isn't as huge of a barrier as some people make it out to be.

The big problems with disarm are...
1. Action economy, unlike trip, improved disarm doesn't grant you a free followup attack.
2. It can't be used against creatures that use natural weapons.
3. Size penalties can quickly make this untenable.