Help Optimizing a Master of Frost [3.5FR]

[Tokuhara]

I've been toying with this quite odd build concept:

Human Cold Domain Wizard 6/Frost Mage 4/Elemental Savant 10

Feats -

1 : Snowcasting, Energy Substitution (Cold), Frozen Magic, Cold Focus
3 : Winter's Blast
5 : Sculpt Spell
6 : Lord of the Uttercold

I know delaying Elemental Savant's capstone isn't ideal, but delaying Piercing Cold would be catastrophic. So here's my question:

How can I further optimize this build so I'm not crippling myself long-term

[Tokuhara]

Bumping to save this thread

[MirddinEmris]

The build can be further optimized by dropping Elemental Savant completely, it's a class that worse than a straight wizard.

[A_S]

Have you taken a look at Frostburn's Winterhaunt of Iborighu? It requires 1st level divine spells, but can advance arcane spellcasting. Overall, it's a much better ice blaster than Elemental Savant. Among other things, it gives free Piercing Cold on everything, +5d6 damage on all cold spells, and the rather nice Elemental type as a capstone.

*edit* I also don't think your feat selection is necessarily going to work out too well. Getting +1 to your save DC's or +2 to caster level is small potatoes, especially since you don't want to be using spells with saves when blasting anyway. Much better to get really good at metamagic stacking. You also don't want to do both Piercing Cold and Lord of the Uttercold; they accomplish the same thing (getting around cold immunity), and LotU makes PC 50% less effective (since it'll only work on the cold portion of the damage).

Here's a build I might consider:

1 - Cloistered Cleric 1 - Chosen of Iborighu, Piercing Cold
2 - Sorcerer 1
3 - Sorcerer 2 - Energy Substitution (cold)
4 - Sorcerer 3
5 - Sorcerer 4
6 - Sorcerer 5 - Craft Wondrous Item
7 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 1
8 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 2
9 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 3 - Energy Admixture (cold)
10 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 4
11 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 5
12 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 6 - Reach Spell
13 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 7
14 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 8
15 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 9 - Arcane Thesis (combust)
16 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 10
17 - Elemental Savant 1
18 - Elemental Savant 2 - Split Ray
19 - Elemental Savant 3
20 - Elemental Savant 4

If you're attached to Wizard, that works too; I just like Sorcerers better for blasting, and the charisma synergy with the Cloak of Winter's Chill ability is nice.

You'll start off using cold-substituted Scorching Rays (level 5), then move on to cold-substituted Orbs of Fire (for the daze rider, level 9). At level 15, you'll want to swap to your end-game spell, cold/cold admixed (and eventually split) reach combust. With a lesser rod of maximize (cheap), it'll do:

10 * 8 = 80 (10d8 base damage)
+ 5 * 6 = 30 (Coldstrike)
* 2 (energy admixture)
* 2 (split ray)
= 440 cold damage, no save, no SR, half to immune enemies

...in an 8th level spell slot. Which isn't record-setting, but will definitely get the job done. Cast Arcane Spellsurge at the beginning of combat and cast something else as a swift action each round, too (either an unmodified blasting spell, or something more utility/buff oriented).

Note that if you can finagle your way into access to the Magic domain (if your DM waives the requirement that you worship Iborighu, for instance), Dweomerkeeper 4 is a much better finish to this build than Elemental Savant 4.

[Tokuhara]

Have you taken a look at Frostburn's Winterhaunt of Iborighu? It requires 1st level divine spells, but can advance arcane spellcasting. Overall, it's a much better ice blaster than Elemental Savant. Among other things, it gives free Piercing Cold on everything, +5d6 damage on all cold spells, and the rather nice Elemental type as a capstone.

*edit* I also don't think your feat selection is necessarily going to work out too well. Getting +1 to your save DC's or +2 to caster level is small potatoes, especially since you don't want to be using spells with saves when blasting anyway. Much better to get really good at metamagic stacking. You also don't want to do both Piercing Cold and Lord of the Uttercold; they accomplish the same thing (getting around cold immunity), and LotU makes PC 50% less effective (since it'll only work on the cold portion of the damage).

Here's a build I might consider:

1 - Cloistered Cleric 1 - Chosen of Iborighu, Piercing Cold
2 - Sorcerer 1
3 - Sorcerer 2 - Energy Substitution (cold)
4 - Sorcerer 3
5 - Sorcerer 4
6 - Sorcerer 5 - Craft Wondrous Item
7 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 1
8 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 2
9 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 3 - Energy Admixture (cold)
10 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 4
11 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 5
12 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 6 - Reach Spell
13 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 7
14 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 8
15 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 9 - Arcane Thesis (combust)
16 - Winterhaunt of Iborighu 10
17 - Elemental Savant 1
18 - Elemental Savant 2 - Split Ray
19 - Elemental Savant 3
20 - Elemental Savant 4

If you're attached to Wizard, that works too; I just like Sorcerers better for blasting, and the charisma synergy with the Cloak of Winter's Chill ability is nice.

You'll start off using cold-substituted Scorching Rays (level 5), then move on to cold-substituted Orbs of Fire (for the daze rider, level 9). At level 15, you'll want to swap to your end-game spell, cold/cold admixed (and eventually split) reach combust. With a lesser rod of maximize (cheap), it'll do:

10 * 8 = 80 (10d8 base damage)
+ 5 * 6 = 30 (Coldstrike)
* 2 (energy admixture)
* 2 (split ray)
= 440 cold damage, no save, no SR, half to immune enemies

...in an 8th level spell slot. Which isn't record-setting, but will definitely get the job done. Cast Arcane Spellsurge at the beginning of combat and cast something else as a swift action each round, too (either an unmodified blasting spell, or something more utility/buff oriented).

Note that if you can finagle your way into access to the Magic domain (if your DM waives the requirement that you worship Iborighu, for instance), Dweomerkeeper 4 is a much better finish to this build than Elemental Savant 4.

The Winter Sorcerer of Iborighu is great, minus my party is mostly Good aligned

[SoraWolf7]

The Winter Sorcerer of Iborighu is great, minus my party is mostly Good aligned

That can be a problem, but on the bright side, I now have a build for a Yuki-Onna inspired character.

[Tokuhara]

That can be a problem, but on the bright side, I now have a build for a Yuki-Onna inspired character.

So yea. Winterhaunt is right out

[rockdeworld]

Mix in the Creeping Cold spell from Complete Divine with Extra Spell or the like. Add a dash of Extend and Persistent Spell. Use metamagic cheese or not, to taste. Stir well, then cast a Persistent Creeping Cold that deals 14400d6 damage in one round by the end of its duration.

[Tokuhara]

That's just disgusting.

[Tokuhara]

And as a secondary, and rather strange, question, How possible is it to play a caster who's 100% (or as close to that as possible) random. What I mean is an Arcane Caster who's spells, caster level, etc. are randomized and can go anywhere from bunk to brutal with a simple roll of the dice.

I know that Wild Mage is sort of this, but I want more randomness (like having my spellcasting be on multiple charts a la Rod of Wonder) and being built around the fickle-ness of dice rolls.

[A_S]

Wild Mage is the only support I know of for that concept.

[Tokuhara]

Wild Mage is the only support I know of for that concept.

So how would one appropriately replicate "Randomized Spells" on a Wizard?

[A_S]

So how would one appropriately replicate "Randomized Spells" on a Wizard?
You basically can't, as far as I know. I just meant that the Wild Mage's 9th level ability is the closest thing I know of.

[137beth]

Although it is 3rd party, see if you can use stuff from The Genius Guide to Ice Magic (http://paizo.com/products/btpy8by1?The-Genius-Guide-to-Ice-Magic).

You don't actually need to purchase it--all the spells are on this page (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spells-by-class-3rd-party/sorcerer-wizard-3pp) (the ones that say "SGG:IM" in the "source" column).