[3.5]Evil Knight

[Izathel]

Okay guys, I am new here so forgive any errors in this but I need help. I wanted to make an evil knight esc character for a game I have and yet I just cannot come up with a build. I wanted to go Blackguard, just cause I love them, but sadly, they do not do so well. I was hoping someone could help me. My DM said all books are allowed, but he wants it mid op. I have a free LA for my race, so there is that. Any help would be great guys, especially if I can get it fast. Thanks to those of you who help me.

[Komatik]

You pretty much can't go wrong with the Crusader or Warblade from Tome of Battle. The classes themselves pretty much always result in playable characters unless you're deliberately gimping yourself, are able to do lots of interesting things, yet can't break the game like well-played casters can.

Just be sure to use maneuver cards if you go the Crusader route - the recovery mechanic is horrendous to manage on paper, but is very natural, easy and smooth with a small deck of cards.

[ArcturusV]

I'd go with the Paladin of Tyranny from Unearthed Arcana. It's pretty much "Blackguard, the base class", so you're getting what you wanted from the get go with it. Of course since it IS a Paladin, the one thing you want is more paladin levels with it, not less. So I wouldn't necessarily suggest multiclassing or PrCing out unless you have a very specific plan like the standard Paladin/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight sort of thing.

Free LA you say? Well... hmm. That could be insanely broken. But lets presume you don't want to be insanely broken with it. Devilblooded Vasharan would be a +3 LA normally. Things you get with it: Free bonus feat that must be Vile (Not normally good, but it can help clear out crappy Vile Prereqs like Willing Deformity or Disciple of Darkness). Flight equal to your base speed. Natural claw attack of 1d3 x 2 (Not insanely impressive, but sometimes it matters that you can never be unarmed). Free Summon X as an SLA per day for Lawful Evil outsiders. Free scaling DR with your HD (It's DR 5/Good or Silver, DR 10/Good or Silver, DR 10 Good AND Silver as you level). Free Telepathy 100'. Free natural armor equal to your Hit Dice.

It's not insanely broken, but it's a useful grab bag of abilities.

[Ossian]

Okay guys, I am new here so forgive any errors in this but I need help. I wanted to make an evil knight esc character for a game I have and yet I just cannot come up with a build. I wanted to go Blackguard, just cause I love them, but sadly, they do not do so well. I was hoping someone could help me. My DM said all books are allowed, but he wants it mid op. I have a free LA for my race, so there is that. Any help would be great guys, especially if I can get it fast. Thanks to those of you who help me.

I had an idea sometime ago to play a black knight. As little magic as possible, a true Sir-de-Whatever wearing black chain and plate mail, broadswording his way up the social ladder, cheating at tournaments and jousts, assassinating rival nobles from the shadows of an alcove, beating the clergy into accepting his terms, kidnapping damsels and banding with bandits. Someone with just that trace of supernatural that scares the minions and the mooks.

Say, can I interesti you with a tiefling (LA +1) rogue/paladin of tyranny? Get the best and lightest of armours, get a black horse, get a cape, a full helmet, and a properly burnished plate armour, then start plotting and sowing discord across the land, 'till you get that damn crown or some do-gooder throws you down a fiery chasm. And To hell with optimization!

[Komatik]

Paladin of Tyranny? Seriously, people? Crusader exists. Has near-identical flavour, can be Evil, is much more forgiving to build, and all around less crappy a class. Not burdened by a horrid code of conduct, either, that would tempt the DM to make the character Fall and be boned mechanically.

Paladin only becomes good and interesting with cheese, which is not what we're after here.

[Xuldarinar]

If the concept here depends on LE, if you prefer law over evil, I suggest the Despot (Dragon Magazine #312).

Aura of law, detect chaos, smite chaos, Oppression which replaces turning/rebuking and sicken/nauseates people in 60 feet (the check determining how many), leadership at 5th, mark of justice replaces remove disease. They are evil, but bound to their word.

If you just want to be evil, a corrupter can be fun. NE, rebukes divine magic, smites anyone with a different religion from you, and your purpose is to corrupt churches from within and spread your faith. Gets improved familiar as a bonus feat along with a free imp or quasit as their familiar. Even gets disguise self at 3rd. best part, no rules effecting them regarding associates, though cohorts must be NE.


Then there is the anti-paladin which is similar to the paladin of slaughter. They turn outsiders though, which is kinda cool.

[ArcturusV]

Well, because it's not a book I've played around with, so I never think Martial Adept. Plus from what I've read it seems pretty hit and miss. Some consider the Crusader/Warblade/Swordsage very high OP, some consider them just kinda "eh". But you run a Paladin and unless you are in a weird game, probably with houserules as well, no one is going to call you out on being over optimized.

[Komatik]

Well, because it's not a book I've played around with, so I never think Martial Adept. Plus from what I've read it seems pretty hit and miss. Some consider the Crusader/Warblade/Swordsage very high OP, some consider them just kinda "eh". But you run a Paladin and unless you are in a weird game, probably with houserules as well, no one is going to call you out on being over optimized.

They're not high optimization as such, their optimization floor (~= minimum power level) is just "strong, functional, versatile" instead of "You died" like a badly built Fighter or Wizard is, for example.
It does translate into power if no one knows how to build characters though. You can't squeeze much broken stuff out of them, though. They're very reliable in that way.

[Feint's End]

They're not high optimization as such, their optimization floor (~= minimum power level) is just "strong, functional, versatile" instead of "You died" like a badly built Fighter or Wizard is, for example.
It does translate into power if no one knows how to build characters though. You can't squeeze much broken stuff out of them, though. They're very reliable in that way.

that pretty much

Crusaders are just always useful (or almost always) and are hard to play overpowered. That is basically mid op without any work into it. They have useful abilities, good damage, good skill list, nice support, charisma synergy.

To say it in other words. Take this class if you want a paladin/ dark knight flavour over paladin variants. If you want some magic you can play lawful evil and go ruby knight vindicator.

[Komatik]

Devoted Spirit school is full of supernatural effects that someone forgot to tag as such, too.

[Silva Stormrage]

I also support crusader, can you use your level adjustment for a template? If so the Draconic template would be perfect for you as it gives +2 str, +2 con and +2 charisma along with some other decent bonuses.

[Feint's End]

I also support crusader, can you use your level adjustment for a template? If so the Draconic template would be perfect for you as it gives +2 str, +2 con and +2 charisma along with some other decent bonuses.

second that .... put it on a lesser aasimar for a wooping +2 str +2 con +2 wis +4 cha and all that for +1 la. With that the mad of most melee classes isn't really a thing anymore.

[Izathel]

Wow guys, alot of great ideas came out of this and I'm gonna look deeper into them based on what you all posted. Thank you all for your help. :D

[herrhauptmann]

Here's another one for you.
A fear based build from Biffionacus
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15885712&postcount=11
When it was suggested to me, it was to be gestalted with a warlock to shore up weaknesses in the build.
On the downside, the code of conduct for PoT is perhaps even worse than the regular paladin. I'd recommend working with the DM to create a better CoC, perhaps one geared to your deity.


Paladin of Tyranny? Seriously, people? Crusader exists. Has near-identical flavour, can be Evil, is much more forgiving to build, and all around less crappy a class. Not burdened by a horrid code of conduct, either, that would tempt the DM to make the character Fall and be boned mechanically.
Not every DM tries to make paladins fall, not every player wants to play a crusader.
OP said mid-optimization, but we don't knowthe breakpoints for optimization levels at the OPs table.

[Averis Vol]

I am a fellow player in the OP's campaign, so for reference here is my character:

http://www.rpgcrossing.com/profiler/view.php?id=42250

Variants are ferocity for barb, invisible fist for monk, hit and run for fighter.

EDIT: we're also going through the mournlands, which I hear is terrible, so that might aid in your decisions.

[John Longarrow]

For evil Knight a crusader/warblade would work really well. Toss in a couple levels of Fighter for extra feats (assuming you want to do the whole mounted knight) to qualify for Cavalier (pClass to BE a knight).

If you are just looking for something nasty in melee.. I'd go 1/2 troll Mongrel folk. Really high Strength and Con. Level up in Barbarian and Warblade and you will have lots of hit points and hit like a freight train. Toss in that you heal quickly and you have a very durable and dangerous combatant.

For more advice, please let us know what types of things you are looking to do and what type of combat you want to focus on.