Is being Scary actually Scary?

[PraxisVetli]

So here's what's up.
Making a character, but I've a few guidelines in place; if anyone cares why then I'll explain later.

Have to play sorceror/psion
Have to specialize in Enchantment/Illusion
Have to disciplinize in Telepath
Have to be young (child/early teen) human female
No melee whatsoever. Pure Cast/Manifest

Now, I thought about going Fear based, later using Shadow Conjuration to do some actual damage. But having never done anything with Illusionry, I've some questions.
Does a failed save against an Illusionary Red Dragon's breath cause damage? Or does the Illusion Simply fade then?
How efficient really are fear effects? It doesn't take long for things to be Mind-Effecting Immune, what to do about that?
What use really is Telepath oitside of Fluff?
How to stay useful in Combat/optimize action economy.

My concept is beautiful, to read the minds of people and make them fight their most horrid dreams.
-Tsukiyomi anyone?-

Debated build-
5psion//6sorc//5nightmareSpinner//4cerebromancer
Opinions tips and criticism all appreciated!

[JusticeZero]

Dreads and iirc Antipaladins or something of the sort have a fear aura that can crack that immunity, but everyone else is pretty much retiring once that immunity comes up regularly. Neither synergize with an arcane caster, being melee or gishy and not using arcane spells in any case.
Illusions are best when they're subtle, instead of being used as an attack.

[Blackhawk748]

I recommend the Dread Witch PrC its good for scaring the crap out of things, and fear effects work for awhile, just not undead sadly, so you might wanna grab control undead or something similar. And yes shadow illusions are awesome, take them.

[PraxisVetli]

I recommend the Dread Witch PrC its good for scaring the crap out of things, and fear effects work for awhile, just not undead sadly, so you might wanna grab control undead or something similar. And yes shadow illusions are awesome, take them.

Where's Dread Witch, I'll have to check it out.

[Blackhawk748]

Heroes of Horror, its a pretty easy to qualify for PrC, i also recommend looking through BoVD as it will have plenty of feats and spells that may fit what you want.

[PraxisVetli]

Heroes of Horror, its a pretty easy to qualify for PrC, i also recommend looking through BoVD as it will have plenty of feats and spells that may fit what you want.

Sweet, thanks man
edit:
Ok, Dread Witch I like. Definately rocking it. Any Suggestions on the Psion end of things?
While Nightmare Spinner and Dread Witch give me +1 arcane caster, I'm running out of levels, and I need something for Telepath to be worth the time.

[A_S]

Are you completely dedicated to Psion (Telepath)? I ask because Ardent is more robust to losing ML from multiclassing (since their max power known level is based on their ML, including boosts like Practiced Manifester and Overchannel, rather than class level). With the right mantles, you can definitely make an Ardent fit the "mess with people's mind" flavor.

[Maginomicon]

There's an NPC unique ability in DMG 2 page 158 called "Abysmally Wretched". See if you can get your GM to give you it as a PC. :smallamused:

Abysmally Wretched (Su):The NPC is horrendously ugly and disgusting to look upon. Any creature within 30 feet that looks at the uncovered countenance of the NPC must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 NPC’s character level + NPC’s Cha modifier) or become nauseated for 1d4 rounds. Thereafter, the affected creature can look at the NPC without ill effects. Each day, the NPC can affect a total number of creatures equal to her character level with this ability. The closest creatures are affected first, and those with the lowest Hit Dice before those with higher Hit Dice.

[A_S]

There's an NPC unique ability in DMG 2 page 158 called "Abysmally Wretched". See if you can get your GM to give you it as a PC. :smallamused:
I'm guessing this is going to run up against the OP's "creepy little girl" fluff.

[PraxisVetli]

I'm guessing this is going to run up against the OP's "creepy little girl" fluff.
Yes, yes it will.

Are you completely dedicated to Psion (Telepath)? I ask because Ardent is more robust to losing ML from multiclassing (since their max power known level is based on their ML, including boosts like Practiced Manifester and Overchannel, rather than class level). With the right mantles, you can definitely make an Ardent fit the "mess with people's mind" flavor.

Well, Technically yes, I am Tele dedicated, my classes are semi-preset, though I will look into Ardent, MAYBE I can pull it off.
I'm guessing "ML" is Manifester Level?
Unsure as to the difference between manifester and class levels?

Essentially, the Character was an NPC rescued by another of my characters in a seperate campaign, I've decided to play her, so she has a story, you know?

[Maginomicon]

I'm guessing "ML" is Manifester Level?
Unsure as to the difference between manifester and class levels?
Manifester Level, much like Caster Level, is a variable value that determines how powerful a given effect is. A number of effects exist which pump up caster level. Not many effects exist which pump up manifester level, which is intentional because your manifester level defines the maximum number of power points you can spend on manifesting a given power (through augmenting and/or metapsionics), which is a huge deal.

"Class Level" is how many character levels you have in a relevant class, and usually dictates the base Caster/Manifester level, but is not variable like CL/ML is.

[A_S]

Well, Technically yes, I am Tele dedicated, my classes are semi-preset, though I will look into Ardent, MAYBE I can pull it off.
I'm guessing "ML" is Manifester Level?
Unsure as to the difference between manifester and class levels?
Yes, ML = manifester level.

Normally, ML = class level, but there's various ways to boost it. Practiced Manifester gets you a flat +4 up to a max of your total hit dice, and Overchannel lets you take a little damage to boost it by +1 to +3 (amount scales with your character level).

For most classes, including Psion, increasing ML doesn't let you learn higher level powers, just overcome Power Resistance more easily and augment your powers further. Ardents, though, have a unique mechanic where the max level of power they can learn is restricted only by the number of power points they are capable of spending on one power, which scales with ML rather than class level.

That means an Ardent with Practiced Manifester and Overchannel can learn high level powers pretty easily, even if she's spent a bunch of levels on, say, Dread Witch, instead of something that advances manifesting.

That makes Ardent a very friendly class for theurging. It's pretty easy, for instance, to make a sorc/ardent who gets 9th level spells and powers and still grabs some cool class features.

[PraxisVetli]

Most excellent. At work atm, but tonight I'll read through everything.
thanks guys.
Would Practiced Spellcaster work with Dread Witch's Greater Master of Terror?

[A_S]

Would Practiced Spellcaster work with Dread Witch's Greater Master of Terror?
Yes, it would.

[Gavinfoxx]

I can't believe no one has linked to this!

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809

Seriously, get on the game, people!

[PraxisVetli]

Okay, Okay, so then I should drop my feats into being able to "cast" both classes, so then I wont need Cerebromancer. I mean, if I've the level slot it can't hurt, but better to poke into Nightmare Spinner?



I briefly skimmed Ardent, it looks akin to Cleric, yeah? Mantles over Domains.
But, do I only get Mantle powers, or is there a general Ardent List then the Mantles are Additional?

[A_S]

Only mantles. They can also learn powers via the Expanded Knowledge feat, same as any psionic character, but there's no core Ardent list like there is for Clerics.

That said, the Knowledge, Mental Power, and Corruption and Madness mantles all go pretty well with your character concept. The only big thing I see missing from them is a good way to read thoughts (i.e., figure out what your targets are most afraid of), which could be picked up via Expanded Knowledge for Mind Probe.

I wouldn't drop Cerebremancer entirely. You can only make up 7 or so ML with feats, so you want to get at least some from levels. And you don't want to spend too many levels on straight non-theurge psionic classes, because there's no Ardent equivalent for the arcane side of things that'll let you get away with dropping caster levels.

I, personally, don't think Nightmare Spinner is worth the lost caster level, even for a fear specialist. If I were making a fear/illusion/telepathy-focused sorc/ardent, I think I would go with something like:

1 - Sorcerer 1 - Shadow Weave Magic, Dreadful Wrath
2 - Sorcerer 2
3 - Sorcerer 3 - Fell Frighten
4 - Sorcerer 4
5 - Dread Witch 1
6 - Ardent 1 - Practiced Manifester (ardent)
7 - Dread Witch 2
8 - Dread Witch 3
9 - Dread Witch 4 - Overchannel
10 - Dread Witch 5
11 - Cerebremancer 1
12 - Cerebremancer 2 - Expanded Knowledge (mind probe)
13 - Cerebremancer 3
14 - Cerebremancer 4
15 - Mindbender 1 - Mindsight
16 - Cerebremancer 5
17 - Cerebremancer 6
18 - Cerebremancer 7 - Practical Metamagic (Fell Frighten)
19 - Cerebremancer 8
20 - Cerebremancer 9

That gets you 9th level spells with Sorcerer, potentially 9th level powers with Ardent (although I'd probably pick Knowledge and Mental Power mantles for your character concept, which don't have any 9th level powers). If you want Nightmare Spinner, you could sub it in for 5 levels of Cerebremancer. It'd mean losing 9th level spells and 7th-9th level powers, though. Also, the first-level feats are both FR setting-specific, so you might end up having to swap them for something else depending on how your DM feels about them.

Another thing to consider is how high level the campaign starts, and how long you expect it to go on. The build stub above really falls into place around level 12, with 5th level spells and powers, full Dread Witch class features, and a good way to read minds. If you're not sure you're going to get to level 12, you might be better off with something more front-loaded.

[PraxisVetli]

How Dread Witch at level 5?
Can't prestige until 6 I thought?

[A_S]

How Dread Witch at level 5?
Can't prestige until 6 I thought?
Nope, no such rule. All you gotta do is meet the prerequisites. Most PrC's have requirements that make it difficult or impossible to enter before level 6, but Dread Witch isn't one of them. It can actually be entered at level 3, but only with multiclassing and some light cheese.

[PraxisVetli]

Nope, no such rule. All you gotta do is meet the prerequisites. Most PrC's have requirements that make it difficult or impossible to enter before level 6, but Dread Witch isn't one of them. It can actually be entered at level 3, but only with multiclassing and some light cheese.

I am rage.
Lied to all these years...
I now understand why my previous DM wouldn't ever let us read the DMG.
Cuz everything he taught us was wrong.

[PraxisVetli]

Only mantles. They can also learn powers via the Expanded Knowledge feat, same as any psionic character, but there's no core Ardent list like there is for Clerics.

That said, the Knowledge, Mental Power, and Corruption and Madness mantles all go pretty well with your character concept. The only big thing I see missing from them is a good way to read thoughts (i.e., figure out what your targets are most afraid of), which could be picked up via Expanded Knowledge for Mind Probe.

I wouldn't drop Cerebremancer entirely. You can only make up 7 or so ML with feats, so you want to get at least some from levels. And you don't want to spend too many levels on straight non-theurge psionic classes, because there's no Ardent equivalent for the arcane side of things that'll let you get away with dropping caster levels.

I, personally, don't think Nightmare Spinner is worth the lost caster level, even for a fear specialist. If I were making a fear/illusion/telepathy-focused sorc/ardent, I think I would go with something like:

1 - Sorcerer 1 - Shadow Weave Magic, Dreadful Wrath
2 - Sorcerer 2
3 - Sorcerer 3 - Fell Frighten
4 - Sorcerer 4
5 - Dread Witch 1
6 - Ardent 1 - Practiced Manifester (ardent)
7 - Dread Witch 2
8 - Dread Witch 3
9 - Dread Witch 4 - Overchannel
10 - Dread Witch 5
11 - Cerebremancer 1
12 - Cerebremancer 2 - Expanded Knowledge (mind probe)
13 - Cerebremancer 3
14 - Cerebremancer 4
15 - Mindbender 1 - Mindsight
16 - Cerebremancer 5
17 - Cerebremancer 6
18 - Cerebremancer 7 - Practical Metamagic (Fell Frighten)
19 - Cerebremancer 8
20 - Cerebremancer 9

That gets you 9th level spells with Sorcerer, potentially 9th level powers with Ardent (although I'd probably pick Knowledge and Mental Power mantles for your character concept, which don't have any 9th level powers). If you want Nightmare Spinner, you could sub it in for 5 levels of Cerebremancer. It'd mean losing 9th level spells and 7th-9th level powers, though. Also, the first-level feats are both FR setting-specific, so you might end up having to swap them for something else depending on how your DM feels about them.

Another thing to consider is how high level the campaign starts, and how long you expect it to go on. The build stub above really falls into place around level 12, with 5th level spells and powers, full Dread Witch class features, and a good way to read minds. If you're not sure you're going to get to level 12, you might be better off with something more front-loaded.
Well, Firstly, thank you so much.
However, I'm making some adjustments, mostly fluff. I want to trade the Mindbender for MetaPhysical Shaper, I have a hypercleric that can make the heal check, tap her wis for meta-ing.
Flavorwise, she's a conduit of a new plane between Shadow and Dreamscape, releasing her own personal nightmares when she casts.
Its not ideal, but I'm in love with the idea!

[A_S]

Metaphysical Spell Shaper? Like, the BoEF class? Heh, okay. If you're doing that, make sure to sink a few more feats into metamagic. It'd be a shame to waste that level of brokenness on small potatoes like Fell Frighten.

[PraxisVetli]

Yeah, its a lil off kilter, but man, I am halfway through the first combat encounter as we speak, and bjeebus, I own this Battlefield.
Own.
Freakin Own.
I hate Shar, so I traded Shadow Weave for Precosious Apprentice, grabbed Phantasmal Assailant.
I debuff everything, these 7wolves are all shaken and intimidated and nonsense.
Thank you for your help man!


oh and, to be sure, meta out the woosa.
Any good suggested meta's?
I'm used to playing an evocationist

[A_S]

Well, Persistent Spell is the classic. For your schtick, I'd look into persisting Aura of Terror (from Draconomicon). It basically takes any existing fear aura (like the ones you'd get from Dreadful Wrath or Dread Witch) and pumps it full of steroids.

Quicken Spell is also potentially good, but since you're a sorcerer, you're probably going to end up using Arcane Spellsurge to get swift action casting, so if you think the campaign is going to go long enough for you to get 7th level spells, investing into Quicken (which would also require some means of overcoming the issue with Sorcerers casting metamagic'd spells as full round actions) might be a waste of feats.

Fell Drain could be good. It's good applied to pretty much all the same things as Fell Frighten. So, if you had a Fell Drain Fell Frighten Cloud of Knives up (and hell, why not persist it while you're at it), you could chuck a knife every round as a free action that applied a negative level and made the target shaken. Or Fell Drain Fell Frighten Magic Missile to apply a negative level and shaken to five targets at once.