Eve Online

[blackout]

I was thinking of starting to play Eve sometime. I've heard some bad things, but I've heard just as many good things...plus, the graphics and the ships, and even just space look freakin awesome.

[Maxymiuk]

Good things about EVE:

- They've just released a new expansion. Tons of new features, chief among them a much more user-friendly character creation system designed specifically for players new to the game.
- The tutorial is one of the best that I've seen in any MMO. Sure, it takes about 2.5 hours to finish, but at the end of it you know all the core concepts of the game.
- Freeform character development. Whether you want to be a combat pilot, asteroid miner, trader, manufacturer, or all of the above, you can do it. And if you don't like your current ocupation, or just want some variety, it's easy enough to simply train the required skills to do something else.
- Skills train even if you're not playing. This means you don't need to spend 16 hours every day grinding just to keep up with other players.
- Your average EVE player is way smarter and more polite than your average WoW player. Most of the smack-talkers get weeded out fairly soon.
- Most missions are perfectly doable by yourself. It helps to group in a few cases, but it isn't necessary if you don't want to.
- Yes, the graphics do make you go "whoa" when you first see the game.
- Lastly, no naked dancing orcs in space. Nuff said.


Bad things about EVE:

- They've just released a new expantion. Stability and bug issues ensue.
- The game does have a a very high learning curve. It weeds out most of the asshats, but it may also discourage more casual players.
- The interface is complicated and a bit intimidating. You can spend a lot of time digging through menus, sub-menus, lists, and tabs. If you expect a Freelancer-style shootout game, then EVE isn't for you.
- PC pirates are a problem. Less so now than before, due to the expansion features, but you still have to watch your step in low security systems.
- On weekends the servers (or rather, one master server with multiple nodes) really get their capacity tested. Results include lag and traffic jams as jumpgates between solar systems lock up for up to 20 minutes.
- You don't lose out on skills if you don't grind, but you do lose out on money. Not a big issue, but still.
- Eventually you pretty much have to join a PC corporation, otherwise there's not much else to do. And setting up your own space station, maintaining it, and keeping it supplied with fuel, while at once earning money and manufacturing those advanced spaceships and equipment just isn't something you can handle by your lonesome.



I play the game because I like the complexity, depth, and the pretty explosions when you blow up a large structure. If you ever do join in, my nick is "Deiren" without the quotation marks. Look me up if you want tips on Caldari ships or anything other than mining.

[The Evil Thing]

Seconding what Max said. I'd especially like to emphasise his point about Freelancer, don't expect a game similar to that in any way at all. Secondly, don't be disappointed/intimidated that you'll never catch up to older players; each skill only has 5 levels which take increasingly longer to train so it's quite easy to catch up and equal veterans in some areas (just not as many :smallwink:)

Look me up if you like, my name is "Penchance". If you stick with us past the trial I can probably get you into my corp if you'd like. No obligations etc. etc.

If you want some advice on character creation then just PM me or something. I also recommend you install EVEMon (http://evemon.battleclinic.com/) as it's quite a handy tool to have. It'll help you understand the skill system a little better.

[Tengu]

I think you can find a free trial of this game somewhere. Might be worth a try for you, to see will you like it. I didn't, prefer WoW on an RP server. The graphics and music are very good though.

[blackout]

Well, what's a rough guestimate on the ratio of roleplayers to non role-players?

[Yuki Akuma]

..Roleplayers? In EVE? Hmm...

It's tough, really. No one seems to really be 'in-character' often, and yet they always seem to act the way someone in their position should act anyway.

Not many people play up to the racial tensions, though.

[NEO|Phyte]

I'm currently 5 days into the free 14-day trial as a railgun-loving Caldari in a Cormorant. I've been pondering going for a Moa before my time is up, but thats a lot of money to scrounge up, and since I currently have no means of becoming a paying member, I'm not terribly inclined to take any loans.

The extent of my interactions with other players thus far has been a PKing incident, but even with ignoring the corp aspect of this game, I've found it quite enjoyable, although its a bit of a pain when you lose a few million ISK worth of ship parts because your latancy flared up at about the time you realize its time to warp away and save your ship. But hey, thats the point when I decided to move up from frigates to destroyers, and I'm glad I did :3

[Maxymiuk]

Well, what's a rough guestimate on the ratio of roleplayers to non role-players?

Roleplaying, as such, doesn't happen. Instead, you have politics.

Um, this may need a longer explanation, so bear with me.

The universe (5000+ systems) is divided, roughly, into two parts: Empire Space (high security) and everything else (low security). In high security systems there's an NPC police force - CONCORD - that goes after anyone that starts shooting fellow players. They're undefeatable, so highsec is generally safe.

Low security, as you may guess, doesn't have them around. This is the domain of various pirates and corporations. Lowsec is also where you find the tougher NPC pirates (rats, for short) and the rarer and more valuable ore types. But, since there is no independent security force, law is what you make of it.

This results in a complex network of alliances, contracts, deals, and agreements. There's corporations that "claim" a particular asteroid field and demand payment for mining there, on pain of getting yourself plastered across the sky. There are combat alliances, PK corps, Anti-PK corps, bounty-hunting corps, mercenary corps. There are manufacturing contracts, transportation contracts, trading contracts...

In the beginning of the game, when you're in the newb corp, lowsec becomes this huge bogeyman that's just waiting to swallow you up. Well, it isn't as bad as people make it out to be, but you still have to watch your step. Out in lowsec people take agreements and property rights seriously.

[The Evil Thing]

There is some dedicated roleplaying going on, but it's more passive, goal-orientated roleplaying rather than speaking IC, as it were. Some alliances will exclude certain races because of the intended cause they're fighting for. You may find the odd pirate that's engaging in a little roleplay to justify his or her murderous tendencies. They're quite entertaining. Usually.

[blackout]

So what your saying is the wealthy and powerful rule the outer rim, while law and order rule the inner rim, kind of like in Firefly?

[The Evil Thing]

Kind of like just about any science fiction in existence :smallbiggrin:

[blackout]

I see...Pirates, you say? :)

[The Evil Thing]

'fraid so. Lots of the little gits.

[blackout]

Well, I'm going for a free trial now, just to see what it's like. Any suggestions on player creation?

[Penguinizer]

This sounds like it would be great. But I'll just probably stick with Guild Wars.

[Amotis]

I was interested as well. Dark Stalion dragged me in.

[WampaX]

My housemate plays . . . well, he's playing again.
He and some frineds tried to start their own corp the first time out and came to the realization that there were just two few of them when they couldn't maintain their second station with any regularity. So he quit, from Aug - Nov.

Then the friends started to play again and now they are part of a larger corp and don't have to worry too much about manpower anymore. He seems to be having a blast since he is no longer the one trying to keep two stations online with spit and bailing wire.

[blackout]

How difficult is it to maintain a single, small station?

[Yuki Akuma]

How difficult is it to maintain a single, small station?

Very, very difficult. And very, very expensive. And the defenses cost almost as much as the station. And the skills required... don't even get me started on the skill prerequisites...

And any player-run station can be attacked by anyone with enough manpower, whether the owner is online or not. So you need someone online aroujnd the clock, or at least very very good automated defenses. Or a treaty with the other corps in the area, or a contract with a merc corp to protect your station, or...

[Amotis]

Well players on these boards, is it worth it? Is it a fun game?

[blackout]

it better be, cus I'm installing the client right now for two week long free trial.

[The Evil Thing]

Any suggestions on player creation?
Your stats directly affect how fast you train certain types of skills so have in mind what you plan to do first of all. You can switch, of course, but it's so helpful to have high stats in your preferred career. You can try to balance things out, but that's rather futile as you'll inevitably train some skills more than others.

As a general rule:
Trading -> Charisma, Willpower
Combat -> Perception, Willpower
Mining/Industry/Research -> Intelligence, Memory
Leadership -> Charisma, Willpower

Although INT and MEM may look niche, they affect training times for support skills that improve your shields or armour so if you intend to see combat, it may be worth putting some points into them.

Note also that all ship-piloting skills use PERC and WILL only.


Well players on these boards, is it worth it? Is it a fun game?
Yes, get it now. :smallwink:

[blackout]

Having some trouble. My client wont start the game, i gave it my password and username.

[blackout]

strike that. :)

[WampaX]

Yes, get it now. :smallwink:

Can't run it.
I play vicariously through my housemate.

[Amotis]

*is buying a new computer so will be able to run it*

[NEO|Phyte]

I've got ~36 hours to increase my funds by a few million so as to maximize my Moa time once my cruiser skill is high enough. If I'm lucky, I'll find another arbalest missile launcher to sell for much monies. If not, I've got a bit of ratting to do.

Barring unforeseen difficulties, I should have around 7 days of Moa fun before my trial expires and my lack of money prevents me from continuing.

:edit: Just hit Cruiser I, 2 more ranks to go

[blackout]

Ok, well, I played for a few hours, and, while it was pretty impressive for awhile, it got boring after I entered combat for the first time. the enemy wouldn't die. :(

[Maxymiuk]

How difficult is it to maintain a single, small station?

Let's assume that you're starting a station in highsec, so that you don't have to bother about pirates raiding it.

About 2-5mil worth of scan probes to scout out a good location.
100mil to buy the control tower.
50mil for fuel, highsec permits, and other materials to start it up as well as hangars, harvesters, silos, etc.
Approx. 50mil to keep it running for 1000 hours.

And let's not forget a transport ship to get all of that in place.

And if you want to start harvesting the nearby moon for resources so that the station may actually start earning a profit, you'll also need to pay for reaction blueprints to manufacture harvested materials into something that can be sold. And at this point do your own stinkin' math.

[warbacon]

- Lastly, no naked dancing orcs in space. Nuff said.

Seconded! Kudos for using the word "asshat" in context and correctly.


Any suggestions on player creation?

This isn't so much a suggestion as much as what I did with my character. I spent the first month doing nothing but training my Learning skills. For those not in the know, each point in a learning skill raises a stat point by one point, making your other skills increase faster. I maxed out all the basic skills and did 4 points of each of the advanced skills. Yes, it took a month of solid time management. E.g., I would only log in to change skill learning over to a new stat, stay up late / wake up early to change over a skill and not waste time, and had to buy some ISK on a website to afford the advanced skills. Yes, I'm totally insane.

But it worked!

As for real suggestions, there are basically two things you can do as a new character -- do missions to kill NPC rats (or just hunt them yourself), or mine. You won't have the isk to buy a decent trading vessel, and you won't know good trade routes. Killing rats is a lot more fun, I thought, but it gets repetitive. To be honest, I have no idea what the early mining game looks like these days, so all I can say is that a long time ago it was boring and tedious :smalltongue:.

I'm not sure which method actually works out to more money gained per hour spent, but they're likely not *too* different, and mining tends to be safer. That is, of course, until you start going to .5 sec zones for the better ore. You start needing escorts about there somewhere.

Your choice of race and such should be made for roleplaying reasons since there are no skills barred to a particular race. An Amarr can become an expert in Hybrid or Artillery guns, for example. There were times when a certain weapon types were observably superior (ahhh Pulse Lasers ... how I miss thee), but that seems to be over. Maybe a more statistically minded player could confirm this? Of course, each of the three base weapon types (energy, artillery, and hybrid) have different ranges, refire rates, and ammo varieties. Missiles are a whole different bag of worms, and I've never used them. The EVE website has an item database that can help you understand these differences, which will help you choose a suitable playstyle. Also, remember that a race's ships are generally designed to complement their chosen weapon type. For example, Amarr ships generally have boosts to armor and capacitors.

[Maxymiuk]

Kudos for using the word "asshat" in context and correctly.

Um... I take pride in knowing how and when to insult? Does that sound right?


This isn't so much a suggestion as much as what I did with my character. I spent the first month doing nothing but training my Learning skills. For those not in the know, each point in a learning skill raises a stat point by one point, making your other skills increase faster. I maxed out all the basic skills and did 4 points of each of the advanced skills. Yes, it took a month of solid time management. E.g., I would only log in to change skill learning over to a new stat, stay up late / wake up early to change over a skill and not waste time, and had to buy some ISK on a website to afford the advanced skills. Yes, I'm totally insane.

But it worked!Had that suggested to me, but I decided I wanted action first and foremost, so I interspaced learning skills with those related to combat. Also, the longer I play, the more I realize that it doesn't really pay to specialize in only one thing. Industry skills will come useful if you want to get a new ship cheaper. Mining skills will come useful if you don't want to pay for the minerals you'll need for that ship. Trade skills will come useful when you want to sell a rare (but useless to you) item on the market. Etc., etc., etc.

Also, I'd personally stay away from money sellers on the net. I heard about people who got their accounts suspended for buying ISK.


As for real suggestions, there are basically two things you can do as a new character -- do missions to kill NPC rats (or just hunt them yourself), or mine. You won't have the isk to buy a decent trading vessel, and you won't know good trade routes. Killing rats is a lot more fun, I thought, but it gets repetitive. To be honest, I have no idea what the early mining game looks like these days, so all I can say is that a long time ago it was boring and tedious :smalltongue:.It's still boring and tedious. But with a bit of work you can pull a real monty haul. Though in highsec macrominers are the bane of every newbie out to make an honest buck.


I'm not sure which method actually works out to more money gained per hour spent, but they're likely not *too* different, and mining tends to be safer. That is, of course, until you start going to .5 sec zones for the better ore. You start needing escorts about there somewhere.Depends. At my current level I can reasonably expect to pull in 3-4mil in an hour long mission, so I'm close to the level of a miner at the same stage of development. Earlier miners have a distinct advantage, but as I said mining is boring. You might as well read a book.


Your choice of race and such should be made for roleplaying reasons since there are no skills barred to a particular race. An Amarr can become an expert in Hybrid or Artillery guns, for example. There were times when a certain weapon types were observably superior (ahhh Pulse Lasers ... how I miss thee), but that seems to be over. Maybe a more statistically minded player could confirm this? Of course, each of the three base weapon types (energy, artillery, and hybrid) have different ranges, refire rates, and ammo varieties. Missiles are a whole different bag of worms, and I've never used them. The EVE website has an item database that can help you understand these differences, which will help you choose a suitable playstyle. Also, remember that a race's ships are generally designed to complement their chosen weapon type. For example, Amarr ships generally have boosts to armor and capacitors.Each race specializes in a certain type of combat, and character creation gives you a big leg-up in their chosen field. For example, Caldari specialize in shield tanking, hybrid turrets and missle launchers, while Gallente armor tank and win their battles with swarms of combat drones.

A quick breakdown of weaponry:
Hybrid turrets: Come in a railgun and blaster variety. Railguns have very good range, but are foiled easily by a fast enemy who comes in close. Blasters are the high-damage, close range alternative with a fast rate of fire that chews through your ammo like nobody's business. Quick note of ammo: It deals two types of damage and always the same two types of damage. There are several kinds of ammo which offer variable tradeoff between range and damage.
Projectile Turrets: Artillery and machine guns. Fastest rates of fire in the game, but also with the lowest relative damage, which means you better bring piles of ammo. Ammunition comes in every damage variety.
Energy turrets: Or lasers in plain english.Not my weapon of choice, so I'll just say what I know. They don't use ammo, but they burn through you capacitor, which pretty much restricts them to Amarr who's ships have the power to spare. Can be fitted with various lenses to increase power, range, and (I think) change damage type.
Drones: Little AI controlled ships that can help you fight, mine, repair your ship, or inflict electronic warfare on the enemy. Very useful things to have for big ships who's guns are too large to effectively track frigate-sized enemies. Drawback is that they can be targetted and shot down. Weep as they crash and burn if your enemy thought to equip a smartbomb (big explotion originating from your ship). Drones are the domain of the Gallente who have the largest drone bays and can do outright scary things with their little swarms, but any race can benefit from them. Additional benefit: if someone target jams you, they'll keep on fighting.
Missle launchers: My personal weapon of choice. Advantages include high damage output, the fact that they always hit, and extremely long range. Disadvantages include a very slow rate of fire and the ability to be shot down with defender missles. They also tend to run into the big gun problem - if you're trying to shoot down an interceptor with cruise missles, you're doing it wrong. Ammo comes in every damage type. Additional ammo note: If you keep getting target jammed, you can opt for FoF (Friend or Foe) missles which don't require a lock. Their drawback is shorter range and a tendency to hit completely random objects, such as asteroids.

[The Evil Thing]

Bear in mind that your starting skills are largely inconsequential as you will quickly train more, it is the same for your race.

Further on the subtleties of each race:
Caldari
Shield tanks, when done properly, are the strongest tanks in the game but require the most careful micromanagement. They also use both medium and low slots to operate (shield modules in med slots, power diagnostics in low slots) meaning it can be very hard to use a strong shield tank and an EWar (jamming or warp scrambling) setup at the same time. Their ships generally have a high CPU output to mirror their focusing and have the largest number of missile hardpoints (and smallest number of gun hardpoints). Missile launchers don't need as much power to operate as guns and as such powergrid output on Caldari ships is lower. The Caldari stealth bomber has an additional launcher slot compared to other races. Their ships have average dronebay sizes and their speed is pretty comparable to other races. Missile launchers' rate of fire is slower but this is compensated by a perfect hit rate (defender missiles are all but worthless - they often do not destroy missiles on their own) which means there is no need to carefully control your transversal velocity in combat as gun-using races are forced to do. The Caldari freighter is the largest freighter in existence.

Amarr
Amarr have the strongest armour tanks in the game - their large capacitor , numerous low slots and high armour hitpoints give them an edge as all their tanking components operate in low slots. This does give them a slight disadvantage as damage modifications also operate from low slots, while their lack of med slots means that their ability to use EWar is lessened. Their ships are also slightly slower. Their lasers have a high capacitor requirement and do the lowest effective damage but are the most accurate, track the fastest and have the highest optimal range. Their frequency crystals allow them to very easily change the amount of damage they do (not change damage type, however) as well as the capacitor need per shot and the range of each shot. Lasers have a decent rate of fire, which means they often have a poor alpha-strike damage compared to other guns. The Amarr deep space transport (the Impel) has the largest cargohold available to all the industrial class ships.

Gallente
Gallente have strong but average armour tanks. Their module slots are more evenly distributed which gives them slightly better EWar abilities while a few of their ships receive a bonus to capacitor use for microwarpdrives. This makes their ships fast in combat which in turn gives them an edge to use blasters, which sacrifice range (the shortest range of any weapon) for massive damage. At the same time, they have the largest drone bays and some of their ships receive bonus to drone damage. As drones act autonomously (and are very hard to hit) jamming a gallente ship will not neutralise it. Some gallente ships make excellent EWar platforms.

Minmatar
Minmatar have weaker tanks (they use a mixture of shield and armour tanking) but make up for it with high speed and powerful weapons. Autocannons have very high rate of fire and the large falloff means they are effective at comparatively high ranges (large autocannons easily hit targets up to 15km away - by comparison, large pulse lasers would struggle to hit at 10km on highest damage setting). Artillery cannons, conversely, have very low rates of fire (most missile users will get two or three volleys off before howitzer users can fire again) but also have extremely high damage. These guns also have low optimal ranges with high falloffs but because rate of fire is so low, it is far more noticable when a shot misses compared to autocannons. Having said that, the alpha strike from a ship using artillery cannons is usually enough to kill anything smaller than a battlecruiser. Minmatar ships are also the fastest available and their industrial "Mammoth" is the largest T1 industrial class ship. Their ships also look like they were thrown together at the last minute on Scrapheap Challenge.

[NEO|Phyte]

Finally got to use my Moa today. Thus far, I have decided that it is all kinds of awesome.

[The Evil Thing]

Ah, the Moa. For those "don't hate me because I'm beautiful" types.

[TheTick]

Ok, well, I played for a few hours, and, while it was pretty impressive for awhile, it got boring after I entered combat for the first time. the enemy wouldn't die. :(

FYI, make sure if you use guns that you check what your best range is and keep the enemy at that range. Judicious use of missiles help with that also. :)

[Karsh]

I played EVE for a while about 7 months ago... It was pretty fun until I had my second Battlecruiser (can't remember what it was called) blown up in a Rank III mission because the servers decided to lag. I had a bunch of Arbalests (Heavies and Assaults) and whatnot hooked up to it, a really good shield boost and so forth... I was out maybe 200-300 million ISK and was stuck in an unarmed Caracal, so I stopped playing.

[The Evil Thing]

Ouch. And I thought I'd done badly with 600 million lost over 18 months. In PvE... :smallfrown: