[3.5] Rogue starting advice

[hiddengecko]

So, I've never really played D&D before, but I've got a chance to join a campaign run by a friend of mine. I've mostly figured out how to build a character, I think - some GURPS experience paid off - and settled on a Tiefling Rogue, in part for RP reasons and in part because I'm shallow and like the idea.

I'd like some build advice, and my DM doesn't like having to answer my incessant optimization questions, so please bear with my nubbery!

The level adjustment has been houseruled out for most races, so I decided to stick with the normal, Native Outsider Tiefling rather than the Lesser Tiefling since it'd buy me a few spell immunities.

From the sound of it, the campaign will be set at least initially in a forest, investigating some unknown miasma that threatens it. My character is an operative from Neverwinter sent to investigate the possible threat to potential Orcish allies, as I understand it - posing your class treasure-hunting, stabhappy scoundrel to the rest of the party, naturally, as they aren't invested in her objectives and likely wouldn't trust her on account of them.

Stats are:
11 STR
20 DEX
17 CON
18 INT
WIS 14
CHA 12

As for skills, I have 5 ranks in:
Balance
Bluff
Diplomacy
Disable Device
Hide
Listen
Move Silently
Open Lock
Search
Spot
Tumble
Use Magic Device

I also have one rank in 5 Knowledge skills to qualify for the Collector of Stories skill trick, and one rank in Disguise, as well - presumably for the Avenger/Assassin PrC later on.

I took the Murkey-Eyed and Shaky flaws, as well as the Quick trait. I also took the Penetrating Strike ACF, replacing Trap Sense.

For Feats, I have
Weapon Finesse
Two-Weapon Fighting
Craven
Exotic Weapon Proficiency

The Exotic Weapon Proficiency is for a pair of Crescent Knives, which doubles my attacks per turn for some awesome synergy with Sneak Attack.

Am I doing this right so far?

Also, I'm told Fighter dips are a good bet for Rogues on account of the bonus feats. Would it be prudent to drop TWF and get Darkstalker instead, (I figure it's best to not have Hide arbitrarily not work on a bunch of enemies starting out, and forest critters can probably smell me) and regain TWF at 4th level with a dip in Fighter?

Also, the Evasion -> Spell Reflect ACF. If I multiclass into Avenger/Assassin, I'll regain Evasion anyway. Is Spell Reflect worth it? I've found the prospect of eventually getting this character some mage-hunter feats like Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Concealment with a Ring of Blinking rather fascinating, and Spell Reflect seems like it would stack well with these.

Besides, Pierce Magical Concealment would likely minimize the drawbacks of Murky-Eyed, particularly combined with a Tiefling's natural Darkvision.

Any advice? Especially on multiclassing; I'm not where where I ought to put my levels after this.

[Gavinfoxx]

What ECL were you told to be?

Have you read this?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6992.0

How about this?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233

[Grod_The_Giant]

It looks pretty solid to me.

A one or two-level fighter dip for the bonus feats and BAB rarely hurts. On the other hand, you can probably wait until level 6 for Darkstalker-- you generally don't run into exotic senses at low levels. Alternately, you might put off Craven instead-- you're not getting that much bonus damage out of it yet, and things at low levels tend to be fragile enough that you don't need the extra damage.

[hiddengecko]

What ECL were you told to be?

Have you read this?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6992.0

How about this?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233

I'm aware of the Lesser Tiefling variant, and offered use it instead. However, for races with an LA as small as +1, she has elected to simply do away with/ignore them utterly, so I went with a normal Tiefling. I might as well get the benefits of the Native Outsider type if it doesn't cost me anything extra.

And yes, I have read A Fistful of D6! It's an excellent thread and helped me out a great deal. Still, I had a hard time extrapolating what a normal build would be, level-progression-wise.



It looks pretty solid to me.

A one or two-level fighter dip for the bonus feats and BAB rarely hurts. On the other hand, you can probably wait until level 6 for Darkstalker-- you generally don't run into exotic senses at low levels. Alternately, you might put off Craven instead-- you're not getting that much bonus damage out of it yet, and things at low levels tend to be fragile enough that you don't need the extra damage.

Alright, thanks. Well, currently, Craven does 12 additional damage, not 3 - assuming all my attacks hit, of course. I thought about multiclassing into Swashbuckler with Daring Outlaw a bit later, mostly because of Insightful Strike. Should I take a level of Swashbuckler sooner, though, for a free Weapon Finesse? The drawback is that I would lose the Penetrating Strike ACF until my next Rogue level.

[herrhauptmann]

You're level 3 right? You should have 6 ranks in your maxed out class skills, and 3 in your maxed crossclass skills. With a total of 12 maxed out skills.
You've got 12 skills at 5 ranks, and 5 skills with 1 rank. The total isn't quite adding up to 72 by my count. Am I missing something?


Where is the Crescent Knife? Something that doubles your attacks is freakin amazing, and honestly makes me wonder if you're reading it right. (You've shown good knowledge so far, but it happens)


Besides, Pierce Magical Concealment would likely minimize the drawbacks of Murky-Eyed, particularly combined with a Tiefling's natural Darkvision.
Don't forget that PMC requires blindfight, and it won't do anything to help you ignore your murky eyes.


to disregard the miss chance granted by spells or spell-like abilities such as darkness, blur, invisibility, obscuring mist, ghostform (see page 109), and spells when used to create concealment effects (such as a wizard using permanent image to fill a corridor with illusory fire and smoke). In addition, when facing a creature protected by mirror image, you can immediately pick out the real creature from its figments. Your ability to ignore the miss chance granted by magical concealment doesn't grant you any ability to ignore nonmagical concealment (so you would still have a 20% miss chance against an invisible creature hiding in fog, for example).

[hiddengecko]

I have a couple skill points left over, but the skill trick also costs 2 points. Most of my knowledge skills aren't class, and I only need one rank in them for Collector of Stories.

The Crescent Knife is an exotic weapon from...I believe it's Dragon Magazine 175.
(Link: http://kaos-incorporated.com/creepyguyinawhitevan/dnd/D&D%203rd%20Edition%20(Dungeons%20and%20Dragons)%20-%20New%20Exotic%20Weapons%20(Dragon%20Magazine%20% 23275).pdf )

It does two attacks, each of which are resolved seperately, but each only does 1d3 and it has a poor crit range compared to the kukri or even normal daggers. Still, that's double the sneak attacks, and double your fun. 8D

[herrhauptmann]

I have a couple skill points left over, but the skill trick also costs 2 points. Most of my knowledge skills aren't class, and I only need one rank in them for Collector of Stories.

The Crescent Knife is an exotic weapon from...I believe it's Dragon Magazine 175.
(Link: http://kaos-incorporated.com/creepyguyinawhitevan/dnd/D&D%203rd%20Edition%20(Dungeons%20and%20Dragons)%20-%20New%20Exotic%20Weapons%20(Dragon%20Magazine%20% 23275).pdf )

It does two attacks, each of which are resolved seperately, but each only does 1d3 and it has a poor crit range compared to the kukri or even normal daggers. Still, that's double the sneak attacks, and double your fun. 8D
Well I'll be...
That's nice. No penalties for the double attacks like monks get when they flurry?

There's a feat for Shadow Hand in ToB. It counts the same as weapon finesse for purposes of prereqs, but adds I think dex to damage. Downside is that I think you need a few SH maneuvers. Easy solution is to multiclass to swordsage in a few more levels, maybe at Rogue8/swordsage 1. That'll give you an IL of 5, which is third level maneuvers and stances. Should grant you the DimDoor-type maneuver.

[Chilingsworth]

With that int score, you might consider multiclassing into wizard and going with arcane trickster. Even better, switch your int and dex and do that.