Pathfinder/ D&D 3.5 Dragonslaying

[Fosco the Swift]

Do to the reletive similarity between dragonslaying in both PF and D&D I want to make sure I get both groups opinions on this. I'm looking for help on creating a great dragonslaying character or party. Also I wish to include great spells for dragonslaying, including homemade ones. Styles, ideas or strategies for slaying dragons is greatly appreciated. To keep ideas around the same area assume the dragon is Age Catagory Adult and a Black Dragon, as I find those are the most common.

[Kane0]

Does this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284143) help?

Aside from that, you can find some good stuff in the 3rd ed Draconomicon and Dragon Magic books if you can get hold of them. There is a section on fighting them (Rule 1: Know what type your fighting. Rule 2: Limit their mobility, but not your own. etc) and some good prestige classes, items and spells you can use.

[Fosco the Swift]

Good tips and I really like the changes to the Dragonslayer class, but what about a party that is just about to fight a Young Adult Black Dragon? No time for new classes or magic items. Any spells that you would strongly reccomend for a Conjuerer Wizard? My groups been fighting it and we've been having trouble because it always stays in really open areas and large rooms. One of my characters has a type of animal companion called an Eidolon that can have immunity to acid and DR/5, but would be torn apart if it fought toe to toe with a dragon. Its medium sized, has a 10ft reach bite and can fly. Any reccomendations there?

[Snowbluff]

Rangers would be cool to fight a dragon with. Favored enemy and usage of ranged weapons.

[Kane0]

Hmm.

Protection from energy: Acid would be a good start, as would anything that increases your reflex saves and AC. A dragon might have decent AC but their Touch AC is never great, look for spells and abilities that are ranged touch attacks. Also try and get some source of DR and miss chance. Displacement is a favorite, as is Blur.

Try to find out what save it isn't good at, and hammer it. Looks for spells that debilitate rather than damage, since damage is easy to achieve when they are heavily dex-damaged or immobilized.

Don't enter into melee unless you really need to. Even the fighter should heed this rule. A dragon has a lot of natural attacks and good reach, most characters will be torn up in melee range. Stay back and plink from a distance so he will have to move to you for an attack. Try to get some rough terrain in the way to avoid charges. Cover helps too.

Spread your party out a little so the dragon will have to maneuver or wait to use his breath weapon effectively.

Spells and abilities that hamper movement would be a must if you are forced to fight in the open. A flying dragon is very difficult to beat, especially since they can strafe you.

Don't try to sneak past or up to it. It just won't work.

On a non-mechanic approach, appeal to the dragon's sense of pride and/or greed. Lure them with sacrifices, gold and/or supplication into a position where you have an easier time fighting them, and they have a harder time retreating.

Edit: Water breathing or some other way to act underwater is a must too. If you are fighting him on his terms (which you shouldn't under any circumstances) he will likely take advantage of his underwater action ability.

Edit 2: Your a conjurer, so spam summons. Pick creatures with acid resist and that can punch through it's AC & DR if you can. Every round he spends dealing with expendable summons is a round he isn't swallowing your paladin.

[Bhaakon]

A ranged PF paladin could put down a dragon quickly. 2x level to damage versus evil dragons with all those ranged attack, ouch. Ditto for gunslinger, which can be optimized for huge amounts of ranged damage. Ranger was already mentioned.

I'd also through in Witch, which, besides being a full caster with a decent spell list, has the benefit of hexes with high saves DC that bypass spell resistance. A level-appropriate Witch could drop a DC 20 (or higher) slumber hex on that adult black dragon with a decent chance of ending the encounter outright.

Alchemist with fast bomb and a confusion bomb would also work (no-save confusion plus BoatloadD6 damage per turn).

[Keneth]

Let's see...


A ranged PF paladin could put down a dragon quickly. 2x level to damage versus evil dragons with all those ranged attack, ouch.

The 2*level to damage is only on the first successful attack. Not that a properly optimized ranged paladin couldn't take down a dragon.


A level-appropriate Witch could drop a DC 20 (or higher) slumber hex on that adult black dragon with a decent chance of ending the encounter outright.

All dragons are immune to sleep effects.


Alchemist with fast bomb and a confusion bomb would also work (no-save confusion plus BoatloadD6 damage per turn).

Confusion is pretty badass, but in this case it's a good way to get your alchemist killed as a confused creature automatically attacks the last creature that attacked it.

And you better hope the dragon doesn't have scintillating scales on it, or you'll just piss it off. :smallbiggrin:

[Bhaakon]

All dragons are immune to sleep effects.

Bah, you're right. Just have to go with ice tomb, then. I don't believe you can coup de grace the dragon (since breaking the ice ends the unconsciousness, which dragons aren't immune to), but it gives you plenty of time to set up a hard to survive scenario.


Confusion is pretty badass, but in this case it's a good way to get your alchemist killed as a confused creature automatically attacks the last creature that attacked it.

That's an easily exploitable way to force the dragon to do what you want it to, like bouncing around the battlefield provoking attacks of opportunity and not using its full attack.


And you better hope the dragon doesn't have scintillating scales on it, or you'll just piss it off.

I don't think that exists in Pathfinder. It's not coming up on the SRD, at least.

[Keneth]

Bah, you're right. Just have to go with ice tomb, then.

Good luck with that, it's a Fort save ability, plus dragons can't be paralyzed, so it's questionable if the effect would even take hold.


That's an easily exploitable way to force the dragon to do what you want it to, like bouncing around the battlefield provoking attacks of opportunity and not using its full attack.

Attack doesn't mean "rush in and whack your opponent," confusion doesn't reduce your mental capacity. It's safe to assume the dragon will attack you to the best of its ability.


I don't think that exists in Pathfinder. It's not coming up on the SRD, at least.

Nope, but this isn't a Pathfinder-exclusive question. It's a spell that converts your natural armor bonus to deflection bonus.

[Saintheart]

Shivering Touch, Frostburn.

[Fosco the Swift]

All very good tips, I'm kind of looking forward to this fight now. For those Pathfinder Players out there with the Advanced Player's Guide, what would you reccomend for a Summoner and his Eidolon? My eidolon's described above.
As for the "non mechanic" technique, I need a specific recomendation for the setting I'm in. Currently the dragon is flying in a very large room in a dungeon my characters are in, but we a near a door that leads to a hallway "T". One way leads to a medium sized chamber while the other leads to a similar chamber except that the two pillars supporting the ceiling are damaged, one of them being completely destroyed. Any suggestions on gettign the Dragon in there and possibly collapsing the room on him?