Mind Games

[AntiTrust]

I need playgrounders more clever than I to help me come up with a set of rules the players will find rewarding to thwart.

Here is how its going down. The players are going to get themselves put under the mental whammy of a particularly powerful enchanter. It'll be a custom spell, but its essentially a dominate person, but those dominated have more agency of action than the spell, they just can't refuse anything said enchanter tells them.

The enchanter will believe himself to be quite clever so before sending them out to do his nefarious plans he'll set up some rules for them to follow.

What I'd like from the playgrounders are some rules that he might come up with (for example, never resist any spell I cast on you) to ensure the party never breaks free from his mental control over them.

I'd also be interested in, once some people come up with rules, how the party might get around them to eventually free themselves.

The goal is for the players to outsmart this guy and break free, leaving themselves feeling quite proud and smug that they bested him.

[Platymus Pus]

1.You will always do my bidding word for word
2.You will do blah blah blah?
3.You will come back after me after doing blah blah blah
4.You will kill yourselves once the task is finished

[Eurus]

Ordering creatures to voluntarily fail saves against spells is a relatively problematic and iffy rules interpretation, to be honest. I mean you can do it if you want, just make sure you fully consider the implications, since you can easily keep things permanently under absolute control.

[AntiTrust]

Ordering creatures to voluntarily fail saves against spells is a relatively problematic and iffy rules interpretation, to be honest. I mean you can do it if you want, just make sure you fully consider the implications, since you can easily keep things permanently under absolute control.

I actually didn't realize that interpretation was iffy at all. People voluntarily don't make saving throws for all kinds of spells in game having a command be never refusing a spell cast by the enchanter seemed rather standard for people who use mind control abilities.

Even if they can't figure a way out its not hard to create events that will free them. It won't be as fun if I have to do it that way, but its not my intention to permanently enslave them, just to make them perceive it as such.

[Arbane]

So, after all the players quit in disgust en masse, what's your next game going to be?

Semi-seriously, if you play this enchanter as having properly wizard-level supergenius, he won't have much trouble coming up with a set of orders that the PCs can't wiggle out of without being bailed out by another NPC. yaaaay.

[AntiTrust]

So, after all the players quit in disgust en masse, what's your next game going to be?

Semi-seriously, if you play this enchanter as having properly wizard-level supergenius, he won't have much trouble coming up with a set of orders that the PCs can't wiggle out of without being bailed out by another NPC. yaaaay.

If that was the case no wizard ever would ever be defeated ever ever ever. His plans would always go flawlessly. Since obviously thats not the case, I'm not worrying about it.

[Arbane]

If that was the case no wizard ever would ever be defeated ever ever ever. His plans would always go flawlessly. Since obviously thats not the case, I'm not worrying about it.

Okay, here's some orders:

"1. Obey all my other orders.
2. Make no effort to resist any spells I use on you.
3. Resist any efforts to break my control over you.
4. Kill anyone who tries to break my control over you.
5. Kill anyone who tries to stop you from following my orders.
6. After you've completed the orders or find them impossible to fulfill, return to me.
7. Ignore previous orders if I issue new orders that contradict them.
8. If any of your comrades start acting against my previous orders, kill them.
9. None of you are allowed to use any spells or abilities that give immunity or resistance to my spell, Rolf's Repulsive Railroad.
10. Don't let anyone know you are under my control.

Now, go burn down that orphanage. Then return here."

How are they going to weasel out of this? Do PCs take an alignment hit for committing evil deeds while mind-controlled? How will they deal with all the people who SAW them burn down the orphanage. massacre the good guys, and steal the royal crown, or whatever?

And why should the players not ragequit? Oh, sure, you can TELL them this will 'only last until you figure out how to get loose', but barring the Idiot Ball being in the wizard's hands, that could be a very long time if the player's can't read your mind, and they WILL think you are jerking them around. Because you are, really.

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Edit to add: Okay, putting aside my opinion that this is a TERRIBLE idea, and trying to find ways the PCs can weasel out of it:

They find themselves in a situation where Protection From Evil (or Mind Blank, if they're high enough level) would be useful - oh, wait, that'd violate order 9.
Manipulate their enemies to get Dispel Magic cast on them. Enough buffs might do that, but the odds are good the buffs will go first.
Get imprisoned somehow, in a way that will keep them from getting back to have the Railroad re-cast when it runs out. The obvious problem is that they will STILL be imprisoned.
Get turned into undead. Talk about a cure worse than the disease....

(Added number 10 - without it, they can talk loudly about who's jerking their strings in hope that someone ELSE will kill them.)

[AntiTrust]

I feel like perhaps you've been burned by megalomaniac dm's Arbane because it feels like maybe there's some fire directed towards me. Maybe you've confused me with the Ao-Sue dm from the SUE Files. The enchanter isn't me, he's not some dmpc of mine and I'm not trying to pit my intellect versus theirs. I want a smug enchanter who creates some rules he thinks are fool proof and then be proven wrong by having my very clever players wiggle out of it. Hopefully at such a time or in such a way as to really stick it to the enchanter.

Regarding how they'll weasel out of your rules I'll quote the first line of my original post "I need playgrounders more clever than I to help me come up with a set of rules the players will find rewarding to thwart."

If the rules aren't rewarding to thwart as your solutions seem to imply, then the rules themselves don't fit the purpose.

The alignment issue is not relevant in this instance because nothing he's going to have them do will shift their current alignments. Burning orphanages although a nice extreme inflammatory (hehe) example of how this could go wrong is read loud and clear.

[Arbane]

I just don't think there is ANY way this is going to go well.

[evisiron]

Asimov the enchanter:

1. Don't harm me, or by inaction, allow me to come to harm.
2. Obey my orders, unless it conflicts with the first Command.
3. Don't allow yourselves to come to harm, unless it conflicts with the first 2 Commands.

By taking the pop culture route, the players have a resource to draw upon on how to escape it.

Personally as a player I would try to force the situation into a loop or conflict that can't be resolved, causing the spell to be broken in the way a robot could short circuit.

[Platymus Pus]

I actually didn't realize that interpretation was iffy at all. People voluntarily don't make saving throws for all kinds of spells in game having a command be never refusing a spell cast by the enchanter seemed rather standard for people who use mind control abilities.

Even if they can't figure a way out its not hard to create events that will free them. It won't be as fun if I have to do it that way, but its not my intention to permanently enslave them, just to make them perceive it as such.

Actually that's what you should do, permanently enslave them.
It'll be a new one that's for sure.:smallamused:
But really if they can't figure it out make the wizard mistake one of his actions through orders.
Or have something hostile and would have tried to kill the party anyway dispel someone.

[Captainspork]

Is there more to your campaign than the dominate person aspect of it? I think more info might help people understand what exactly you plan to do with your story. And what is your party composition? If you are going this route, I would suggest you make sure your player's characters are smart enough to figure this out, unless you don't mind meta gaming..

Having said all that, I don't think it's a terrible Idea If it's what you want to do. Your enchanter wouldn't be the first villain to overlook something important due to overconfidence.

You could go with the "short circuit" model if you like. I think there is another way that seems to fit what you are saying. If you have ever played Bioshock, doing something like that sounds like what you are thinking. Read up (possible spoilers if you haven't played it but plan to) on that then read on.

I think the best approach would be to make the fact that they are under a spell not obvious. Start the campaign with the PCs following the enchanters orders. As long as what he asks isn't unreasonable they wouldn't suspect anything to be immediately wrong. Give subtle hints when they start to get sidetracked (as all PCs do). Something like "you have this sensation that you really need to accomplish.".. whatever their assigned task is. Keep going this way, until they get to a point where what they want to do is in conflict with what he asks, and see if they can figure out why they are essentially bound to his commands. Then take it from there wherever you want to go with it. Just a thought.

Having used related spells in my games on PCs (I.e. mindrape), I would make sure you are very careful in how you go about doing this. Remember, as cool as an idea as it is, your PCs need to be having fun too, or its kind of pointless. Make sure your PCs would enjoy this type of game as well, especially if this is the backbone of your game. That's my two cents anyways... Hope that helps.