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View Full Version : Maxing this Sublime Chord's CL



Nettlekid
2013-09-01, 12:05 AM
Hey Playground, I started a similar thread a while ago about this same build, but it's been tweaked further and I've begun to start exploiting its already high CL, so now I want to get it through the roof. The build is level 21, and exploits Bloodline levels in numerous ways.

It goes (not exactly in order but more or less so) Bard 3/Spellthief 1/Fatemaker 1/Windwright Captain 5/Sublime Chord 2/War Weaver 5/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4. The goal of the build is to have a magic enthusiast captain of an airship (hence the Windwright Captain) who holds to the bardic theme of buffing allies, but does so with extreme effectiveness due to War Weaver and Spellguard of Silverymoon turning the best personal buffs into group buffs. I plan to abuse Unfettered Heroism and Wand Surge to cast spells from staves, so spells known isn't an issue, nor are spell slots per day really. The Bloodline levels are there to allow War Weaver to pass up to 8th level spells and boost the various CLs.

The way I see the CL now, if I have it right, is:
Bard CL: 3+3 (Windwright Captain)+3 (Bloodline)=9
Fatemaker CL: 1+3 (Bloodline)=4
Sublime Chord CL: 9 (Bard)+10 (Sublime Chord and PrCs)+3 (Bloodline)=22
Effective Spellthief Level (for Master Spellthief): 1+3 (Bloodline)=4
Universal Arcane CL (set by Master Spelltheif): 9+4+22+4=39
I then boost this further with Create Magic Tattoo (+1), Reserves of Strength (+3), Elder Giant Magic (+3), Suffer the Flesh (+6, boosted by RoS), a Ring of Arcane Might (+1), and an Orange Ioun Stone (+1), for a total of 54. I include Reserves of Strength and Elder Giant Magic because the important time for my CL to be high is when I'm buffing in the morning, so I can afford to take the time for EGM and Fast Heal the damage from RoS.

Anyway, 54 is really quite good by my reckoning, but I'd like to see it get even higher. I know the biggest single boost to CL is probably Consumptive Field, but that runs the problem of either having to kill 27 small things every day if I Persist that first, or getting it on my spell list somehow and using Permanent Emanation to keep it up always, in which case I have an incredibly high Str and that's not the kind of cheese I'm looking for. It's also quite evil, and although I'm willing to use Evil spells for my buffs and the like (Devil's Ego for example) I want to steer clear of anything that would actually be pretty darn evil, like killing tons of tiny things. I guess maybe I could summon Lemures and kill those? If that's what you suggest, then maybe I'll look into it.

So, apart from what I've listed already, how best to bump up my CL? I'd prefer tools for big bumps rather than little +1s and +2s. I don't have too many feats to spare, but I'm sure I could manage to free up a little space if it would help. So far it seems like Master Spellthief is giving me a great deal of help, but I'm willing to drop Spellthief and Fatemaker if I could pick up two levels in another class that would help this.

Snowbluff
2013-09-01, 12:06 AM
What would happen if you used Ultimate Magus?

Nettlekid
2013-09-01, 12:16 AM
What would happen if you used Ultimate Magus?

I'd probably be able to make my Sublime Chord CL...um...Well, say there's Bard 3, CL 6, and then there's Sublime Chord 2, CL 5 (before adding stuff on.) Then if I took Ultimate Magus 10, the Bard CL becomes 16, and Sublime Chord gains 7, so it's 12, plus the Bard's 16 to make 28, and then the Ultimate Magus' own bonus gives +4 to each, so Bard is 20 and Sublime Chord is 36. I'm not sure how Master Spellthief would interact with it. Something weird would happen, I think.

But the point is moot because Ultimate Magus 10 would rip out two of Windwright Captain, War Weaver, or Spellguard, and that ruins the design of the character I'm going for.

gorfnab
2013-09-01, 01:00 AM
Would a level of Knight of the Weave affect your CL significantly?

Nettlekid
2013-09-01, 01:13 AM
Would a level of Knight of the Weave affect your CL significantly?

I've looked into that in the past, but never quite figured it all out. The short answer is yes, I'm sure a Knight of the Weave level would affect my CL significantly. It might create an infinite loop, or...well, I'm not sure. Let me try to work it out. If we take the build I have now, but replace Fatemaker with Knight of the Weave, we have:

Bard CL 9, as before.
Effective Spellthief level 4, as before.
Now, the decision is whether or not to take the KotW level first and then base Sublime Chord off of that, or base Sublime Chord off of Bard and take KotW later. If we take KotW first, then its CL is 4+9=13. Then Sublime Chord's is 13+13=26. But because KotW bases its CL on all your other caster levels*, it now grows to 13+26=39. But this raises SC higher. Repeat forever.

The one thing I'm not sure of about that is that it does that "caster levelS" as opposed to "caster level". Does "caster levels" mean levels in a caster class, as opposed to the concept of a CL? If so, then doing this would just make KotW's CL equal to 9+4=13, Sublime Chord becomes 26, and then because you have 13 effective SC levels, KotW's CL becomes 26, which then raises SC's level again by the same 13 to become 39, but then it ends there. Then with Master Spellthief, you'd add the 9 from Bard, 4 from Spellthief, 26 from KotW, and 39 from SC and get 78 total for all your casting classes? Is that right?

If you take Sublime Chord first then you get something similar to above, but without the potential for an infinite loop based on wording.

So if my second set of reasoning is correct, then it would be quite a great boon. But I'm not sure it works that way.

Unrelated, I've been thinking more about (Greater) Consumptive Field, and I think that whatever I do with this, I'll add that in. Using the Spellguard's Selective Spell ability (first time I've ever thought to do anything with that) I'll make a Persisted Greater Consumptive Field that only affects Demons. Then I'll summon lots of Lemures (well, 1/2 my existing CL) and let their piddling 9 HP selves die in my field, raising my CL by that much, without worrying about accidentally killing every <10 HP Commoner I chat with later that day.

EDIT: Huh, Consumptive Field interacts weird with RoS and EGM. Since I can boost my CL when I cast it, the bonus to my CL takes them into account. But my CL then decreases, so the bonus is actually higher than 1/2 my current CL. For example, if my CL is 48, but I use RoS, EGM, and Song of Arcane Power when I cast Consumptive Field, it's CL is 58. So the bonus I can get is +29 CL. But my CL was 48, so now my total CL is 77. If I use RoS, EGM and SoAP (haha, I like the abbreviation), I can pump it up to 87 total. Not bad.