Solarian League (SKM) vs Galactic Empire (SW)

[Rakaydos]

Positing that these two entities are roughly comparable, given they both apparently are able to go toe to toe with the Imperium of Man in their own vs threads.

So, taking the two largest entities of each galaxy, positing roughly size and capability. Who would win?

[The Glyphstone]

Massively overbalanced in favor of the Empire. There are more Imperial-class Star Destroyers than there are Solarian superdreadnaughts in the Reserve+active duty, I don't know about their weapon strength, but hyperdrive is immeasurably, incomparably more flexible and faster in terms of FTL maneuvering. Solarian ships could vastly outclass Imperial ships on a one-to-one basis, and the strategic flexibility of hyperdrive alone would still carry the day.

[Tavar]

This is difficult. Star Wars almost certainly wins the strategic speed competition, but their tactical speed is unknown, and the ranges of their weapons is similarly vague(it's shown to be low, but I'm not certain if that's artistic license or accurate).

The biggest problem is that their ships have pretty ludicrous ratings for weapon energy(or, at least, they did). That means that the only weapon H-verse ships are likely going to be able to use effectively is missiles actually reaching contact with the ships(at least regarding capital ships).

On the positive side for the Hverse, the SW shields are, I believe, somewhat vulnerable to heavy gravity manipulation, so Impellers should be usable against them.

Oh, and SW fighters can, for the most part, go home. Swarming isn't really going to be too viable, and their weapons seem to require point blank ranges, meaning the H-verse can just corkscrew and kill them all if they don't want to waste lasers on them.

Ground side, things are more positive: I would say that Hverse Powered Armor troops are about equivalent to Dark Troops, but I would say Hverse ground weapons and tactics are superior to Imperial tactics(largely because Imp tactics tend to be more focused on intimidation).

The real game changer would be the Super Weapons. The Empire gets tons of those, especially in the EU. Some of them would likely be less dangerous than others(the Death Stars would likely be a bit less effective, while the Sun Crusher would be absolutely devastating).

[The Glyphstone]

Impellers aren't really viable as an offensive weapon outside of ramming-type tactics (unlike, say, the Schlockverse where gravity is both offensive and defensively used).

As for tactical speed...Wookiepedia says the Imperial Star Destroyer has a max acceleration of 2,300G. Their comparable opposite numbers, Scientist-class superdreadnaughts, have an accel of roughly 400G. So in addition to being better-armed at energy range, the SDs can run rings around their enemy both strategically and tactically. They can outrun destroyers with an accel of 700-800g in addition to outmassing them by a factor of 15 or so.

[Rakaydos]

Hmm... perhaps I misjudged.

At risk of reviving an old discussion, if the honorverse has been considered to take on the IoM, at least on a fleet to fleet basis, and the GE can take the honorverse, how did the IoM handle the GE?

[The Glyphstone]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195298 - Thread 1, In Which It Begins.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196876 - Thread 2, In Which It Continues.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201620 - Thread 3, In Which Star Trek Has Officially Thrown In The Towel.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11982029 - Thread 4, In Which No Clear Winner Was Found So We Bring Back Trek And Start Throwing Random Other Universes At The Fight In A Guest-Star Format.

[Tavar]

Impellers aren't really viable as an offensive weapon outside of ramming-type tactics (unlike, say, the Schlockverse where gravity is both offensive and defensively used).

As for tactical speed...Wookiepedia says the Imperial Star Destroyer has a max acceleration of 2,300G. Their comparable opposite numbers, Scientist-class superdreadnaughts, have an accel of roughly 400G. So in addition to being better-armed at energy range, the SDs can run rings around their enemy both strategically and tactically. They can outrun destroyers with an accel of 700-800g in addition to outmassing them by a factor of 15 or so.

Ramming is what I was talking about. Kilometer or larger bands of gravity that will tear apart any matter the touch are a useful weapon. The only reason they aren't used in universe is the interaction between two wedges.

But, if the ships are that fast, well, that pretty much settles it. If either Tactical or strategic speed is better there can be a real fight, but if both are better? You need both equipment that's otherwise orders of magnitude better, or large enough numbers that you can offset the advantages.

[The Glyphstone]

And the Empire also has the numbers, in addition to the tactical and strategic speed....so yeah. Not a hard matchup to judge, sadly.

[Rakaydos]

Hmm.. while star wars does have their incredibly high strength weapons, they DO have significantly shorter ranges.

Is that "Significantly shorter" actually within the 300km wedge? because if so, every ship under way is it's own interdictor...

[hamishspence]

Hmm.. while star wars does have their incredibly high strength weapons, they DO have significantly shorter ranges.

Unless you invoke the much-disputed Incredible Cross Sections series of books - that gives Venator-class Star Destroyers turbolasers that can track and hit targets at 10 light-minutes (nearly 180 million km).

But since they've also been "out of range" when what looks like a few hundred km from their targets, in The Clone Wars, I figure that's not entirely to be trusted.

[The Glyphstone]

Unless you invoke the much-disputed Incredible Cross Sections series of books - that gives Venator-class Star Destroyers turbolasers that can track and hit targets at 10 light-minutes (nearly 180 million km).

But since they've also been "out of range" when what looks like a few hundred km from their targets, in The Clone Wars, I figure that's not entirely to be trusted.

Ah, good ol' Curtis Saxton, he of the 'melt a planet's crust down to 1 meter depth in a matter of hours' firepower figures.

[hamishspence]

Indeed. And the books got redone as a compilation, twice- first as Complete Cross Sections and then as Complete Vehicles- without any significant changes (though Complete Vehicles did add a few new vehicles).

Interestingly, that range outranges the Death Star 1 superlaser in those books- which was given a range of 47 million km.

[HamHam]

Unless you invoke the much-disputed Incredible Cross Sections series of books - that gives Venator-class Star Destroyers turbolasers that can track and hit targets at 10 light-minutes (nearly 180 million km).

But since they've also been "out of range" when what looks like a few hundred km from their targets, in The Clone Wars, I figure that's not entirely to be trusted.

Except as was pointed out in the other thread, we apparently are supposed to rate all written material with numbers above anything visual.

So either the Empire gets those ranges or the Imperium gets being able to warp directly into orbit.

[hamishspence]

I'd be OK with warping directly into orbit- at least on rare occasions.

[Tavar]

Except as was pointed out in the other thread, we apparently are supposed to rate all written material with numbers above anything visual.

So either the Empire gets those ranges or the Imperium gets being able to warp directly into orbit.

I'd point out that it's largely a matter of consistency: many books make reference to the fact that you can't warp inside a system, and the only source that seemingly does have such a feat is one that's known to be very loose regarding canon. A work not even made by the primary authors. And, in the case mentioned, it's not even clear that it would be normal: you have both Eldar and someone almost at the level of a Demon Prince working the warp.

Yet in Star Wars, it's tricky, due to most written material seemingly not written with such values in mind. Additionally, Star Wars does have something of an official Canon heirarchy, which places visual works(Films, then TV shows) above written works.

[The Glyphstone]

Except as was pointed out in the other thread, we apparently are supposed to rate all written material with numbers above anything visual.

So either the Empire gets those ranges or the Imperium gets being able to warp directly into orbit.

Star Wars actually has rules for Canonicity tiers, which 40K doesn't, so you can't make this equivalency. And visual evidence from G-canon movies/text from G-canon novelizations outranks anything written in C-canon supplementary material.