Ivy is working for Bozzok

[neothoron]

Ok, I guess it has already been discussed here, but I had been intrigued by someone saying in the comic discussion that Geoff was a mole (or some other kind of agent working against Ian).

So after rereading the Greysky arc in Don't Split the party, here is my guess, based on #609, and #770:

Ian in #770: "How do you think I got tied up in this mess? My sister asked me to come help her and her husband with this rebellion thing."

Bozzok in #609: "A few letters to some friends on the Western Continent were all it took on my part. You know, I still don't know what they wrote to him to get him to rush off."

That theory has bonuses:

* Ian is inclined to trust his sister (as she is family), so such a betrayal would target him in one of his blind spots;
* Ivy smuggles Ian a decent meal each week. On unrelated news, all his escape attempts have failed. What if it is the meals that Ivy prepares that are bugged, in some way that must be renewed regularly? That may imply that Ivy would also be working with some of Tarquin's agents, though.
* Geoff is probably not in the scheme - he has suffered about as much as Ian at this point;
* Ian avoiding Ivy's house on his escape this time, proves pretty appropriate - otherwise he might have been recaught much sooner.

What do you think? My guess is that, it is so obvious that someone else has probably made the suggestion, but I cannot search the forums right now.

Who cares to guess Haley's family is even more screwed-up and broken than was said up to now?

[Kornaki]

A lot of people think that Geoff is the one betraying Ian (by tipping off the guards to his escape attempts). Whether Ivy is in on it or not is hard to tell because we have almost no information on her, but it's definitely been considered by people as a possibility

[FujinAkari]

Not to deflate your sails, but this is a pretty widely accepted theory already :)

Admittedly, Geoff gets more attention than Ivy due to the fact that -he actually shows up in the comic- but Ivy is generally considered in cahoots with him.

[Chad30]

It's likely all but guaranteed that someone Ian trusts is working to keep him there. The bigger question is why? Is it Geoff and Ivy together, or just one, and what's their motivation? hopefully we'll learn soon.

I do think this arc has gone on a bit too long to have Haley trying to find her dad and such, but I would also like to know more about what's going on with Ian.

[BaronOfHell]

No. There never was an Ivy. It was all a conspiracy planned by Bozzok. When Ian was a boy, long before Bozzok was born, Hank was dressed up as a girl and has since been known to Ian as Ivy. If you doubt me, notice how both Ian and Ivy starts with an "I". Clearly an act of Bozzok's brilliance.

Edit: Also we've never seen Hank and Ivy in the same panel ever, clearly there can be no doubt. Bozzok is a genius!

[Chad30]

But that just means we have to ask why did the person who was reincarnated into Bozzok do this?

[HalfTangible]

Ok, I guess it has already been discussed here, but I had been intrigued by someone saying in the comic discussion that Geoff was a mole (or some other kind of agent working against Ian).

So after rereading the Greysky arc in Don't Split the party, here is my guess, based on #609, and #770:

Ian in #770: "How do you think I got tied up in this mess? My sister asked me to come help her and her husband with this rebellion thing."

Bozzok in #609: "A few letters to some friends on the Western Continent were all it took on my part. You know, I still don't know what they wrote to him to get him to rush off."

That theory has bonuses:

* Ian is inclined to trust his sister (as she is family), so such a betrayal would target him in one of his blind spots;
* Ivy smuggles Ian a decent meal each week. On unrelated news, all his escape attempts have failed. What if it is the meals that Ivy prepares that are bugged, in some way that must be renewed regularly? That may imply that Ivy would also be working with some of Tarquin's agents, though.
* Geoff is probably not in the scheme - he has suffered about as much as Ian at this point;
* Ian avoiding Ivy's house on his escape this time, proves pretty appropriate - otherwise he might have been recaught much sooner.

What do you think? My guess is that, it is so obvious that someone else has probably made the suggestion, but I cannot search the forums right now.

Who cares to guess Haley's family is even more screwed-up and broken than was said up to now?

Geoff is definitely in on this scheme - he's the one who's been feeding info to Tarquin on Ian's escape attempts in exchange for his life. That way Ian won't go back to Greysky city and get killed.

[neothoron]

No. There never was an Ivy. It was all a conspiracy planned by Bozzok. When Ian was a boy, long before Bozzok was born, Hank was dressed up as a girl and has since been known to Ian as Ivy. If you doubt me, notice how both Ian and Ivy starts with an "I". Clearly an act of Bozzok's brilliance.

Edit: Also we've never seen Hank and Ivy in the same panel ever, clearly there can be no doubt. Bozzok is a genius!

And both "Ian" and "Ivy" are three letter first names, with two vowels and one consonant! This makes so much sense!

Otherwise, "motive" is for me the main reason why I think that Geoff is honest - it is hard to see what payoff would be worth it for him to get captured with Ian and to be, for all he knew at the time of arrest, doomed. Of course, it can be a red herring, but I like taking things at face value, I think it makes the comic more enjoyable. (And Rich usually keeps things pretty straightforward anyway).

[Gift Jeraff]

Otherwise, "motive" is for me the main reason why I think that Geoff is honest - it is hard to see what payoff would be worth it for him to get captured with Ian and to be, for all he knew at the time of arrest, doomed.

Leaving GP behind for his family?

[neothoron]

Geoff is definitely in on this scheme - he's the one who's been feeding info to Tarquin on Ian's escape attempts in exchange for his life. That way Ian won't go back to Greysky city and get killed.

I was pretty sure that Ian was, until recently, below Tarquin's notice (I guess it was mainly Miron that dealt with him when the matter came up in Tyrinaria).

This motivation ("protecting Ian by preventing him from returning to Greysky City" + "saving his own skin") does not explain why Geoff would:
* Think that the best way of protecting Ian would be to stay captive with him in conditions where they sometimes eat their own microfauna (I mean, simply continuing to run a Rebellion against Tarquin, or telling Ian "Hey, Bozzok wants you to go away, so take care when you return in Greysky" would be enough to protect Ian from Greysky's dangers.)
* Think that the best way to save his own skin would be to stay in prison and to keep Ian there, instead of breaking out with Ian and go into hiding.

For me, it is less believable than just "Geoff is a honest fool", and that Ivy has enough of a beef with Ian to betray him.

[Chad30]

Maybe Ivy thinks Ian is responsible for his wife's death. Though that's probably cliche. Hopefully it would be more complicated than that.

[DiamondHooHaMan]

No. There never was an Ivy. It was all a conspiracy planned by Bozzok. When Ian was a boy, long before Bozzok was born, Hank was dressed up as a girl and has since been known to Ian as Ivy. If you doubt me, notice how both Ian and Ivy starts with an "I". Clearly an act of Bozzok's brilliance.

Edit: Also we've never seen Hank and Ivy in the same panel ever, clearly there can be no doubt. Bozzok is a genius!

to pull that off, he would have to be some kind of tactical genius.....

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/occulto/CREEEED.png

[neothoron]

Leaving GP behind for his family?

Ok, what part of "making a pact with an evil tyranny so that they give GP to my family" seems worth staying in this evil tyranny's prison for? Especially given this tyranny's known trustworthiness?

Seriously, I may be a bit snappy, but I really am open to Geoff's being a traitor, I just can't imagine a motive that is worth his current predicament.

On the other hand, while Ivy is a blank state, given that she is Ian's sister, she could conceivably have shared history that would be worth letting Ian rot in prison. (And her betrayal would not have rewarded her with spending 3 years being miserable in a gladiator prison.)

[Olinser]

Clearly whats going to happen is that Ivy is the human form of Tarquin's lycanthrope teammate.

[TheWolfe]

Isn't it obvious? Ivy is a plant!:smalltongue:

[Bogardan_Mage]

Isn't it obvious? Ivy is a plant!:smalltongue:
Yeah, go ahead and add your Charisma bonus to damage.

[Vinsfeld]

Isn't it obvious? Ivy is a plant!:smalltongue:

*Mind blows*

[littlebum2002]

I certainly hope you're right. I have 100 GP riding on it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298504)

[Giggling Ghast]

Ivy smuggles Ian a meal each week, so sh exists.


Isn't it obvious? Ivy is a plant!:smalltongue:

Love your work.

[Forikroder]

Ok, I guess it has already been discussed here, but I had been intrigued by someone saying in the comic discussion that Geoff was a mole (or some other kind of agent working against Ian).

So after rereading the Greysky arc in Don't Split the party, here is my guess, based on #609, and #770:

Ian in #770: "How do you think I got tied up in this mess? My sister asked me to come help her and her husband with this rebellion thing."

Bozzok in #609: "A few letters to some friends on the Western Continent were all it took on my part. You know, I still don't know what they wrote to him to get him to rush off."

That theory has bonuses:

* Ian is inclined to trust his sister (as she is family), so such a betrayal would target him in one of his blind spots;
* Ivy smuggles Ian a decent meal each week. On unrelated news, all his escape attempts have failed. What if it is the meals that Ivy prepares that are bugged, in some way that must be renewed regularly? That may imply that Ivy would also be working with some of Tarquin's agents, though.
* Geoff is probably not in the scheme - he has suffered about as much as Ian at this point;
* Ian avoiding Ivy's house on his escape this time, proves pretty appropriate - otherwise he might have been recaught much sooner.

What do you think? My guess is that, it is so obvious that someone else has probably made the suggestion, but I cannot search the forums right now.

Who cares to guess Haley's family is even more screwed-up and broken than was said up to now?

Geoff is definently in the scheme, when Ian escapes hell probably bring Geoff with him based on how badly he wanted to stay and his reaction to Belkar telling the story of when he solo'd the thieves guild (with some help from a certain redhead)

andyway we already know that Tarquin has thea bility to stick tracking runes onto carpets, theres probably a few of them on his Manacles and clothes and such so he can find him quikcly


I just can't imagine a motive that is worth his current predicament.

death? maybe in the letter Bozok said, "keep ian away from this continent or ill find a dagger in his back, his daughters, your back and your wifes back

[Yendor]

After carefully examining the poster, comparing it to the one in 715, mucking about with fonts and so on, I've concluded that both Geoff and Ivy are listed as associates. I can't be certain, but it does seem to fit what can be seen. That would make it somewhat less likely that they're betraying Ian, though Tarquin could just be backstabbing them.

[Hopeless]

Okay I have a couple of questions...

1) Can an anti-magic field on a prison effect psionics?

We're assuming Ivy is still alive, what if the person smuggling meals in isn't Ivy but maybe someone uneffected by the anti-magic field after all they don't need to poison his food just catch them unawares so they can see what Ian has planned next, right?

2) What if Ivy's fate is whats making Geoff betray Ian?

If these guys are willing to imprison Ian for money on someone's say so and even see if they can get more money from another member of Ian's family whats stopping them from blackmailing Geoff to keep Ian in jail by threatening his wife?

[hamishspence]

Psionics/Magic Transparency is the default- that is- dispel magic works on psionics and vice versa, antimagic field cancels psionics, and so forth.

There's an option for it not to be- but it isn't the norm.

[runeghost]

It's likely all but guaranteed that someone Ian trusts is working to keep him there. The bigger question is why? Is it Geoff and Ivy together, or just one, and what's their motivation? hopefully we'll learn soon.


It my personal guess that the motivation may be a combination of money from Bozzok, some sort of leverage from Tarquin/his LE bureaucracy, and a genuine desire to keep Ian "safe". Safe in this case meaning keeping him from getting killed by challenging Bozzok or doing something else overconfidently "goodish" that he won't survive.

[Reddish Mage]

A lot of people think that Geoff is the one betraying Ian (by tipping off the guards to his escape attempts). Whether Ivy is in on it or not is hard to tell because we have almost no information on her, but it's definitely been considered by people as a possibility

Seems here it is much more definitely Ivy. Bozzok says he got his friends to get Ian to run off, and Ian says Ivy got him to come to help with the rebellion.

Incidentally, isn't Ian being Chaotic Neutral is technically at odds with him taking part of a rebellion?

[Chad30]

anyway we already know that Tarquin has the ability to stick tracking runes onto carpets, theres probably a few of them on his Manacles and clothes and such so he can find him quickly

I'm pretty sure, as suspicious as Ian is, he would take note of any runes on his clothes and tear them off. Runes on the manacles, especially if they were on the underside, could be hard to get off unless the manacles themselves were removed.

[Hopeless]

I'm pretty sure, as suspicious as Ian is, he would take note of any runes on his clothes and tear them off. Runes on the manacles, especially if they were on the underside, could be hard to get off unless the manacles themselves were removed.

They also wouldn't work inside the prison if that was the case, makes more sense if Tarquin and Bozzok were both being played.

We are assuming that letter was from Bozzok and also assuming Tarquin and co knew who Ian actually is.

What if Ian is hiding from Tarquin's group what better place to escape notice than with an alternative reason why he's being held there?

You're assuming Ian is being thwarted, but what if thats where he wanted to be and that letter was to take advantage of Tarquin's group so they'd contact Haley after all we still don't know who killed her mother and I think Tarquin or a member of his group was behind that.

I was wondering if Ian's hair and beard going white might be for other reasons, such as avoiding being recognised?

What if Ian "arranged" for Bozzok to pay that money to keep him locked up and Tarquin's group aren't going to pass up a good lump of money for someone who seems otherwise harmless.

They got greedy something he knew would happen they sent a ransom to his daughter who being his daughter would undoubtedly do something about it and she did!

Now the question is where did Ian go after he absconded with Geoff?

[Kish]

andyway we already know that Tarquin has thea bility to stick tracking runes onto carpets, theres probably a few of them on his Manacles and clothes and such so he can find him quikcly
I think we can cross off any possibility of success in any scheme of Tarquin's which hinges on Ian Starshine being insufficiently paranoid.

The Order took the carpet from Tarquin; Ian wouldn't even take his freedom from Tarquin, rather assuming (correctly, as it turned out!) that he needed to act like a prisoner who had seen a chance to run, not a pardoned and free citizen.

[Forikroder]

I think we can cross off any possibility of success in any scheme of Tarquin's which hinges on Ian Starshine being insufficiently paranoid.

The Order took the carpet from Tarquin; Ian wouldn't even take his freedom from Tarquin, rather assuming (correctly, as it turned out!) that he needed to act like a prisoner who had seen a chance to run, not a pardoned and free citizen.

well he kept the loincloth when he ran so its safe to say Ian doesnt subscribe to Elans version of invisibility -.-

[Hopeless]

well he kept the loincloth when he ran so its safe to say Ian doesnt subscribe to Elans version of invisibility -.-

You're assuming he didn't immediately acquire a new loincloth maybe even one of Elan's since being the son of Tarquin and accompanying his daughter might not have anything trackable on him...

[Bulldog Psion]

Ivy is definitely a plant. Though some people are clearly rooting for her, that type never turns over a new leaf. :smallwink:

[Bogardan_Mage]

Incidentally, isn't Ian being Chaotic Neutral is technically at odds with him taking part of a rebellion?
Taking part in a rebellion is plenty Chaotic, and his motivation was that Ivy asked him to. Morally Neutral sometimes just means placing individual relationships above good and evil.

[Kish]

Incidentally, isn't Ian being Chaotic Neutral is technically at odds with him taking part of a rebellion?
"If you're Chaotic Neutral, you can't have any principles or morality-based motivations" isn't significantly better than, "If you're Chaotic Evil you have to act like the Joker."