Schlockiverse + (vs?) Honorverse

[FLHerne]

So I've been reading the Honorverse vs 40k (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299894) thread for a while and found it quite interesting, partly because I've not heard much about the former before. It seems to have reasonably hard-science tech with consistent numbers attached, and actually sane politics (looks at SW for a counter-example of both).

Now, the only sci-fi universe that I've got a really solid knowledge of is the Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/) one. In case people haven't heard of it, it's a long-running daily webcomic by Howard Tayler featuring fairly hard science and a small mercenary company. There was a Schlockiverse vs 40k (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83484) thread several years ago, but I couldn't find anything else around here.

The premise:
- The inhabited systems of the Honorverse, complete with their inhabitants, political systems, fleets and so on, appear near the edge of the Milky Way in the Schlock universe, in a similar spatial arrangement relative to each other (in case it matters) as in their home universe.
- No stars are diverted into each other or anything by dozens of extra stars appearing from nowhere. It just works, ok? :smallcool:
- Honorverse grav-waves, hyperspace dimensions, etc exist in the Schlockiverse. They don't affect the 'standing gravitic waves' used by teraports, or any other Schlockiverse gravy technology.
- The micro-wormholes used bySM teraports exist in the region of space now occupied by the Honorverse. Same provisos on not affecting stuff.
- No-one has any prior knowledge of the other universe's technology, or any predetermined political attitude towards nations in the other universe. The Pa'anuri stay out of the way for now.
- Time period will be as of the latest comic for the Schlockiverse.
- And as of the latest book for the Honorverse, unless someone who knows how their tech changes over time tells me why that's a bad idea.

What happens?

Initial speculation
First contact is likely to be made very rapidly because each side has advanced sensors plus FTL travel and comms. The majority of governments in both universes are reasonably sane and pragmatic, so either side attempting to insta-kill the other verse isn't very likely. That's probably a good thing, because any major Schlockiverse power could could totally eliminate Manticore literally within seconds of knowing about it (teraport a TC bomb onto the uninterdicted planetary surface, maybe some boring antiship missiles onto the fleet for good measure, BAM!). Of course, the Honorverse won't stay that vulnerable for long if they get the chance, because some enterprising contractor will spot the enormous new market for teraport interdiction systems... :smallbiggrin:


TBA: Quick summary of SM tech for people who haven't read the comic.
Even quicker summary: - Near-instantaneous travel (teraport) to/from arbitrary locations at minimal energy cost - Gravitics for everything (sublight propulsion, ship weapons, shielding, etc) - 'Annie plants', essentially cheap power. Go SKOOOM! when you shoot them - 'Fabbers' - replicate or manufacture anything, given raw materials. Big things need big fabbers, obviously.
I can't write an Honorverse tech summary, because I don't know enough about their tech...

3, 2, 1, GO!

[The Glyphstone]

...what's the Versus? the Honorverse polities are pretty much less-advanced/semi-primitive civilizations by Schlock standards...they've mastered gravity tech for construction and defensive/propulsion purposes, but can't offensively project it as a weapon. Their space-based construction abilities, while impressive by hard sci-fi standards, pale before fabbers and the Dyson Sphere-lvel creations Shlockverse can put out. Even their power armor is inferior - military grade battle armor has jump jets, but can't fly easily via anti-gravity like the skintight uniforms of an only moderately wealthy mercenary company.

Any military conflict, with or without teraport interdiction, will only end in a crushing defeat for the Honorverse factions. They have nowhere to go but up in terms of tech, and offer nothing but a large and very lucrative trading market - especially when the galactic scale of the neighboring Solarian League gets considered - to the already-established Shlockverse powers.

[Rakaydos]

It sounds like it;s more like "Culture Explores", except with relitively sane nations that can "hopefully" get along.

So it's not a military *vs* so much as an ecopolitical one.

Still it is rather a big mismatch.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, even civilian-grade fabbers are as much a weapon of economic warfare as they are military, and a decisive one at that.

[Rakaydos]

I dont now much about Schlock Mercenry... how do they stand up compared to other "high end" fictions? Culture, Dahak, even Path of the Fury?

[FLHerne]

Hmm, looks like I might've overestimated the Honorverse tech level a bit (lot?) then. :smallconfused:

Still, what happens if an SKM wedge-powered thingy rams a Battleplate? I bet it would come off better than TAG did.

Or what about a wall-of-battle against a pair of O'Benn superfortresses?

Might wedges act as local teraport interdiction? Sidewalls? How do people think Schlockiverse gravity weapons would interact with either of those?

Maybe if I allow the Honorverse people to buy a few fabbers from someone before making them fight anyone, to even up the numbers (after all, if a single-frigate mercenary company could buy three of them...).

[GloatingSwine]

It sounds like it;s more like "Culture Explores", except with relitively sane nations that can "hopefully" get along.


Very like, the Fleetmind is probably the closest thing to a Mind you'e likely to see in other work.

Not quite as idiosyncratic though.

That's basically how well Schlock stands up against the Culture, Petey and the Fleetmind is probably a close peer of most Culture vessels. Other ships won't have the reaction speed to deal with what a Culture ship could dish out, and they'd probably have most of their systems offlined by Effectors, though most Culture ships would think twice before directly attacking a strong AI (for ethical reasons, rather than capability)

[Rakaydos]

Hmm, looks like I might've overestimated the Honorverse tech level a bit (lot?) then. :smallconfused:

Still, what happens if an SKM wedge-powered thingy rams a Battleplate? I bet it would come off better than TAG did.

Or what about a wall-of-battle against a pair of O'Benn superfortresses?

Might wedges act as local teraport interdiction? Sidewalls? How do people think Schlockiverse gravity weapons would interact with either of those?

Maybe if I allow the Honorverse people to buy a few fabbers from someone before making them fight anyone, to even up the numbers (after all, if a single-frigate mercenary company could buy three of them...).

Problem is, the largest honorverse political entity, the Solarian League, is depicted as rigidly inflexible and convinced of it;s own superiority. I would expect the mere known existance of the schlock-verse would shake it to it's core- and probbably shatter it.

Give us a few more books, we'll get back to you on what happens then. :p

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Whoa. I forget how crazy powerful the Schlockverse is. Probably because it's been a while since we saw stuff throw down on a massive scale. I need to reread everything.

So if Honorverse curbstomps 40K, this means that Schlockverse owns 40K. I think I'm okay with this.

[Rakaydos]

Whoa. I forget how crazy powerful the Schlockverse is. Probably because it's been a while since we saw stuff throw down on a massive scale. I need to reread everything.

So if Honorverse curbstomps 40K, this means that Schlockverse owns 40K. I think I'm okay with this.

To be fair, Honorverse curbstmps the Imperium's space fleet, but it lacks the size to absorb enough "one in a million" blows.

Schlock might be able to take it in entirety... of you have a plan for dealing with Chaos.

[The Glyphstone]

And as Elan has taught us, a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing.

[Eldan]

.

Schlock might be able to take it in entirety... of you have a plan for dealing with Chaos.

Either ask the necrons for pylon blueprints or steal one, then upload it into the Fleetmind. Or, really, just a fabber.

Problem solved. Pylons everywhere. Every ship, every planet, every station, every comet, asteroid, lagrange point... everywhere.

[Tavar]

even Path of the Fury?
Considering that there's a good case for Path of Fury being less powerful than Honorverse, but very similar otherwise in terms of Tech, I'd say not too great.

[Rakaydos]

Considering that there's a good case for Path of Fury being less powerful than Honorverse, but very similar otherwise in terms of Tech, I'd say not too great.

I'd argue slightly worst space capabilities, but better landwar capability and a significantly larger military industrial complex.

I'd put Shi'quo Company against any Marine chapter you care to name. :3

[Tavar]

I'd argue slightly worst space capabilities, but better landwar capability and a significantly larger military industrial complex.

I'd put Shi'quo Company against any Marine chapter you care to name. :3

Better Industrial Complex compared to Manticore? Yeah. But H-verse is pretty damn big.

I wouldn't be too certain about the landwar thing. Though I agree that they could handle Space Marines.

Space wise, though, they're much worse. Sure, they have black-hole missiles, but they're dumbfire, and they don't seem to have FTL sensors. Additionally, while they're completely protected from one direction, they lose protection in the other directions, and it blinds them worse than Honor verse ships.

Plus, they're a fair bit slower, if I remember things correctly.

[Douglas]

Hmm, looks like I might've overestimated the Honorverse tech level a bit (lot?) then. :smallconfused:

Still, what happens if an SKM wedge-powered thingy rams a Battleplate? I bet it would come off better than TAG did.

Or what about a wall-of-battle against a pair of O'Benn superfortresses?

Might wedges act as local teraport interdiction? Sidewalls? How do people think Schlockiverse gravity weapons would interact with either of those?

Maybe if I allow the Honorverse people to buy a few fabbers from someone before making them fight anyone, to even up the numbers (after all, if a single-frigate mercenary company could buy three of them...).
A battleplate is capable of projecting gravity powerful enough to compress matter into neutronium, and of doing so at a pretty substantial distance. I don't think even a superdreadnought wedge from Honorverse can match that level of sheer power. I'd expect an impeller drive ship that tries to ram a battleplate would get its drive overwhelmed and burned out long before impact.

[Rakaydos]

So I've been reading the Honorverse vs 40k (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299894) thread for a while and found it quite interesting, partly because I've not heard much about the former before. It seems to have reasonably hard-science tech with consistent numbers attached, and actually sane politics

The problem is, it DOES have consistant numbers attached... and they just dont have the right number of zeros to take on Schlock's verse.

[The Glyphstone]

The problem is, it DOES have consistant numbers attached... and they just dont have the right number of zeros to take on Schlock's verse.

That's what he said.:smallcool:

[Fan]

That's what he said.:smallcool:

Are you talking about me?

[The Glyphstone]

Are you talking about me?

No, FLHerne. I think Raykdos misread, or saw a 'not' somewhere in the middle of the hard science and consistent numbers line.

[Fan]

No, FLHerne. I think Raykdos misread, or saw a 'not' somewhere in the middle of the hard science and consistent numbers line.

FLHerne?:smallconfused:

[Tavar]

FLHerne, the Op? The one Rakaydos is quoting?

[Fan]

FLHerne, the Op? The one Rakaydos is quoting?

My initial post was a joke, because everything I do is about numbers.

It was more that I thought he was trying to make a follow up joke centered around a pun on both our names, and I.. didn't quite get it. So I asked, in case there was some subtle play on words I was missing rather than him not catching the joke, and me subsequently misinterpreting the presence of a joke.

[Tavar]

Huh. Even with you saying that the first post was a Joke, I just can't see it.

[Radar]

Just a small reminder, how insane fabber and gate-cloning technology can be. An ancient race known for building Dyson spheres and a galaxy-wide wormgate network didn't have a military fleet - they didn't need one. When one of those Dyson spheres was attacked by a really huge fleet, they instantly cloned billions of smart missiles, jammers and other autonomous military hardware.

The best part? It was a secondary attack, which was supposed to herd the attacking fleet, so that a system-wide gravity pulse from the star would shred them all into cosmic dust. Just so we have a proper scale of the power outputs available in Schlockverse, Fleetmind is harnessing the black hole in the center of our galaxy.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Just a small reminder, how insane fabber and gate-cloning technology can be. An ancient race known for building Dyson spheres and a galaxy-wide wormgate network didn't have a military fleet - they didn't need one. When one of those Dyson spheres was attacked by a really huge fleet, they instantly cloned billions of smart missiles, jammers and other autonomous military hardware.
For reference: the size of one of the Buuthandi (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-07-02)