Do you have to roleplay stats?

[Nettlekid]

Let's say you have a certain character idea. Maybe a shy Bard with a beautiful voice but is timid around people, maybe a naive Cleric who wants to help everyone indiscriminately, maybe a clumsy but lucky Rogue who manages to stumble as he throws a dagger and ends up planting it right in the foe's neck, maybe a foolish Wizard who meddles in powers he doesn't understand. The character ideas aren't all that complicated in and of themselves, but the stats involved make this...difficult. A Bard wants a high Charisma, which suggests that they have a strong force of personality, so it would be hard to be a shy wallflower with that in mind. A Cleric needs high Wisdom, which directly governs Sense Motive, so it's hard to justify a naive Cleric. And so on, you get where I'm going with this.

How can you roleplay a character with a personality you want, if the stats don't match up to the idea?

[Platymus Pus]

Let's say you have a certain character idea. Maybe a shy Bard with a beautiful voice but is timid around people, maybe a naive Cleric who wants to help everyone indiscriminately, maybe a clumsy but lucky Rogue who manages to stumble as he throws a dagger and ends up planting it right in the foe's neck, maybe a foolish Wizard who meddles in powers he doesn't understand. The character ideas aren't all that complicated in and of themselves, but the stats involved make this...difficult. A Bard wants a high Charisma, which suggests that they have a strong force of personality, so it would be hard to be a shy wallflower with that in mind. A Cleric needs high Wisdom, which directly governs Sense Motive, so it's hard to justify a naive Cleric. And so on, you get where I'm going with this.

How can you roleplay a character with a personality you want, if the stats don't match up to the idea?
I'd think so, it really depends.
There are extroverts and introverts after all.
Just don't play a dumb character smartly unless he's a stupid character that comes up with simple ideas that end up being good ones.

[Nettlekid]

I'd think so, it really depends.
There are extroverts and introverts after all.
Just don't play a dumb character smartly unless he's a stupid character that comes up with simple ideas that end up being good ones.

I agree that you shouldn't be playing a character with a low stat as having a high stat. Like, if a Barbarian had low Wisdom, he shouldn't be acting like King Solomon, or seeing through every trick. A Monk with low Cha shouldn't be leaping to the front of the party and jabbering with the diplomat, unless it's to say something crass and offensive by accident. But what about the other way around?

[Snowbluff]

I have to say this: if your Int is 12 and you're are trying to play the dumb barbarian type, roleplay your stats.

Also, wallflowers are MOE~! +30 CHA!

[Platymus Pus]

I agree that you shouldn't be playing a character with a low stat as having a high stat. Like, if a Barbarian had low Wisdom, he shouldn't be acting like King Solomon, or seeing through every trick. A Monk with low Cha shouldn't be leaping to the front of the party and jabbering with the diplomat, unless it's to say something crass and offensive by accident. But what about the other way around?

The other way around is possible.
http://www.personalitypage.com/html/info.html

[SoraWolf7]

To me, the score can help dictate your character's RPing, but I'd say only if it's part of his personality.

For example, I played a wolf-race Artificer with 8 Wisdom after his racial buffs and debuffs. He also had 20 INT and 19 strength, but that's not the point here. The way I played him was rather fun for me and everyone. I used a dice roll to determine what he would say or not.

When our group warlock used her eldritch blast in combat (in a world where warlocks are very taboo), my character instantly identified it, and I rolled to see if he'd blurt out "So you're a warlock!" mid-combat. Luckily for her, I rolled not to and just spoke to her about it after combat. My character was slowly turning into a genius but slightly insane scientist who designed a steampunk motorcycle for large creatures.

As for playing to your stat scores, you can still have an RPing moment where your character with low Wisdom says something oddly profound, or a Monk who manages to diplomacy his way out of a scenario. I'd say for them, it just comes less often.

[limejuicepowder]

Hmm for starters I'd say Don't play too much by the stats. They are starting point for characters, not the ending. In most cases, characters that are at odds with themselves in one way or another are only positive role playing opportunities, and so I wouldn't sweat it too much.

Specific to the examples you gave?
1) Just because a person has a personality that other people find attractive and persuasive doesn't mean that person has to use it. I can easily imagine a quiet, reserved person who instantly takes over a room and commands respect when they do speak up.

2) Extreme cases do abound of course, but naivety is often in the eye of beholder. When the optimist sees goals to strive towards, or causes worth fighting for, the pessimist (or cynic) sees hopeless dreaming. Maybe the wise cleric consciously chooses to always think the best of people, ultimately believing that everyone can change if only they are given the chance(s).

3) A character like this would be described as lucky; despite their obvious clumsiness, they always manage to be in the right place at the right time. Ambushed by archers? The character happens to trip, and the arrows sail harmlessly by his bent over, cartwheeling body. Does it make any difference at all if his agility is intentional or not? Nope.

4) A wizard who pursues terrible arts, without awareness of the consequences, has low wisdom (in all likelihood). In the most simple of terms, intelligence tells us the How, but wisdom tells us the Why. An absent-minded professor type who invents terrible poison gases just to advance his studies and doesn't consider what it might be used for, has low wisdom.

[Kane0]

I'd say roleplaying stats are about as important as roleplaying alignment. Don't forget they are there, but they take a back seat to personality.

[Mr.Sandman]

I would say it is up to you and your DM, but most of that just seems fluff. Don't give the Bard any interaction skills except perform, don't boost sense motive on the cleric, the Wizard sound like textbook high Int, low Wis.

Edit: I believe the term used here is Swordsaged correct?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Edit: I believe the term used here is Swordsaged correct?
It's like being ninja'd, but more mechanically effective.

[Snowbluff]

It's like being ninja'd, but more mechanically effective.

As opposed to monked. Just... no.

[Grod_The_Giant]

As opposed to monked. Just... no.
Hmm. Maybe being monked means that you were not only did someone else post the thing you were going to post before you, but a third party proved the post wrong before you even finished typing.

[Snowbluff]

Hmm. Maybe being monked means that you were not only did someone else post the thing you were going to post before you, but a third party proved the post wrong before you even finished typing.

Well, it's GITP official now. Good work. I now have to read the word 'monk' all the time. :smalltongue:

[Flickerdart]

Charisma isn't just being outgoing. You can have a shy and introverted person who nevertheless has a very strong sense of self and confidence that comes with a high Charisma. A barbarian could have a rubbish Wisdom score and still be very clever, but be completely useless when it comes to noticing his surroundings.

Ability scores aren't just one thing.

[Bhaakon]

Ability scores aren't just one thing.

The mental ones, at least. Dexterity, Constitution, and particularly Strength are a bit more narrowly defined. It would take some kind of extreme personality disorder to justify playing a 18 Str/18 Con barbarian as a sickly weakling.

[Lord Haart]

A Bard wants a high Charisma, which suggests that they have a strong force of personality, so it would be hard to be a shy wallflower with that in mind.
An obligatory picture that i'm surprised nobody had posted already:
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/353/0/c/fluttershy_being_cute_by_kamikazedelbvh-d4jkqlo.png


Don't give the Bard any interaction skills except performAnd Intimidate. Those wallflowers are scary when they lose it.

[DeathGodKyo]

The mental ones, at least. Dexterity, Constitution, and particularly Strength are a bit more narrowly defined. It would take some kind of extreme personality disorder to justify playing a 18 Str/18 Con barbarian as a sickly weakling.

I disagree! I bet I can do it, and I don't think my personality disorders are THAT extreme... I mean, uh, I'm totally mentally stable! Check it out.

I admittedly partial-stole this idea from Durarara, but since the Barbarian's early-on Rage ability leaves you Fatigued, what about a character with a disorder that prevents the natural limits from being placed on muscle usage? Then, your character (using the Rage mechanics as more of a way to judge how long they can even keep fighting, rather than how long they can berserk out of control) will fight in Rage-mode, and due to extreme internal strain and muscle tearing, the character will be left hospital-worthy? Heck, even when said Barbarian is combat-ready, he could still be feeling the weakness and soreness of the previous usage of his amazing strength... Oh wait, what a perfect roleplaying reason for that Flaw that -3s to Fortitude! Plus, the ability for a Barbarian to not tire afterwards, gained in later levels, complies with the ability of the human body to adjust to this disorder. The only real problem with this is backstory, since a character with the training and age of a 1st-level Barbarian probably would've already adjusted to their body, but we can make stretches for roleplaying purposes, right? :D

Hooray for being able to inundate people with copious amounts of texts as punishment for using the wrong example! :smallbiggrin

[Beleron]

To me, a basic question is: what about your own "stats"? Most D&D players are bright, sure, but are they all geniuses? You can only simulate the behavior of someone with a 20 Int score so far. And what about the more "socially awkward" players? Should they avoid charismatic characters altogether?

[NichG]

The fact that you have something like 10-20 minutes to think of what your character is doing over the next 6 seconds can be a huge multiplier on intelligence, just something to keep in mind as far as players emulating super-geniuses and the like.

Personally, I prefer systems in which the stats avoid issues of personality and mentality. Its fine to have a stat that indicates learning rate, or breadth of memory, or the ability to do complex mathematics quickly in one's head, but I dislike stats that basically act as taxes on certain kinds of RP, especially in systems that are very punishing of oddly-allocated stats like in D&D.

So at least in my games, I never force someone to play their character a certain way due to their stats.

[Humble Master]

To me, the way you roleplay your scores is based more on your character's personality than the score itself. For instance, a Wizard who has spent years studying spells with high intelligence but low charisma might be a crotchety old bookworm. A Fighter who is acting as a stern sergeant with the same scores might be a tactically brilliant, but ineffective leader.

[Chronos]

The mental ones, at least. Dexterity, Constitution, and particularly Strength are a bit more narrowly defined. It would take some kind of extreme personality disorder to justify playing a 18 Str/18 Con barbarian as a sickly weakling.
I don't know, the physical scores cover a lot of ground, too. Like, I'm pretty good at fine motor skills like threading a needle or repairing something small, but I'm terrible at throwing and catching things. Do I have a high Dex, or a low one? And in most respects, I'm the healthiest member of my extended circle of friends (so, presumably high Con), but I also get sick after even a small sip of alcohol.

[Raimun]

Of course you have to.

Let's say you have insane strength? That affects how your character sees the world.

Have a strength penalty instead? That character is different from the guy with insane strength.

Same goes with every other stat. Someone who has 20+ Dex can't really be clumsy.

However, with mental stats it is a bit different. You could have a wizard with 30+ Int who is still a fool with Wis of 5.

[Bhaakon]

I don't know, the physical scores cover a lot of ground, too. Like, I'm pretty good at fine motor skills like threading a needle or repairing something small, but I'm terrible at throwing and catching things. Do I have a high Dex, or a low one? And in most respects, I'm the healthiest member of my extended circle of friends (so, presumably high Con), but I also get sick after even a small sip of alcohol.

That's the real life. Within the game, the definitions are pretty well delineated in a way that the mental ones are not. If you have a high Dex, you're good at fine motor skills and throwing. If you have a high Con, you're hearty and can hold your liquor. There's no deeper level of granularity beyond the base ability scores.

[Raenir Salazar]

This Extra credits video may be helpful. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/myers-briggs-and-character-creation)

[Nettlekid]

Hmm, so I'm getting some mixed signals. Most people seem to agree that you shouldn't play a low-stat character as having a high stat, but opinions are more divided about a high-stat character behaving as though they had a low stat.

None of the examples I mentioned above are actually things I'm playing with. The real example involves a War Weaver with a very high caster level who uses Owl's Insight (not Owl's Wisdom) to greatly boost the Wis of his whole party (and all other stats with other spells, but Wis is the biggest bump). With this high Wisdom, one might think that the whole party would become ascetic and holy. But no one wants that to happen. People still want to play the trigger-happy Warmage or the paranoid Rogue, but those personalities don't really suggest having a high Wisdom.

[Platymus Pus]

You could play a character who has no low stats at all.

[prufock]

The physical stats are all but impossible to play against type. Str, Dex, Con give bonuses to physical things, and while you can play a Str 6 person that acts like a musclebound jock, when the chips are down it's the skill rolls that matter.

I personally think that's a good way to approach mental stats as well. Look at it as the difference between what the character is and what the character thinks he is. IE I might think I'm a ladies' man, but with my Cha 5 it doesn't stand up to reality. On the flip side, while I might actually be good with people, I might think they're judging me and that can manifest as shyness, despite my 15 cha.

[Mr.Sandman]

Ah, magical ability increases are a bit of a different kettle of fish in my opinion. When those stats are increased artificially they have the potential to act with their newfound abilities, but this is offset by the experiences in their past that shaped their personality to what it is naturally today, and the memories are harder to ignore than a bit of newfound mental clarity.

[Segev]

The only one I'm really seeing brought up is the "shy bard with high charisma so they're effective." Here's the thing: Charisma is a HUGE grab-bag stat that represents a lot of things jumbled together. It is overall impact of your personality on the world. You can do this through sheer force of personality/will, through being larger than life, through being seductive and intriguing, through persuasive speech, through quiet presence, or through being just plain lovable.

While it may seem a "shy wallflower" can't be represented by a high charisma, in truth, they can be. They're the "shy" character who everybody instinctively wants to draw out of their shell. Who is seen as "mysterious" for her reticence, who engenders sympathy at worst and an "oh how ADORABLE!" more often. They may not like being the center of attention, but it happens anyway.

When they speak up, people listen. It may intimidate them to have all that attention, but they have it. Their music stirs, their spells enchant, and they get people listening, swooning, and vying to show off to impress them just by being their quiet selves.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Hmm, so I'm getting some mixed signals. Most people seem to agree that you shouldn't play a low-stat character as having a high stat, but opinions are more divided about a high-stat character behaving as though they had a low stat.

None of the examples I mentioned above are actually things I'm playing with. The real example involves a War Weaver with a very high caster level who uses Owl's Insight (not Owl's Wisdom) to greatly boost the Wis of his whole party (and all other stats with other spells, but Wis is the biggest bump). With this high Wisdom, one might think that the whole party would become ascetic and holy. But no one wants that to happen. People still want to play the trigger-happy Warmage or the paranoid Rogue, but those personalities don't really suggest having a high Wisdom.

High Wisdom =/=high piety; for this particular case I would fluff Owl's Insight to increase situational awareness, the warmage will be more likely to figure out distances to make the best of their spells. A paranoid rogue would become even better and detecting lies and stuff like that, he now can see micro-expression (in the vein of Lie to me),

[Nettlekid]

Ah, magical ability increases are a bit of a different kettle of fish in my opinion. When those stats are increased artificially they have the potential to act with their newfound abilities, but this is offset by the experiences in their past that shaped their personality to what it is naturally today, and the memories are harder to ignore than a bit of newfound mental clarity.


High Wisdom =/=high piety; for this particular case I would fluff Owl's Insight to increase situational awareness, the warmage will be more likely to figure out distances to make the best of their spells. A paranoid rogue would become even better and detecting lies and stuff like that, he now can see micro-expression (in the vein of Lie to me),

I like both of these replies, because they offer insight while consolidating what other people have said. I like the whole "nature versus nurture" aspect of the first reply, in this case substituting nature at birth for nature derived by magic. If someone is naturally distrustful, it'll be hard for them to shake that habit.

And what a lot of people were saying is that the mental stats reflect many different facets. I like the second reply here because it suggests that having a high stat can denote a high facet while not necessarily including others. What I was hung up on is like, for the Warmage, they might realize under the influence of this higher Wisdom that running around shooting things isn't an enlightened path. But if it was less about enlightenment, and more about gaining intuition, then it still works.

[Jerthanis]

Personally, I think you shouldn't roleplay your stats. You should roleplay what your character thinks their stats are.

So if your character thinks himself a winsome charmer, talk constantly to people, but remind your DM to have people react poorly to his overtures due to his poor charisma and lack of ranks in relevant skills. The same can be said for sophomoric characters of other respects.

I mean, Dunning-Kruger is a pretty common effect in people who have shortcomings, and those who have issues with self-confidence will default to not using even their powerful tools if they lack the confidence to do so.

[Martial_law]

In our group, there are some people who have played before, but are still new at different parts. When we made the characters I made a big greasy bunny who is feral and is naturally regressing. The others took up roles of leadership in the group, I was a pet because I couldn't attend all the time. Int 8 Wis 11

The PC's who led us, it turns out, weren't good planners or politicians and our DM was struggling with the dead air while they processed the proper responses. It was killing us and our characters were suffering.

Then we added some temp PC's who took an interest in "grooming" me. to do it, we over time had me hash out decisions about the less fun details of DnD and boosted my int as an accelerated rate.

Now my bunny is a King who leads and manages an army. My bunny still makes mistakes, acts with aggression, and chews on things he shouldn't. The ex-leaders keep me under control but dont have to make all difficult decisions, and they can still hack and slash it up. They just dont have to attend political meetings they dont want to but still have input.

[Ansem]

You should act according to your stats, if not you should have changed switched the values.
If you have 8 INT you shouldn't be playing a smartass who comes up with ideas all the time, if you wanted to do this you should have put your 16 from STR there instead. That's how I see it. Even if you're a Barbarian, you're either a strong brawl or a smart brute.
You want to have CHA as your dump stat, sure, but dont go all diplomancer then, else you should have put points in it.
DM's I played with use this same logic and I see no problem with it.

[Segev]

Boosting Wis can lead to piety or concern for others, if that's how they wish to RP it, but it is not necessary. Evil clerics have astronomical Wisdom, but are still pricks.

Wisdom is insight and awareness, as somebody else mentioned. It is empathy (in that Sense Motive is a Wis skill), but not necessarily sympathy. You need not "feel their pain" when you manipulate somebody based on understanding what's going through their head. You can be a hot-headed warmage with high wisdom; you just have a better grasp of why things might turn out as they do thanks to your hot-headedness. Alternatively, you could be hot-headed but make better hot-headed decisions, as you think more quickly on your feet. You still lash out, but you lash out with greater tactical precision. It may not be long-term wise, but you definitely can be short-term more effective! That is high Wisdom, too.

[SilverSavio]

I dislike it when the DM tells me my character can't figure it out since I can't figure it out when my character has a much higher INT than myself.

[Tokiko Mima]

If you have an ability on the extreme end, you should probably incorporate it into your RP. One way or another, its something that makes your character different from everyone else.

And on the subject of characters not acting the way their abilities suggest, has anyone noticed the tendency of players to be all wild and chaotic and nuts, then when initiative is rolled everyone flips into Sun Tzu Art of War mode? Or is that just my group? :smalltongue:

[Dusk Eclipse]

I have it in reverse, you see my companions making all sort of plans and stuff, but once Initiative is rolled, it is every humanoid for himself, normally it works, but sometimes it gets annoying.