Rifts?

[Toofey]

So I have a friend who really wants to start playing Rifts, so I'm giving it a go.

Thoughts on this system?

any easy ways to deal with MDC conversion or is the rather complex way laid out in the system? (BOOKS for dealing with conversion, 3 of them, dang)

Also is there any place where the various D-Bee's are described or is it just a 'if you want to play a funny looking human' kind of thing?

[The Random NPC]

So I have a friend who really wants to start playing Rifts, so I'm giving it a go.

Thoughts on this system?

any easy ways to deal with MDC conversion or is the rather complex way laid out in the system? (BOOKS for dealing with conversion, 3 of them, dang)

Also is there any place where the various D-Bee's are described or is it just a 'if you want to play a funny looking human' kind of thing?

Rifts is a horribly designed system, that is incredibly fun to try to play. Just don't be surprised if there are sections that are incomplete.

[LibraryOgre]

So I have a friend who really wants to start playing Rifts, so I'm giving it a go.

Thoughts on this system?

In many ways, it's someone's house rules for 1st edition AD&D that got out of hand.

Rolling for attack and defense, and everyone getting % based skills were pretty revolutionary when they were introduced in 1983. Beyond the Supernatural (the first one) introduced PPE magic, Ley Lines, Nexuses, and the three (later four) category psionic system, while Robotech introduced MDC. Those are pretty much the cornerstones of the system.

The problem is, these aren't done well. IME, damage tends to be too low, while "health" tends to be too high. SDC is under-utilized, even in SDC-based games, giving it little differentiation from "extra HP"; the difference between the two, and how they could work well together, seems to be seldom grasped in Palladium publications.

Is the system playable? Certainly. I'm in a long-running Systems Failure game run by a friend of mine. However, the system doesn't do things well... skills are, by default, binary success/failure. Advancing in level doesn't mean as much as it should for how long it takes. Hand to Hand skills are at once completely necessary (they provide Auto Parry) and relatively useless (the difference between Basic and Martial Arts is 2 skills... only about 5% on the die)... and that's when you don't have outright dead levels (Gee, I got kick attacks. Too bad they're weaker than my Supernatural Strength, and there's no way to figure out how much a roundhouse kick from someone with my strength).


any easy ways to deal with MDC conversion or is the rather complex way laid out in the system? (BOOKS for dealing with conversion, 3 of them, dang)

MDC conversion, assuming I understand what you mean, is VERY straightforward. 1 MD equals 100 SDC. If a single impact would do 100 SDC, it can be considered to do 1 MD; if it would take multiple impacts (like, a full auto burst from a non-MD machine gun), it usually will not (though they violated this later, because).

Unless the GM goes out of his way to change it, MDC in Rifts is pretty much the default. Your armor is MDC because most of your foes have MD weapons. Later books really pump up the amount of MDC, while MD damage tends to baseline at around 1d4*10 being "good" for a rifle-sized weapon.

MDC is a very clunky and chunky way of doing weapon scaling. It works, but not well.


Also is there any place where the various D-Bee's are described or is it just a 'if you want to play a funny looking human' kind of thing?

Most world books will have a few, and D-Bees of North America is a collection both the old and the new.

Overall, Rifts is playable and can be fun. However, IMO, it is fun because you have a good GM who can make things work in spite of the system, instead of the system facilitating fun.

[Spamotron]

I hear the same thing said about Rifts and Palladium in general that people say about Exalted. Brilliant fluff and flavor writers who create very enjoyable, fun worlds. Klunky poorly thought out mechanics. Unfortunately while Exalted has dozens of conversions to more mechanically robust games available on the web Rifts does not as far as I know.

Heck I own all the Rifts World Books because they're such fun reads but I've never gotten a group to play it for a reason.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I hear the same thing said about Rifts and Palladium in general that people say about Exalted. Brilliant fluff and flavor writers who create very enjoyable, fun worlds. Klunky poorly thought out mechanics. Unfortunately while Exalted has dozens of conversions to more mechanically robust games available on the web Rifts does not as far as I know.

Exalted also has the 200-page errata.

[LibraryOgre]

Exalted also has the 200-page errata.

Palladium simply doesn't do errata.

However, I have to take issue with Palladium having great worlds... in many ways, they don't. What they have is some wonderful ideas, and Palladium gets some EXCELLENT artists working for them. Scott Johnson (http://www.scottjohnsonart.com/), Amy Ashbaugh (http://www.alashbaugh.com/blog/), Mike Mumah (https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Art-of-Mike-Mumah/325723414311) and others have all worked for Palladium. Freddie Williams (http://www.freddieart.com/), currently working with Gail Simone on "The Movement"? Palladium Art alumnus.

But, they don't build good worlds. Rather, they have outstanding ideas that catch the mind, which are frequently poorly thought out or developed, and pretty well ignored. Want an example? Coalition Navy came out in 1997, and mentioned that the Coalition States (the big bad Nazi-like, magic-hating human supremacists) with the fact that the CS took over Port Horus, on the former site of Beaumont, Texas. Massive military installation there. In 1998, they came out with Lone Star, which included a bit about Houston, now called Houstown. Never mentioned the CS Navy Base at Beaumont, despite the fact that the military population of that base is bigger than the entire population of Houstown, and Beaumont is about 70 miles away. 70 miles is a short ride on Rifts-era hovercycles. 70 miles is "within missile range".

That's not world-building. That's "neat stuff thrown at a wall."

[Toofey]

I'm getting very frustrated by this games design. the scaling between damage and capacit to absorb damage feels off with all the test fights I've run, the system runs clunky, there's no stated way to calculate some very basic stuff (for instance there's a called shot rule, but no notes as to how damage is done if a called shot is used to bypass MDC armor with an SDC weapon) also frankly the world design is a mess, and I hear a lot of talk of "if you could travel the world simply by stepping through a rift" but that seems to be 1 classes specific ability. etc... etc....

I'm still giving this a try for my friends sake, but this game feels stupid right now.

[Toofey]

additionally the DMing... Sorry GMing advice given, espescially (so far) in the magic book, is TERRIBLE.

One of the designers says to reward mages for playing in character but to punish them for constantly looking for new magic... What could possibly be more in character than constantly looking for new magic?

I also like the "mages won't just use a gun because they like magic" how abotu saving their magic for things only magic can do, and why isn't there anyone in this INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS WORLD who takes a more pragmatic view of things, like, yaknow, everyone who survives in this incredibly dangerous world.


Edit: So I'm going to be GMing this by the way. Which is why I'm asking if anyone already has some good mechanics for the things that aren't fleshed out (why do the work over again if I don't have to)

Also, I already have one player bugging me to start in the CS, are there any alternatives to this? The CS plot lines (ooh, it's racist, but the humans really are in danger, what do we do?) seem to be the very things that my players don't enjoy in practice, even as they are asking for it (silly players, you so seldom know what you like)

Also are any of the worlds on the other side of the rifts described anywhere, and do they in the materials overlap multiple places? (are they more game board, or are they just blips basically)

[LibraryOgre]

Also, I already have one player bugging me to start in the CS, are there any alternatives to this? The CS plot lines (ooh, it's racist, but the humans really are in danger, what do we do?) seem to be the very things that my players don't enjoy in practice, even as they are asking for it (silly players, you so seldom know what you like)

A good way to run the CS is straight... take the CS propaganda at face value. The mages they fight should be icky; the monsters should be monstrous. You might have the occasional "sympathetic" D-Bee, but put them there in a situation where the party doesn't HAVE to fight them.

Unless you want to play with the socio-political aspects, the CS is fun, avoids the problems of magic, and gives everyone a reason to be together. One of my best games was all CS; another one was all True Atlantean (until my Shifter/Technowizard/Witch got into a fight with Mephisto and got replaced by a hyperactive dragon).



Also are any of the worlds on the other side of the rifts described anywhere, and do they in the materials overlap multiple places? (are they more game board, or are they just blips basically)

Wormwood and Phase World are the two main ones. Phase World is a big space opera setting; Wormwood is a fight for survival on a bio-engineered planet.

But, yes, weapons don't do enough damage, and things have too much MDC. Fights against monsters can be a slog. Double the damage and/or cut MDC in half, especially for big monsters. Be willing to REALLY simplify rules to keep it quick. I've got some stuff posted on my old Livejournal about changing the system, but it requires more or less overhauling.

[Toofey]

It's always this ****ing gurps.

I'm a little worried this might kill my group, maybe I should just embrace 3.x that at least seems to be a workable system.

[Telok]

Some twenty years ago a jury of my peers banned me for life from playing Rifts. I was a Rogue Scientist weapons systems engineer. Fun times.

Two major things that make Rifts really playable and enjoyable are to:
1) Limit the books and options being used.
2) Start house ruling immediately, and write it down.

#1 will help with people finding a race, class, or equipment somewhere in the 30+ books that flat out breaks something or everything. If you have people playing dog-boys and basic juicers and then someone comes along as a MDC shape shifter that teleports and has mind control magic... Just limit the options at start and try to keep everyone on the same power level. The game works better that way.

#2 covers all those niggly bits that just don't work right or feel wrong. Write down your fixes, brainstorm with the group (assuming that everyone is a mature adult about this), and figure out something reasonable. Every game had bits where the rules don't cover something because writing a rule for every possible thing will inflate your game until it' has more pages than the internet.

So keep your scope kind of narrow and change what bothers you. The rules lawyers will be amongst the first against the wall when the revolution comes.

[JBPuffin]

RIFTS: system is absolutely horrible, but the premise of running around with creatures from across the Multiverse is utterly delicious.

I own several RIFTS books; let me tell you, I'm not sure a person with a Master's in Mathematics from the best school this side of the Universe could accurately figure out how this thing is actually suppose to WORK. I couldn't find anything for my flamekin Burster that made sense as gear, and my friend's Cyborg ended up with Bicycling as one of his skills. BICYCLING!

So, if you get a chance, play 3.5 or something with the worlds you like from it. It will work out better for all those involved.

[tasw]

It's always this ****ing gurps.

I'm a little worried this might kill my group, maybe I should just embrace 3.x that at least seems to be a workable system.

My favorite game ever, hands down, was played in the era of the rifts world where the rifts first opened and everything went to hell.

I used new world of darkness for all the mechanics. But the fluff of rifts can be pretty awesome..

I would ask your player if he likes the system or the world. It will probably be the world. Then just insert your gritty mechanical system of choice into that world and play it.

[Yuki Akuma]

Rifts is like early Exalted - play it in a different system.

I suggest Fate.

[Anderlith]

My opinion of the system is that it is way to outdated & the numbers are all over the place. The organization sucks as well but they do have a hefty index.

The parts I love are the fluff. Dogboys & Coalition States are at the top. & Techno-Wizards, the City of Dwemer & the Magi being second

[sktarq]

I played several games of Rifts of the years.....to very "inconsistent" results.

My general reaction is the the system is the most twitchy, GM dependent system I've ever played. Which a great GM the sky isn't even the limit. And amazing incredibly fun games are to be had by all....But if the GM is anything less that brilliant then the whole thing teeters on the edge of stupidity, frustration, bad humour, and mindless slogging every couple seconds. A single botched call by the GM (wrong monster, Threw in a spare "random roll" weapon in a treasure cache, lets a player pick a spell/power from supplement number 37 when nobody local knows the complementary power to shut it down) can ruin a whole game.

The game system works at a basic level....mostly....but they then added this, then a touch of that, a few of those....none of which interacted with each other. The Houston/Port Horus example being not just an example but really more of the norm.

The system is big, grand, and tries to be everything for everyone all at once.....

Some advice.
That big-grand-everything-to-everyone system? Pick what you want to run and wrestle the system down and use what you want to play the game you want to play.
I'd recommend using the core book only, or the core and only a couple of splats that are focused on the region of play. - I rather like Rifts-Russia and the NGR for early play. The more splats the more truly ridiculous rule interactions crop up.
Keep all your players human.....not forever but for the first couple games. Also Racial Classes- particularly MDC ones take a huge amount to get used to. Most of them cause d4MD or more with a punch. Which is about the capacity of early tanks....with a fist. Now imagine doors, walls, "bulletproof" glass, etc and a creative player will force you to change the nature of the game just to keep things functional.
Have a plan-from the get go...why are this bunch of murder hobos together-what's the plan etc. You will be spending so much time learning where all the tables are, strange rules, and where you left that skull armoured CS patrol for the 10th time to really be ready for sandbox play. Hell the most successful intro games used an 2 experienced players (including me) leading a team of 6 CS military specialists (Rangers, Juicers, "Seals", EDT, etc) with the GM standing in for our CO.
Also be very ready to say no to your players allot, especially during character creation. It is important in all games but I've never known a system a twitchy as rifts on this score.

oh....and Good Luck, you'll need it.

[LibraryOgre]

Keep all your players human.....not forever but for the first couple games. Also Racial Classes- particularly MDC ones take a huge amount to get used to. Most of them cause d4MD or more with a punch. Which is about the capacity of early tanks....with a fist. Now imagine doors, walls, "bulletproof" glass, etc and a creative player will force you to change the nature of the game just to keep things functional.


I'll mod this... you don't have to keep everyone human, necessarily, but keep everyone on the same page. A human with a group of Kreeghor is going to be quickly and vastly outstipped. Human with a dog boy? Not so much.

Pick a theme for the game, and make the players stick to it. All-human is the easiest, both in terms of concept and that most of the OCCs work for it... but if you've got another idea, go for it.

[Toofey]

I dislike forcing my players to play certain types of characters etc... And typically I get a lot of my inspiration from figuring out why those characters are in the same place at the same time, and why are they going to work together.

When DMing D&D I (for this reason) make my players develop their character concepts before play. Typically if people want to play friends etc... I'll let them (they're friends in real life, why not in the game) but it's the act of bringing the party together that helps me figure out where they're going.

[Yuki Akuma]

Toofey, this isn't D&D. This is a game where one level 1 character starts with rags and a pistol that deals 1d3 damage, and another who starts capable of ripping apart tanks with his bare hands and casting archmage-level spells.

If you don't restrict characters to the same general power level, bad things happen.

[LibraryOgre]

Yuki speaks the truth. There's also the ideological question.

"I'm playing a Coalition Trooper! I hate demons, d-bees, magic and unlicensed psychics!"

"I'm playing an elf shifter with psionics... you know, the kind of wizard who summons demons?"

[sktarq]

I'll mod this... you don't have to keep everyone human, necessarily, but keep everyone on the same page. A human with a group of Kreeghor is going to be quickly and vastly outstipped. Human with a dog boy? Not so much.

I'd stand by my recommendation for the following reason. It takes a game or two to get used to the rules enough to figure out how to judge power levels off the page. While a dog boy is close enough to a human to work some of the later editions can LOOK human level equivalent but do not work that way in play.

[Telok]

One starter game that I saw once had everyone begin as dogboys. Supposedly they started as a demon hunting team under a sympathetic CS officer. After two or three missions the officer was offed and they were reassigned to a normal bigoted officer and given psychic hunting missions. When I encountered the game they were on the run after killing the officer and going awol (something about a school on a ley line and being ordered to off the kids) and could start making human-level characters to replace dead or retired dogs.

Limits and structure early on and a logical lead in to a wider scope and characters as play progressed.

[Toofey]

Toofey, this isn't D&D. This is a game where one level 1 character starts with rags and a pistol that deals 1d3 damage, and another who starts capable of ripping apart tanks with his bare hands and casting archmage-level spells.

If you don't restrict characters to the same general power level, bad things happen.

Yes, but you understand, I'm actually a good DM. The game can be about survival for one character, while another "breaths fire". The person who wants to play a guy in rags with a pistol that fires 1d3, they know what's up, why make them play a killing machine (although if/when they get blasted that might be the long term result)

Most of the critique I've heard in this thread seem like people who are 'trapped' in the more modern RPG culture of "things should be fair" and "the rules should make sense". Rifts is clearly not that kind of game.

So in end result I'm starting the game with RAW, but I'm going to track house rulings as they go and I already have a couple in mind but given that 2 of my players have significant experience playing rifts I want to see what they propose when we hit rules voids/snags.

I'm waiting to see what the players come up with to figure out where I start them but if they go CS, or Burby they'll end starting somewhere near modern day Toronto, I want to use the Naruni comming back, the bug invaders and a couple supervillians who are well equipped from the heroes unlimited universe as the elements around the game to spark ideas from.

I'm strongly considering them having to track down an NPC who's basically a D&D elvin Ranger (who's magic stuff does MD natch) as their starting mini-campaign.

[sktarq]

all those things sound fine in the abstract but in Rifts things work a bit different.
the GM survival issues have VERY little room for error.
Judging how to translate books that give you the GM little idea of power level into the game smoothly is difficult and has a murderous learning curve.
Power level differences in Rifts are far larger - often my orders of magnitude than in most games so "unbalanced" parties are far more extreme and normal coping mechanisms must be modified. The "balanced" all human party will already contain major power differentials to a degree rarely found in parties in other games built around the concept.

None of this prevents doing what you are talking about-in fact rifts is brilliant at that. However I very much think it is a bad place to start and learn the system.

The system can hide a character so powerful that the "cooperative story telling" disappear and it is all out that one character and his little friends-often dragging the GM along for the ride.

[Toofey]

I'm just going to point out that everyone's objections in here boil down to combat system issues. Not Role play issues.

In any system any given character can find a way to dominate the game if the DM/GM keeps presenting challenges that play to the characters advantages.

There's also huge numbers of ways to keep everyone relevant to the STORY.

It's funny to me that you guys think "power levels" are even relevant to the underlying stories, but whatevs. I rather think the answers in here which are irritating me are the inevitable result of asking this question on a board with mostly >2e players.

[LibraryOgre]

I'm just going to point out that everyone's objections in here boil down to combat system issues. Not Role play issues.

No. My issues include the combat system, the skills system, and non-holistic world-building (i.e. many things designed without taking into account anything nearby; q.v. Houstown, Port Horus, and Fort Pinnacle).



It's funny to me that you guys think "power levels" are even relevant to the underlying stories, but whatevs. I rather think the answers in here which are irritating me are the inevitable result of asking this question on a board with mostly >2e players.

Power levels become relevant when power can solve problems. If massive application of power can solve the problem that might also be solved through cleverness, and someone can bring massive amounts of power faster and easier than someone else can bring cleverness, then they will do so.

Really, that's Xykon's entire point in Start of Darkness. You can be smart. You can be wise. But if someone can simply steamroll over those, then you're in trouble.

[Grinner]

I'm just going to point out that everyone's objections in here boil down to combat system issues. Not Role play issues.

In any system any given character can find a way to dominate the game if the DM/GM keeps presenting challenges that play to the characters advantages.

There's also huge numbers of ways to keep everyone relevant to the STORY.

It's funny to me that you guys think "power levels" are even relevant to the underlying stories, but whatevs. I rather think the answers in here which are irritating me are the inevitable result of asking this question on a board with mostly >2e players.

You're drawing a false dichotomy there. The mechanics and the plot are not separate; they are very much intertwined. The mechanics are the concrete means by which a character can affect other characters, the game world and, in turn, the plot. When one guy can enact mind control or casually murder small populations, the game belongs to him. Not you, and certainly not the other players.

Is that bad? Depends on the group. In any case, it limits the kinds of themes you can do.

Disclaimer: I've never played Rifts. I'm merely talking from general principle.

[sktarq]

I'm just going to point out that everyone's objections in here boil down to combat system issues. Not Role play issues.

In any system any given character can find a way to dominate the game if the DM/GM keeps presenting challenges that play to the characters advantages.

There's also huge numbers of ways to keep everyone relevant to the STORY.

It's funny to me that you guys think "power levels" are even relevant to the underlying stories, but whatevs. I rather think the answers in here which are irritating me are the inevitable result of asking this question on a board with mostly >2e players.

Again no. It is not about power levels per se but about how the mechanics can get in the way of telling a good story.
Due to unpredictable power levels stories can either get run over by either monster that has killed half the party before you realize you need to tone it down or a party member realizes that with MDC power armor he can latterly walk through the sdc walls of the entire town you set up for social interaction and shortcut everything bypassing your story.....And then think that what they did WAS what you were asking them to do.
And power level is not just about them either. It is about you too. It is about being able to create appropriate encounters. NPC that challenge the PCs but can be overcome by hook, crook, or combat.
My main memories of Rifts are a constant scramble by the GM to either not have us walk over everything or not instantly kill us because he was focused on the story and did not realize just what he had set up for us mechanically. This distracted from the story-it sent players into territory that he hadn't ever considered. Spare descriptive fluff that wasn't considered anything but background art can have such a high power level when used to advance the story that we suddenly find ourselves into a part of the story that we are by no means ready for and the GM was using as foreshadowing. (MDC vault and mining equipment in that case)
I'm not so worried about power level issues within the party I'm worried about the GM being able match the power levels of the situation to the characters.
Rift has a way of bring out lateral problem solving. And huge amount of power in one area can be leveraged in very unexpected ways to render a story moot. See walking through walls in starting power armor problem....oh they have MDC walls? if they can afford that then why can't they afford guards and thus why do they need the players....is a very common type of problem. A key part of the story-say a town is not rich and powerful enough to take care something on their own leads to a mechanical effect that makes actions of the players that disrupt, bypass or otherwise kill the story. Now this is always true to an extent in ever RPG. It is part of what is fun about the game. But in Rift these things have a wider scope, most areas have few social conventions prohibiting such actions for example. Simply it is more for the GM to keep track of-often with little or no warning.
Edit: It takes that GM'ing challenge up to a whole new level like no other system I know. And until you have a few games under your belt things are going to be very hard. Keeping things as simple as you can until you learn how to translate things off the page in a way that is playable on a reliable basis is key. Otherwise the mechanics-be they the combat system, the skill system can get in the way of telling a good story and the game session get very bogged down in arcane rules and trying to salvage an idea which just adds to stress and is less fun.
and as a 1e player I am a little insulted

[Freddrick]

I can answer some of your questions and give you my feedback from playing and running a rifts game.

...there's a called shot rule, but no notes as to how damage is done if a called shot is used to bypass MDC armor with an SDC weapon
RAW if someone is wearing their MDC armor correctly, there is no way to bypass it, even with a called shot. If they have their helmet off then the called shot is required to hit the head, otherwise it hits the armor and does no damage.


also frankly the world design is a mess
Yes, yes it is.


I hear a lot of talk of "if you could travel the world simply by stepping through a rift" but that seems to be 1 classes specific ability. etc... etc....
Rifts are akin to worm holes linking different parts of the "multi-verse" together. In the core book only 1 or 2 O.C.C.s can control the rifts but the splat books introduce more that can. Typically the connections are not from one place on earth to another.


I'm still giving this a try for my friends sake, but this game feels stupid right now.
Imho the RAW are stupid, the combat system is a mess, the skill system is atrocious and HIGHLY redundant/ridiculous (see cyborg with bicycling example).
Rifts does provide you with an incredible sandbox to play in. My recommendation is to decide where you are going to start play at and limit the splat books to that area. i.e. no rifts Africa/south America since you are starting in Canada. Absolutely house rule anything and everything you need to in order to make the game work for you and your group.

Kevin Sembida has very specific views as to how classes should be played, hence the whole section you read on "how to play a mage" and is very unforgiving about how unbalanced the whole system is and if your GM can't adapt to that and let you play what you want then, according to Kevin, he isn't a good GM.

The games I have played in were the most fun when everyone was about the same power level ( a CS soldier, Psistalker and Dogboy, or a Cyberknight and a Juicer). In running the games fights were everywhere. some combats that should have been simple took way to long and major fights were over too soon. Also Rifts is brutal. I went through 3 characters in 6 sessions, now one of those was my fault but it can still be disheartening to loose so many characters.

I wish you the best of luck with your game.
-Freddrick

[Kioras]

Rifts appears to play somewhat like a lot of the game systems from the early 80's, at it's roots. The base game seems to have started out as a collection of house rules and ain't it cool on basic D&D rules.

Then you have 30 years of rules expansions, major changes and book after book one-up-manship, and you get the current system.

Very fun to run around in, but the players need similar power levels, humans with armor + low mdc deebee's or mages.

Mixing in powered armor troops, which is a normal level 1 starting option can skew things badly, not to mention you get glitterboys which can scrag in 1-2 rounds (3d6x10mdc per shot) most people in normal armor, most common body armor tops at 70MDC.

There are some traps for new players, such as figuring out how many attacks you get in a combat round, the ultimate edition makes some sense of the combat rules, but a level 1 player with a glitter boy, in a single round will get a total of 6 or 7 attacks depending on skill selection, and it scales up from there. Each shot is 1 attack.

To make it short, I support what was said earlier in the thread, keep everyone on the same power level, for example keep everyone in normal body armor with mid damage weapons, and mostly low level casters.

[GungHo]

Honestly, the only thing that ever struck me as entertaining about Rifts were the ads in the back of Dragon magazine where they had the freakin Terminator that somehow passed by the IP people... probably because James Cameron didn't read Dragon magazine.