Build the revolves around white raven?

[CyberThread]

Is it foolish to revolve a build around white raven , or should it be regulated as a seondary focus ?

[Lateral]

No, White Raven can be quite powerful, depending on the party makeup. If you have a lot of allies that melee, it can be very, very powerful. Also, it includes what is, IMO, the most powerful maneuver in the entire book (White Raven Tactics).

If you were to build around White Raven, I'd go with a Bardsader. Bard 4/Crusader 16 should do the trick just fine. Take Song of the White Raven so your Inspire Courage increases in power when you take Crusader levels (it won't boost your uses/day, so you'll either want to take four levels of Bard or take Extra Music).

[Beleron]

Or alternatively, Bardblade. Either way, Dragonfire Inspiration and Words of Creation are both great.

[CyberThread]

what are the major difference between those two combinations ?

[Greenish]

what are the major difference between those two combinations ?The other one is mostly warblade, the other mostly crusader. Warblades have more control over the maneuvers they get, but their recharge mechanic takes actions. Crusader gets random maneuvers (from the ones she knows), but get free recharge. Also access to different schools.


I'm going to divert from the others, and recommend a non-bard warblade or crusader. If you have melee allies, White Raven is a very powerful school, and stacking DFI on top of it can be an overkill. Plus a bard-build matures more slowly, and eats feats and magic items.

[Waker]

How about a Factblade (Factotum/Warblade). You've got the Intelligence synergy, lots of skill points and decent attack, plus at higher levels you can use a White Raven maneuver to let the party do something, Cunning Surge, another White Raven maneuver.

[CyberThread]

am looking at being more a CHA machine, then a INT machine.

[Hytheter]

Of course, if your party consists mostly of ranged attackers and spellcasters you'll probably want to specialise in a different discipline. :P

With melee allies it is definitely potent though. Crusader is a good choice I think, he gets a few decent combat healing maneuvers which can heal your allies with, and you get some tanking capabilities that help draw fire from your allies too.

[Ramza00]

If you go White Raven as a secondary tactic this is a great build

Party Buffer
Highlights

Vastily improve the parties damage with dragonfire inspiration (sonic) and normal inspire courage
Can give 1 ally (starting level 9) an extra round of actions in exchange for your swift action (White Raven Tactics)
Cha to party Something with Marshal
Healing Hymn (vastly improve healing, get your party cleric some level 1 pearls of power)
Party Members (starting level 11) get 2 extra attacks and bonus damage in exchange for Bard's Standard Action
Build does not require flaws, but flaws will improve it.
Still can be the party face when not in combat, you do lose suggestion but there are ways to get it back or your party wizard can cast it.

Bard 6/Marshal 1/Virtuoso 1/Crusader or Warblade 1/Bard +1/Sublime Chord 1/Virtuoso +9 (advancing sublime chord casting).

Feats
1 HD Dragontouched
1 Human or Flaw Dragonfire Inspiration
Bard 1 Healing Hymn (Substitution Option, give up Fascinate to get this alternate class feature
3 HD Draconic Heritage (Battle Dragon)
Bard 6 Bonus Feat Song of the Heart (Substitution Option, give up Suggestion to get a bard bonus feat off a select list)
6 HD Words of Creation
9 HD Song of the White Raven
12 Free
15 Free
18 Free
(You may want to take Draconic Aura as one of your free feats)

9th Level

Base Inspire Courage of +2 (Words of Creation makes this +4, Masterwork Horn attached to a Neck Strap +5, Song of the Heart +6, Inspirational Boost +7, Badge of Valor +8)
With Dragonfire Inspiration you can do 6d6 to 8d6 sonic damage to all your allies attacks
6th Level Bard Casting
5th Level Crusader or Warblade Maneuvers, Can do White Raven Tactics
Cha to Something with Marshal

10th Level

Now have 7th Level Bard Casting and thus a single 3rd level spell

11th Level

You can also probably afford a vest of legends at level 11 so your effective bard level is 14 enough to get you Inspire Courage +3
Base Inspire Courage of +3 (Words of Creation makes this +6, Masterwork Horn attached to a Neck Strap +7, Song of the Heart +8, Inspirational Boost +9, Badge of Valor +10)
With Dragonfire Inspiration you can do 8d6 to 10d6 sonic damage to all your ally attacks.
Also at level 11, now have 2 4th Level Spells and 1 5th Level Spell. Make one of your spells Sakkratar's Triple Strike
Sakkratar's Triple Strike, 8 Creatures within 45 feet for 1 round get two extra attacks if they engage in melee and their weapons get the flaming burst (1d6 fire damage always 1d10 or more on critical hit) and keen weapon abilities.


Eventually at level 20 you get 10 levels of Sublime Chord Casting, 18 Levels of Inspire Courage, and White Raven Tactics

Sources

Marshall Heroes of Battle also located here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b
Gives Cha to 1 important thing

Virutsuo Complete Adventurer
9/10 Spellcasting Class that advances inspire courage

Crusader or Warblade Tome of Battle
Source of White Raven Tactics

Sublime Chord Complete Arcane
Bard Spellcasting class that gives 9th level Spells over 10 levels

Dragontouched (Dragon Magic, p. 18) [Draconic]
Dragonblood Subtype and you can take sorcerer feats without sorcerer levels

Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic, p. 17) [Draconic]
Can convert your inspire courage to xd6 fire or sonic damage (with Draconic Heritiage) where x is the your inspire courage bonus to attack. Next round you can do another inspire courage effect.

Healing Hymn is in Complete Champion

Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting, p. 60) [General]
+1 to Inspire Courage

Eberron Campaign Setting also allows you to trade out some songs for bard bonus feats. Located at the end of the bard section.

Draconic Heritage (Races of the Dragon, p. 102) [Draconic]
Make your dragonfire inspiration sonic

Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds, p. 48) [Exalted]
Must be exalted good but your base bard class inspire courage doubles. Take some damage to activate this effect.

Song of the White Raven (Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords, p. 32)

Masterwork Horn is in Songs and Silence
Your Inspire Courage goes up +1 attack and damage but you do not get the bonus to fear. Song and Silence is a 3.0 source, if your DM does not like 3.0 sources there are similar masterwork items in Complete Adventure.
[General]
Can do inspire courage as a swift action, your crusader or warblade levels stack with your bard levels for inspire courage.


Note you can also take lingering song at level 1 if your dm allows flaws.

Have you or your allies use Benign Transposition (level 1 spell swap ally positions, Spell Compedium), and Dimension Step (level 3 spell allies teleport a distance equal to their move speed, effectively you swap your standard action so multiple allies get a free move action PHB2.)

Pretty much your job is to boost your allies during the first and second round of combat, then use your spells/umd/white raven tactics to use your actions to give your party abilities so they get extra actions. You are the party buffer and enabler, your are the chessmaster and your party members are your pieces that you set up.

[molten_dragon]

Is it foolish to revolve a build around white raven , or should it be regulated as a seondary focus ?

As has already been mentioned, it really depends on the rest of the party makeup. If you've got a lot of melee characters in the party, building around white raven is great. If you don't, it isn't so good.