Pathfinder: Slapping Tail ARG

[Emparawr]

Ok so here is my issue. I'm helping my gf to make a draconic humanoid Antipallie who focuses on sword and natural attacks. The one thing im struggling with is the Slapping Tail option from Advanced Race Guide since we are creating a custom race for her.

Creating New Races (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/creating-new-races#TOC-Offense-Racial-Traits)

Slapping Tail (3 RP)

Prerequisites: None.
Benefit: Members of this race have a tail they can use to make attacks of opportunity with a reach of 5 feet. The tail is a natural attack that deals 1d6 points of damage plus the user's Strength modifier if Small, 1d8 points of damage plus the user's Strength modifier if Medium, or 1d10 points of damage plus 1-1/2 times the user's Strength modifier if Large.
Special: If a Large creature has the reach trait, its tail also gains reach.

So from the description this sounds like a natural attack that can ONLY be used for AOOs and also only has the normal reach of 5ft like all weapons unless your size increases which increases your natural reach with ALL weapons.

I cannot figure out why this ability is written so strangely. Why even mention that it has a 5ft reach when ALL attacks have a 5ft reach unless you are larger then medium or using a reach weapon. Or is it that it becomes the equivalent of a reach weapon when you are Large.

Also why have a natural attack that can ONLY be used for AOOS that costs 3 rp when you can get other natural attacks for only 1? This makes no sense at all. It costs 3 times as much but can't make normal attacks, only AOOs?

So firstly im trying to figure out what this is all supposed to mean.

Secondly, I'm trying to see if there is any way to extend the reach of the Slapping tail to make it into a reach weapon as concerns AOOs so that she can use her sword and other natural attacks for threatening her normal natural reach area and the Slapping Tail can make AOOs for the distance beyond that. Anyways anybody have any ideas? Other then taking levels in summoner or the Kobold Tail Weapon that has reach? I know that there were options in 3.5 but I haven't come across any that would work in this situation from pathfinder yet. Thanks in advance for any help.

[Greenish]

It does seem to be only used on AoO. I don't know why the reach is specified, or why the Str modifier multiplication doesn't seem to follow the normal natural attack rules.

As for its point cost and use limitations, it's probably because it is a standard trait while other natural attacks (except for the pretty wussy bite) are advanced traits. The developers probably didn't want standard races to sport large arrays of natural weapons usable on full attacks (but forgot it when they gave lizardfolk claws).

[Ravenica]

It also has superior damage progression to the cheaper natural weapons to bump it's price up.

[Emparawr]

hmmm. Yeah makes sense on some notes. What im wondering about now is that part about becoming large. I wonder if they were just being stupidly repetitive and letting people know that if you become large your natural reach goes up or if they meant that if you become large that this becomes a reach weapon. Hard to say based off the phrasing but part of me is inclined to think the latter as that would explain the cost of this ability a bit better.

[Greenish]

hmmm. Yeah makes sense on some notes. What im wondering about now is that part about becoming large. I wonder if they were just being stupidly repetitive and letting people know that if you become large your natural reach goes up or if they meant that if you become large that this becomes a reach weapon. Hard to say based off the phrasing but part of me is inclined to think the latter as that would explain the cost of this ability a bit better.I'm pretty sure it's the former, sadly. The tail also gains the reach (which for some terrible reason isn't baked into the Large size in ARG, just like 20' move speed isn't baked in on Small).

If you're the DM, I recommend you treat ARG as loose guidelines at best, or as a collection of ideas. If you're not, I recommend you work with your DM who understands the above.

[Emparawr]

Well yeah its just like the rules for making custom magic weapons. Although the are pretty detailed and fairly well balanced it still takes a human mind to balance them to ensure against things like Continuous True Strike. But yeah reading through it if it just meant that it increased with natural reach then they could have said that, but what they said was, its tail also gains reach. reach is a weapon trait as we know. Idk If i thought that there was a chance in hell of getting a ruling on this one id ask on paizo forums for one but they are so busy if it every happened it wouldnt be till way in the future.

Well maybe our GM will be flexible and allow her this. She just really really wants to have her tail be a reach weapon. Even if she can only use it to make aoos. Idk its a crapshoot with our dm. Sometimes he's open and reasonable and accommodating and other times hes stubborn as a mule.

[Greenish]

Well yeah its just like the rules for making custom magic weapons. Although the are pretty detailed and fairly well balancedI thought I knew what you referred to, until you said that. :smallamused:


But yeah reading through it if it just meant that it increased with natural reach then they could have said that, but what they said was, its tail also gains reach. reach is a weapon trait as we know.If you're the DM, you're free to interpret it as you wish. I personally disagree though, and don't find the "they wouldn't have said it if it was redundant" argument convincing.


Sometimes he's open and reasonable and accommodating and other times hes stubborn as a mule.Since being able to roll again to resist mind-affecting effects is a bargain as a +2 trait, I'd also pick Stubborn if I had the chance. :smallwink:

[Emparawr]

Well yeah there are wwaaaaaayy to many spells in this game to make the rules for customizing magic items completely comprehensive. They did they're best, that's why it still requires GM approval.

[Emparawr]

getting as many people as I can to flag this for FAQ over on Paizo forums if anybody also posts over there. See if we can get an official answer on this.

Pathfinder: Slapping Tail ARG (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q4cl?Pathfinder-Slapping-Tail-ARG#8)