OOTS #916 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Rolep]

Oh, man. That's interesting.

[Red.Tide]

Well... crap. I suppose this is what will force them into the rift? Also, prospects look pretty bad for Belkar.

[tadkins]

Wow, nice comic!

I'm really starting to dislike Tarquin more and more lately.

[BlasTech]

... well, that was unexpected.

Time to employ the old Plan B!

[TaiLiu]

Oh, dear. Let us see how The Order Of The Stick gets out of this situation!

[Halleflux]

Whoops....

[Clyner]

Um... wow. Can they make the rift? :smalleek:

[Andaho]

Oh Roy, how will you escape this...

[Arrowstorm122]

Aww, f***.

I guess it makes sense from Tarquin's point of view, Elan isn't the *main* main character, it's Roy's quest, so Elan killing Tarquin is a bit of a sub plot compared to the fact that the whole quest started with Roy on a mission to complete the Blood Oath. If everybody died, Elan would be the *main* main character I guess?

[gorocz]

Oh dear, looks very bad, especially for Belkar :smalleek:

[eggamagga]

Today's diplomacy check... Failed.

[Vemynal]

Quick! into the portal!!!

[thereaper]

They might have to split the party again.

[The Kind Knido]

Oh GODS, they're screwed. Maybe Durkon will make Belkar a vampire in an attempt to save him?

[Verditude]

Well, it looks like we get to explore the world in the rift after all.

[kickassfrog]

Well, this is bad.

[Don Ohnic]

Surprising twist. Into the rift then?

I guess Haley and Elan will not split the party, but follow the fearless leader.

[Darkefang]

It's kind of hard to see how this isn't going to go badly for the Order.

[B. Dandelion]

"Careful. You're starting to sound like Nale."

That line gave me a chill. And made me want to punch Tarquin in the face... more than I usually do, that is.

[Crustypeanut]

Woo, just as I was reading the older OOTS's!

[Psyren]

Durkon should be okay, Roy maybe... Belkar is screwed though.

[Ohiohi]

:vaarsuvius:

[thatSeniorGuy]

... The Order can't catch a break can they? The Rift is looking much better now.

[Zerter]

Well, up to this point I liked Tarquin, thinking he was an effective supervillain. But this is just pathetic. He is damaging his own chances of survival by trying to eliminate the group that is trying to save the world, dropping him to the level of more your run of the mill can't see the big picture kind of villain. Can't really say I like this decision.

My guess is that the Order will jump into the gate, we have a few round-up comics and that ends the arc.

[Mooplaid]

Well, at least he will be able to say "I took an arrow to the knee."

...and the head, eye, foot, spleen, heart, etc. etc.

:S

C'mooon V, pop in and nuke some mooks. :P

[Rendel Nep]

So does that mean Tarquin was up to this point in de-Nale denial about Elan's role in the party.?

[Dracon1us]

holy crap on a cracker

great reference to star wars...with the same deep dramatic feelings...Tarquin means business


I bet V. will save the day... I don't want to see another disintegrate\gust of wind with Roy's remains...

[Rezby]

Yes roy, lifting your sword up in the air is definitely going to save you from the bajillion arrows flying into your face.

[Eldest]

Unexpected, interesting, and worrysome. Durkon's down there, Roy's a smart cookie, V is due back vaugely soon (depends on how long they spent talking about the family and such), and I don't see Belkar contributing to this fight. That means, by my own personal superstitions, Belkar is gonna save the day.

[manuelj]

It never rains but it pours for our heroes, doesn't it?

[Nimrod's Son]

Next strip: a stray allosaurus runs in front of the arrows - deflecting the bolts, confusing the soldiers and generally saving the day.

[terenes]

Belkar is so calm in face of his death. But check it out: Durkons fiend is still there. He can Greater Teleport them from the crater.

[Sabeki]

Well, I guess we go into the rift!

[Zordrath]

Oh wow. Whatever I was expecting, it wasn't that. Tarquin's becoming less and less likeable lately, but damn if he isn't an effective villain.

[Henry the 57th]

Tarquin shows more and more of his evils with each passing strip. Killing his son, then trying to kill the bulk of the oots just to make the story "better". I hope he chokes on his "drama". :smallmad:

Also, how will they escape this one? The Rift? V? The IFCC? Not at all? :smalleek:

[Arrowstorm122]

... The Order can't catch a break can they? The Rift is looking much better now.

How is Elan and Haley going to reach it though?

[StClair]

"Careful. You're starting to sound like Nale."

That line gave me a chill.

Same here.

[Lord Raziere]

so, looks like Tarquin was going to kill them after all, but for different reasons that thinking that Roy is a supporting character- he knows that Elan is just support and wants him to become a hero.

so yeah. the tension is finally broken, Tarquin has finally screwed up big time, and now since they won't split the party, already done that last book, so now its time to go through the rift! probably, cause no way out and even if V comes back, there is no way to teleport out so….

yeah, its all collapsing now. the ball is ROLLING. also.

V coming back in about….soon….very soon, like in the next few strips soon.

the irony is that his plan would've succeeded if just let his son be a support role. but no. Tarquin likes things to be done right no matter what, and he thinks the hero should always lead the charge….and Elan isn't.

anyways…to Riftworld!

[Curaced]

To quote schlock mercenary: Crap on a crutch!

[Tsriel]

Yes roy, lifting your sword up in the air is definitely going to save you from the bajillion arrows flying into your face.

No, but a Wind Wall spell from Durkon might. Wouldn't stop the advancing soldiers though. Maybe another Wall of Stone?

[MoonCat]

Ah, the days back when it was Roy's daddy issues driving the plot. Simpler times.

[talkamancer]

Punch a bunny...LOL

[Mattarias, King.]

....Protection from Arrows please. :smalleek:

[Clyner]

Tarquin is SO dead

[Felhammer]

Run Into The Snarl World!

[Onyavar]

Escaping into the rift back as an option?

Or will Elan do something about the triple-screwed situation?

[Hurkle]

I do say, the cliffhangers over the last 20-30 strips have absolutely killed me.

[DeadMG]

Time for Plan Q: Rift Escape!

[Arrowstorm122]

Escaping into the rift back as an option?

Or will Elan do something about the triple-screwed situation?

Durkon, Roy and Belkar could probably make some moves to keep them alive long enough to move to the rift, but as far as they're concerned, that might still be suicide. V might be able to persuade them, or the arrows and soldiers will, but I do question how Haley and Elan is going to jump into the rift with them from where they're standing.

[Iamyourking]

Belkar is so calm in face of his death. But check it out: Durkons fiend is still there. He can Greater Teleport them from the crater.

Not unless he kills them and cuts them into hunks of meat less than 50 pounds.

[factotum]

Yes roy, lifting your sword up in the air is definitely going to save you from the bajillion arrows flying into your face.

I don't think he *is* raising it in the air--he's probably just taking it from its resting position on his back. You know, so he can actually fight if required?

I'm sure somebody mentioned Tarquin would try to kill Roy in the #915 discussion thread--I didn't think it was likely, and I may even have said so. Guess this shows that you should never bet on me where it comes to predicting the plot!

[Buretsu]

This would really be a good time for V to show up...

[DougTheHead]

So did Belkar manage to ingest any of Durkon's healing potions? Because if not, he's a goner. Maybe V will show up and cast Mass Protection From Arrows at the last possible moment.

[Dracon1us]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09n0qd_n4c0

[Sunken Valley]

I thought Tarquin new Roy was hero, 863 implies he knows. He also says he wants to fight Roy's tactical mind. This makes no sense?

Also,no rift escape, Durkon can't cross water.

[eaglewingz]

Time to employ the old Plan B!

:belkar: Really?
Because that always struck me as our Plan A...

[Porthos]

I thought Tarquin new Roy was hero, 863 implies he knows. He also says he wants to fight Roy's tactical mind. This makes no sense?

He wanted to hear it straight from Elan's mouth.

[Arrowstorm122]

I thought Tarquin new Roy was hero, 863 implies he knows. He also says he wants to fight Roy's tactical mind. This makes no sense?

Also,no rift escape, Durkon can't cross water.

What if they use a flying carpet?

[HalfTangible]

My reaction. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-pi8fPCCys)

...

Wait, did I ever actually post that prediction?

****. :smallfrown:

[Porthos]

It's OK every one. I'm sure Tarquin has a really good reason to do this.

Roy's holding Elan back! Elan will be really really competant without him!!

Um.

Without Roy, Elan can focus on the real quest!! It'll be so much better than this story!

Err.

By killing his bestest friend ever, Tarquin makes sure that Elan will hate him forever and ever!

Nah.

This must be a "accept my help or I (keep) kill(ing) your friends".

Yeah. THAT'S the ticket. :smalltongue:


"Careful. You're starting to sound like Nale."

That line gave me a chill.
He's only saying it because he cares. :smallwink:

It's late at night and I'm feeling a little snarky. :smalltongue:

====


No, but a Wind Wall spell from Durkon might. Wouldn't stop the advancing soldiers though. Maybe another Wall of Stone?

No high level spells for Durkon yet.

[r2d2go]

All he needed was a little damage reduction... Seriously though, DR 10/anything except piercing or slashing would make him basically immune to damage here. Even without, his armor class should make all but natural 20's do nothing, and make most natural 20's deal only normal damage. If he's healed up to his full, 100's of HP glory with a Heal, he should be able to take the damage and flee into the rift. Belkar, on the other hand, may be screwed if the arrows aren't targeting specifically Roy. I'd like to note that if Durkon has the proper spells (like Visage of the Diety) he could drop that on the targeted PC's, and then slaughter... basically the entire army, making sure to spend some time on Tarquin and his buddies who can do more than 1d6+1 damage with a swing.

[Porthos]

By the way, the pun in the title?

Truly truly horrible. :smalltongue:

[Dracon1us]

I thought Tarquin new Roy was hero, 863 implies he knows. He also says he wants to fight Roy's tactical mind. This makes no sense?

Also,no rift escape, Durkon can't cross water.

first of all, don't believe anything that Tarquins said
it's always a long con
second, Tarquin deeply respects Roy...that's the main reason to want him dead.

[Onyavar]

Durkon, Roy and Belkar could probably make some moves to keep them alive long enough to move to the rift, but as far as they're concerned, that might still be suicide. V might be able to persuade them, or the arrows and soldiers will, but I do question how Haley and Elan is going to jump into the rift with them from where they're standing.

Which means that Elan and Haley will rescue Haleys dad while the rest of OotS is in riftworld. Maybe together with V, if V is not also escaping into the rift.

Durkon has Water Walk, to help Roy with the ocean thing.

Ohoh! And maybe the oracle saw Belkar taking an arrow and then falling into the rift, and then Belkar disappeared from its radar and never appeared again, because Belkar is staying in riftworld - possible, right? So the oracle assumed that Belkar is killed here?

[rafaruggi]

Aaaaand, now it's the time for Vaarsuvius to come back.

[Inesius]

I think this is the time for V, too. :smallamused:

[Thanatosia]

Well, up to this point I liked Tarquin, thinking he was an effective supervillain. But this is just pathetic. He is damaging his own chances of survival by trying to eliminate the group that is trying to save the world, dropping him to the level of more your run of the mill can't see the big picture kind of villain. Can't really say I like this decision.
I'd suggest you don't understand Tarquin. He's made it pretty clear he doesn't really care about his own chances of survival, he's not in this for any sort of immortality or live forever ploy - what he's doing is all about engineering his story, and for the best story he has to make his son the primary protagonist, which is exactly what his actions are trying to accomplish. Tarquin can see the big picture, but he's trying to paint over it.

[Secris]

Does V or Durkula have access to any sort of mass protection from arrows spell, or something of similar use? Is gust of wind powerful enough to protect them? We know V has that.

[ben-zayb]

Wow. I've seen at least two posts who called something like this happening once Tarquin caught up with the party standing. Gratz!

And great work, as usual, Giant! I guess we'll get the Rift callers right next strip. :smallcool:

[Arrowstorm122]

Which means that Elan and Haley will rescue Haleys dad while the rest of OotS is in riftworld. Maybe together with V, if V is not also escaping into the rift.

Durkon has Water Walk, to help Roy with the ocean thing.

Ohoh! And maybe the oracle saw Belkar taking an arrow and then falling into the rift, and then Belkar disappeared from its radar and never appeared again, because Belkar is staying in riftworld - possible, right? So the oracle assumed that Belkar is killed here?

Maybe... Don't know why he'd stay in the rift though.

Also, enough with the party splits!

[Tom Lehmann]

Wind walk would get Belkar, Roy, and Durkon out of there...

[Porthos]

To everyone commenting about the arrows flying in, that's just the initial wave.

There's also dozens of people streaming in to attack the rest of Team OotS.

Fighting is probably not the way out of this mess.

[Cerlis]

"Careful. You're starting to sound like Nale."

That line gave me a chill. And made me want to punch Tarquin in the face... more than I usually do, that is.

That is what i was saying before. Tarquinn mercilessly killing his own son simply because he doesnt want his protection showed that Tarquinn would do the exact same thing to Elan. All Elan needs to do is create the correct situation for it.

So the fact that Nale kinda deserved it made Tarquinn's role in that particular stabbing horrible.

[Connington]

Well, up to this point I liked Tarquin, thinking he was an effective supervillain. But this is just pathetic. He is damaging his own chances of survival by trying to eliminate the group that is trying to save the world, dropping him to the level of more your run of the mill can't see the big picture kind of villain. Can't really say I like this decision.

My guess is that the Order will jump into the gate, we have a few round-up comics and that ends the arc.

I've seen a lot of people saying this, and I think you're assuming that Tarquin has access to a lot more information than he's shown to have.

Keep in mind that Tarquin doesn't know much about the threat Xykon poses. He's aware that his goal is to destroy or conquer the world, "or whatever" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html). Nale told him something, but he was both ignorant and trying to convince his father that Xykon was a "friend of a friend" of his. It's a DnD world; there are lots of evil scene-chewing villains planning to use MacGuffins to rule the world. Since the world generally keeps on not getting conquered, it can be assumed that they tend to fail.

Additionally, just because he's wise to the narrative conventions doesn't mean he knows exactly how far along his son is in this evil lich story he's got going on. He certainly doesn't seem to be aware that there's only one gate left, and that the roadblocks keeping Team Evil from going forward have been lifted.

[Dekinjein]

They might have to split the party again.

Their top halves split from their bottom halves.

[Gift Jeraff]

So yeah, Tarquin basically threatened to kill Elan, is over-antagonizing Haley, and now ordered the rest of the Order to be executed. Will there still be people who insist Tarquin is the Order's BFFAEAE whose presence is good for them and the world? Sadly, yes.

Anyway, I figure Mr. Scruffy will get hurt/killed, then Belkar will rage and go out in a blaze of glory atop a pile of corpses. Durkon will somehow be able to help Belkar and/or Scruffy, but will refuse due to them being obstacles in buying Roy's trust (see: stabbing and hissing earlier). Roy won't witness any of this, and will just have to take Durkon's word.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

[thatSeniorGuy]

By the way, the pun in the title?

Truly truly horrible. :smalltongue:

Indeed. ...

[Happy Gravity]

First reaction:

"What an ass."

Second reaction:

"Well, that's why they brought the army. Why bring it if you're not going to use it? That would be lame."

I seem to have an inner :elan:

[shadowpriest]

Now let's see how much Durkon's damage reduction is worth :smallamused:

[Everyl]

Well, I don't think anyone called that one, though I could be wrong.

[Caex]

Oh snap! This is one I didn't see coming. Maybe the "they'll dive into the rift" folks will finally have their day, or maybe Roy'll pull some miracle out here. V's impeding reappearance could help, but it'd be hard to see how that would get them out of this.

[zimmerwald1915]

I bet V. will save the day... I don't want to see another disintegrate\gust of wind with Roy's remains...
I'll take that bet. How does a hundred quatloos sound? Also, for purposes of this wager, what constitutes "saving the day"?

Fun fact: The dialogue from strip 897 to strip 816 takes nineteen minutes and fifteen seconds to speak at a reasonable pace. If - and this is a monstrous "if" - that time corresponds to actual in-comic time, V's still got a minute and twenty seconds in the fiends' custody. If - and this is much more likely, seeing as the strips from to 901 to 909 take up less than two minutes of in-comic time while they take considerably longer (EDIT: seven minutes and twenty seconds) to read out loud - the dialogue takes up less in-comic time than the time it takes me to speak it, she's got considerably more time in the penalty box.

[Coldwind]

Is there any chance for Belkar to dodge all the arrows pointed at him? If he is not dead now, he won't be until end of the story I guess.

[Aldrakan]

So Tarquin has gone from trying to protect his son, killing him, dismissing him, and using that death as a veiled threat to his other son over the course of a few minutes. Not hard to see why he got impatient with Malack, I mean his kids had been dead two whole years.

I'd been wondering when and how Tarquin's belief that his son was the main character would become relevant. I'd predicted it would trip him up, but Elan kinda messed up that possibility by telling him Roy was the leader.

Tarquin still seems to have a blind spot regarding Elan's role though. He knows he's a bard, how much of a frontline combatant does he really expect him to be?

[Arrowstorm122]

I'll take that bet. How does a hundred quatloos sound? Also, for purposes of this wager, what constitutes "saving the day"?

Fun fact: The dialogue from strip 897 to strip 816 takes nineteen minutes and fifteen seconds to speak at a reasonable pace. If - and this is a monstrous "if" - that time corresponds to actual in-comic time, V's still got a minute and twenty seconds in the fiends' custody. If - and this is much more likely, seeing as the strips from to 901 to 909 take up less than two minutes of in-comic time while they take considerably longer to read out loud - the dialogue takes up less in-comic time than the time it takes me to speak it, she's got considerably more time in the penalty box.

Haley did say Tarquin killed Nale two minutes ago in the comic after.

[DaggerPen]

... welp.

That's not good.

... and of course, Belkar will drop in like one hit.

Crap.

[M.A.D]

Wow... that was awesome! There are SO many things I'd like to comment on this strip :smallbiggrin:

Well, firstly, I totally didn't expect Tarquin to order the execution or the three in the crater right away, thought the moment I saw the title I knew that someone is being executed :smalleek:

To those who think Tarquin is being stupid for killing his chance of ruling the world, try looking at it from his perspective. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, since that's debatable, but what he is THINKING is that he's the central villain of this *boop*, the main antagonist, the Big Bad, the hero's rival, and the Final Boss that everyone needs to defeat. And according to traditional bardic narrative, he WILL be defeated, so it pretty much doesn't matter what he does or who he does it against. He could kill Elan's whole party now, including Elan himself, and someone somewhere will just resurrect them. In fact, MUST resurrect them, else where would the plot of the book go, without the main characters? However, that doesn't mean he is doing what he does out of contempt or any illogical reason, either. No.

The way I see it, Tarquin is going through lengths to ensure that HE is the main villain of the comic, because the realistic side in him says that if Elan continued to follow Roy, then he'd become a supportive character in someone else's story, and Tarquin, in turn, would become the side-quest. His traditional dramatic expertise should allow him to know that much, and he's not accepting it. So, as weird as it sounds, Tarquin is killing Elan's party to ensure that Elan would eventually defeat him. And somehow finish his little side quest of saving the world from total annihilation before dinner. That bit is Elan's problem, not his.

[super dark33]

Well, Roy still has a humongous cleavage and the soldiers don't seem really tough, he can make it!
In one round even!

[rafaruggi]

I'll take that bet. How does a hundred quatloos sound? Also, for purposes of this wager, what constitutes "saving the day"?

Fun fact: The dialogue from strip 897 to strip 816 takes nineteen minutes and fifteen seconds to speak at a reasonable pace. If - and this is a monstrous "if" - that time corresponds to actual in-comic time, V's still got a minute and twenty seconds in the fiends' custody. If - and this is much more likely, seeing as the strips from to 901 to 909 take up less than two minutes of in-comic time while they take considerably longer to read out loud - the dialogue takes up less in-comic time than the time it takes me to speak it, she's got considerably more time in the penalty box.

I don't think the Giant uses a scientific method to measure time passing in the strips. In plot-speed-seconds, I think V. is coming. Wouldn't be a stretch, either, s/he has been there for a while.

[DaggerPen]

This sure would be a good time for :vaarsuvius: Protection from Arrows.

[Everyl]

Tarquin still seems to have a blind spot regarding Elan's role though. He knows he's a bard, how much of a frontline combatant does he really expect him to be?

I don't think he wants Elan to be on the front line, he wants him to be calling the shots. Right now, Elan's usual role in battle is essentially "cheerleader," and while he's been moving a little away from that since getting his prestige class, he's not really leading any more than before.

[eilandesq]

Looks like Tarquin is going to need an entry in the "Villain Ball" category at TVTropes, because he has seized it thoroughly with both hands. I can see several things happening here:



1. Tarquin trained these troops, after all--this could be a pre-planned manuever to impress on Elan that he'd better play ball, with all of the shots missing.

2. V. shows up and blocks the first volley with wall of force or something similar, after which the four OotS members in the crater flee, using the Rift as cover.

3. Durkon defends them somehow (depending on what he has left) and those in the crater either flee as in #2 or risk going into the rift, with Durkon perhaps casting Water Walk on them to deal with the middle of the ocean problem.

4. "something else" that leaves all of them (except perhaps Belkar due to the prophecy) alive/unlive and well.



Of course, this still leaves Elan and Haley under the control of Tarquin, so to say that things look grim is to point out the obvious. :-(

[Paseo H]

Well. **** just got more realer, again.

This is some truly impressive writing. When you can keep raising the stakes even after the stakes have already been raised threefold. I honestly did not see this coming.

All I can say is...

Only V or the catgirl paladin from Team Tarquin can save them now. :smallwink:

[zimmerwald1915]

I don't think the Giant uses a scientific method to measure time passing in the strips. In plot-speed-seconds, I think V. is coming.
Neither do I. But that's the point. Time in the comic tends to pass slower than the time it takes the read the strips aloud. And it takes less time to read the strips aloud than V had on the clock originally. Ergo, it is more reasonable to guess that V still has time, a lot of time, on the clock than to guess that she'll be showing up to save the day.

[hajo]

Run Into The Snarl World!
Getting the advancing army to run into the rift would be much more effective !
Our heroes "just" need to get out of the way (windwalk, invisibility, teleport, whatever).

[Goosefeather]

"Executive Order"? *groan*

Nah, the way I see it, Tarquin is just doing some head-hunting for his organisation :smalltongue:

[Connington]

Looks like Tarquin is going to need an entry in the "Villain Ball" category at TVTropes, because he has seized it thoroughly with both hands. I can see several things happening here:

If screwing with the PCs when there doesn't seem to be anything they can do to stop him counts as a villain ball, Tarquin latched onto it the second he explained his theory of winning as a villain. That's just begging to have Elan find a way to make him die in obscurity.

[Reks]

I think this will force Elan to try and fight Tarquin, maybe it's what he'd like to happen?
I really don't see Élan just sitting there and letting it happen.
Mmm also the party might get split up again with Roy, Durkon and Belkar jumping into the rift, Haley and Elan running away into the desert (once they see everyone else escape) and V possibly wandering the desert looking for everyone.

Mmm actually V might just use her people finding spells instead.

Either way, this caught me by surprise ._.

[Porthos]

Looks like Tarquin is going to need an entry in the "Villain Ball" category at TVTropes, because he has seized it thoroughly with both hands.

But he hasn't.

See, one of the things that people get wrong about Tarquin isn't that he isn't Genre Savvy. He's Wrong Genre Savvy.

At least when it comes to the Order.

He expects things to turn out a certain way. He has ever since Elan showed up on his doorstep.

And now that Elan is refusing to play ball? Now that The Story isn't going the way he expects? Well, time to re-write the story. Which had, obviously gone off the rails. Time to get Elan back on track and being The Hero like he is supposed to be. Time to cut down Elan's Mentor (as had been noted above) and for Elan to Take a Level in Badass. Time to "Kill The Spare" as it were and focus Elan on what needs to be done.

Villain Ball? Hardly. He's seizing the plot and trying to set it right.

It's a perfectly in-character response for someone who is in the wrong story, and is acting accordiongly.

[Joseph_Lavode]

Well now. That's... interesting. :smalleek:

I honestly have no idea how they could get out of this one. Belkar is probably only an arrow or two from death, although Durkon could probably sit in that rain of arrows for a while with no problems. On the other hand maybe it's time for V to resurface.

Also, Tarquin really does have a blind spot with Elan, thinking Roy is holding him back.

[M.A.D]

Looks like Tarquin is going to need an entry in the "Villain Ball" category at TVTropes, because he has seized it thoroughly with both hands. I can see several things happening here:



1. Tarquin trained these troops, after all--this could be a pre-planned manuever to impress on Elan that he'd better play ball, with all of the shots missing.

2. V. shows up and blocks the first volley with wall of force or something similar, after which the four OotS members in the crater flee, using the Rift as cover.

3. Durkon defends them somehow (depending on what he has left) and those in the crater either flee as in #2 or risk going into the rift, with Durkon perhaps casting Water Walk on them to deal with the middle of the ocean problem.

4. "something else" that leaves all of them (except perhaps Belkar due to the prophecy) alive/unlive and well.



Of course, this still leaves Elan and Haley under the control of Tarquin, so to say that things look grim is to point out the obvious. :-(

Or all three of them died, and the next book is titled Don't Kill the Party. I mean, seriously, 30 crossbolts should be able to take down even a half-dragon, and yet Roy and the others are fighting in the shades now. There're like 300 of them coming from every sides.

V probably has Protection from Arrows prepared, but she can only cast it on one person at a time, and Belkar won't be the first choice. Durkon might seem obvious enough that he's a vampire, but even V showed up, I don't expect she could somehow protect all three of them.

But on the other hand, Durkon most certainly won't die from the arrows, being vampire and all. Roy is a walking HP bag, and V might really choose to protect him when/if she showed up, and Belkar has a Ring of Jumping +20 that might get him a high enough jump to avoid all the arrows, though I fully expect him to die once he fall down on the ground.

[Icalasari]

Oh snap! This is one I didn't see coming. Maybe the "they'll dive into the rift" folks will finally have their day, or maybe Roy'll pull some miracle out here. V's impeding reappearance could help, but it'd be hard to see how that would get them out of this.

Doesn't he have Chain Lightning, which could nuke a good chunk of the army in one shot?

[WindStruck]

Once again I must quote Belkar...

:belkar: "That's a lot of mooks."

[M.A.D]

Doesn't he have Chain Lightning, which could nuke a good chunk of the army in one shot?

Maybe. Can it nuke a good chunk of arrow that was released from their bolts and heading for V's teammates, though?

[Anarion]

Tarquin certainly does love dramatic tension, doesn't he? I don't think that volley of arrows can kill Roy, but Belkar, with his con-drained low hp, might be in trouble.


Neither do I. But that's the point. Time in the comic tends to pass slower than the time it takes the read the strips aloud. And it takes less time to read the strips aloud than V had on the clock originally. Ergo, it is more reasonable to guess that V still has time, a lot of time, on the clock than to guess that she'll be showing up to save the day.

While I make no claims on V's arrival or lack thereof, I do think that a final panel like the one just drawn, showing everything about to hit, but not actually hitting, nearly guarantees that events will not proceed in the way they would appear to from that panel.

Doesn't he have Chain Lightning, which could nuke a good chunk of the army in one shot?

Even a regular lightning bolt could mess up a fairly large portion of the army, since it just blasts a line through them. That's not really the point though, since Tarquin has several casters and losing a chunk of the army doesn't accomplish much.

[Porthos]

Doesn't he have Chain Lightning, which could nuke a good chunk of the army in one shot?

Chain Lightning is capped out to the caster's level when it comes to number of targets.

So, 15 or so.

[zimmerwald1915]

Doesn't he have Chain Lightning, which could nuke a good chunk of the army in one shot?
What do you think "a good chunk" is? Chain lightning might kill between fifteen and twenty mooks. There are a couple hundred mooks, plus half of Tarquin's party, arrayed around the lip of the crater.

EDIT: ninja'd


While I make no claims on V's arrival or lack thereof, I do think that a final panel like the one just drawn, showing everything about to hit, but not actually hitting, nearly guarantees that events will not proceed in the way they would appear to from that panel.
Just as you say, that says nothing about the timing of V's arrival. Far more likely that the Order does something clever themselves rather than that something happens to them.

[Kurald Galain]

Wow, and here I thought Tarquin was smart...

[Anon Vulture]

Was I the only one going:

"Tarquin is going to kill everyone else if Elan/Haley do not respond correctly."
"That...was exactly the wrong thing to say. They're all dead."

The death of Nale was a pretty good threat, I thought. Oh and the giant army + Tarquin's low-epic teammates showing up should also be pretty intimidating.

If both Elan and Haley were not so...Chaotic Goodish, and if Elan had a better Int/Wis score, a good Diplomacy/Bluff check or two could have gone a long way. Tarquin wants his authority acknowledged. Acknowledge it as best you can, get your teammates out of there, and plot to kill him off later after you save the world and gain a couple of levels in the process.

But characterwise I guess this was going to happen. If Elan was some flavor of Neutral smooth-talker it wouldn't really be Elan would it?

[Bulldog Psion]

Hail and farewell, Belkar. :smalleek:

[Antipode]

Putting in my two cents that if Vaarsuvius is showing up, it's with a well-timed Forcecage.

Not 100% on that, but it'd certainly be a quick way of ensuring they don't get ventilated here.

[DaggerPen]

I'll take that bet. How does a hundred quatloos sound? Also, for purposes of this wager, what constitutes "saving the day"?

You're the betting kind, eh? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298504) :P

Also - in a way, it's fitting for something big to happen to Belkar here, whether it's him dying, Mr. Scruffy dying (please no)/getting wounded, etc.

I mean, the last time Tarquin ordered someone killed and the last panel was them getting shot by a bunch of arrows, Belkar intervened in a pretty big way.

And he already went ballistic over Mr. Scruffy getting shot once...

[Dr Mushroom]

I feel like if Elan dived into the crater, Tarquin would have to let up, for a few moments at least, to instruct his men not to aim at him. Enough time for V to arrive and save the day?

[HandofShadows]

Oh, #@$! :smalleek:

That was totaly uncalled for. Any chance V might help in this situation? :smalleek:

[Yendor]

Tarquin's just getting pathetic now. For all his supposed cleverness, he's descending further into moustache-twirling, puppy-kicking villainy, because his ego can't handle the fact that his son isn't the hero of the story.

[Porthos]

Tarquin's just getting pathetic now. For all his supposed cleverness, he's descending further into moustache-twirling, puppy-kicking villainy, because his ego can't handle the fact that his son isn't the hero of the story.

Live by the Tropes, die by the Tropes. :smallwink:

[DaggerPen]

Tarquin's just getting pathetic now. For all his supposed cleverness, he's descending further into moustache-twirling, puppy-kicking villainy, because his ego can't handle the fact that his son isn't the hero of the story.

Don't you mean bunny-punching?

[Tricia]

Being an evil tyrant, I can handle. Lighting people on fire, that's fine. Killing Nale? Completely understandable.

But threatening to punch bunnies? That's just too far. Truly, Tarquin is the greatest evil ever to exist.

[Porthos]

BTW, to explain the pun in the title if people aren't seeing it?

It's normally pronounced as 'Ex-ec-u-tive' Order. As in the President of the US. Or, more colloquially, an executive of a company.

However, one could mispronounce it as 'Ex-e-cut(e)-ive' Order. As in, "An Order to Execute Someone".

Which, well, it was. :smalltongue:

Thus a truly awful, horrendous, wonderful pun. :smallcool:

[kxm]

Well, it looks like this might be time for the rift escape everyone's been speculating about. I'm not a spellcraft expert, is it possible that Durkon casts Water Walk again? Though I'm not sure why he would have it prepared in the desert.

In the midst of Tarquin's evilness, I did laugh out loud at Elan's bunny quip, though.

[Hytheter]

Well, Roy still has a humongous cleavage

What are you talking about? The gender changing belt thing was hundreds of strips ago!

:p

[Hopeless]

:vaarsuvius:

Yes I figure Wall of Force

[DaggerPen]

Being an evil tyrant, I can handle. Lighting people on fire, that's fine. Killing Nale? Completely understandable.

But threatening to punch bunnies? That's just too far. Truly, Tarquin is the greatest evil ever to exist.

This comment + that icon, though. XD

[Edhelras]

Durkon has Water Walk, to help Roy with the ocean thing.

Why on solid Earth would Durkon prepare Water Walk - in the middle of a friggin' desert?
The last time Durkon prepared it, it was quite reasonably because he was living upon a boat and wearing heavy armor.

[Krim]

No, but a Wind Wall spell from Durkon might. Wouldn't stop the advancing soldiers though. Maybe another Wall of Stone?

Melee soldier will crumble like wet toilet paper. They are what, lv 3, 4 warriors? Not gonna cut it againts Roy and Durkula. It is the bazillion arrows that is a problem...

[Hytheter]

Melee soldier will crumble like wet toilet paper. They are what, lv 3, 4 warriors? Not gonna cut it againts Roy and Durkula. It is the bazillion arrows that is a problem...

Roy maybe. Durkula won't even take damage from those arrows.

[Goosefeather]

It's normally pronounced as 'Ex-ec-U-tive' Order. As in the President of the US. Or, more colloquially, an executive of a company.


Really? Interesting - in my (British) accent, the stress falls on the second syllable (i.e. ex-EC-u-tive) rather than the third.

[Orange Knight]

Live by the Tropes, die by the Tropes. :smallwink:
Sig'd
Brilliant. Villain Ball, Wrong Genre Savvy, Complete Monster... They're all coming together to swing round and hit him in the face sooner or later.

I suspect Belkar is in some serious danger right now. V should be back soon, hopefully (and possibly with Sabine), but there's not that much he can do. At least he should have gotten over committing Familicide by now.

I could see a retreat to the rift, but then the Giant does love to surprise us. I'm pretty sure he is also a contender for World Champion Steak Raiser.

[eilandesq]

Why on solid Earth would Durkon prepare Water Walk - in the middle of a friggin' desert?
The last time Durkon prepared it, it was quite reasonably because he was living upon a boat and wearing heavy armor.

For the same reason that he somehow decided that the "Windy Canyon" was so-named because it had a lot of winding passages, not because of the high winds there and in spite of the completely distinctive spoken pronunciations of "windy" for those two meanings (as Haley and V quietly lampshaded in #837)? Who knows what odd reasoning goes on between the ears of a (now undead) dwarven cleric?

[Yendor]

Don't you mean bunny-punching?

He's a very busy tyrant. I'm sure there's lots of small creatures he could do horrible things to.

What he needs is for someone to swing a wrecking ball through the fourth wall and give him copies of the books. Let's see how he reacts to his only appearance to date being an offhand mention by Nale in strip 50.

[The Kind Knido]

Just watch The Snarl decide to make an appearance finally. There's only one more gate left and it's got quite a lot to tear apart now. Then again, if past strips are any indication, The Snarl may not even exist.

What if the destruction of all these gates and the continued expansion of the rifts is actually unraveling the world inside them and bringing The Snarl back?

Wouldn't it just be so fitting for The Snarl to reach out and kill the Army of the Empire of Blood AND Tarquin? That guy doesn't deserve his "dramatic story" to unfold as he pleases. Remember earlier? "I won't let you hurt people for 10 more years, Dad!"

Sure, Elan may not kill him, and likely won't, but that won't stop The Snarl from doing it if it truly exists or ever really did.

Regarding the IFCC? I dunno, maybe they're just some Eastern Pantheon Gods who want to prove through subtle crap that they never died and The Snarl is a pile of terrible lies and they just want the other Pantheons' creations to go down the tubes for a while more or something along those lines.

EDIT: Yeah, you can clearly see that I am neutral when it comes to the debate on the existence of The Snarl. I know it probably doesn't or hasn't ever existed, but I also want it to make an appearance. I remember when Lord Shojo said in response to Durkon that it was more effective against Gods; perhaps it will be a fair, but insanely hard final boss fight for The Order?

The story gives me Final Fantasy V vibes here, guys. The Order of the Scribble (The Dawn Warriors) seal away a horrible evil that was a massive danger to the world (ExDeath) who then threatens the world again and has to be destroyed by The Order of the Stick (The Light Warriors).

[Doxkid]

I really love T. No one else has the means, desire and ability to kill people off like this.

[McDouggal]

Thoughts:

If it comes down to a straight up fight, I'm reasonably certain that Roy and Durkon can mop the floor with these soldiers. Roy has Great Cleave and 3(?) attacks a round to use it on, I think Durkon has enough DR that he gets to ignore the mooks.

Belkar, on the other hand, is built more towards assassination than massive fights. Putting him vs. the mooks normally is a no brainer for him, but with his lowered CON, he's probably going to be the reason that the Order has to fall back.

If V comes back, then we get to have fun. Aren't all of hir combat spells still up for today?

[deworde]

Okay, so Roy, Belkar and Fangs McScottieDwarf into the rift; Haley, Elan and The Thrice-Damned One on a wacky adventure to save Haley's Dad? Awesome.

[Porthos]

Really? Interesting - in my (British) accent, the stress falls on the second syllable (i.e. ex-EC-u-tive) rather than the third.

Could be just a regional thing. Or I was indeed putting the stress on the wrong syllable (It's late at night, after all :smalltongue:). Mostly I just wanted to get the difference between Executive and Execute across. :smallsmile:

[Ridureyu]

I have no clue what's going to happen next strip.

But I think Tarquin is about to fulfill his purpose in the story, and Be Removed soon.

[Cavenskull]

Really? Interesting - in my (British) accent, the stress falls on the second syllable (i.e. ex-EC-u-tive) rather than the third.
What you describe is the correct pronunciation in the US as well. I've never heard anyone put the stress on the third syllable in 'executive'.

[Edhelras]

For the same reason that he somehow decided that the "Windy Canyon" was so-named because it had a lot of winding passages, not because of the high winds there and in spite of the completely distinctive spoken pronunciations of "windy" for those two meanings (as Haley and V quietly lampshaded in #837)? Who knows what odd reasoning goes on between the ears of a (now undead) dwarven cleric?

I still think it's pretty much a total waste of 3rd level slots to prepare Water Walk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/waterWalk.htm) while in the middle of a desert. Actually, I cannae believe it.

Furthermore, it would be a challenge for Durkon to cast Water Walk while immersed in ocean beyond the rift. His Swim checks must be awful, with all that armor and shield and all, and Swim not even a class skill for him.
As for casting before entering - what with all those arrows, and the horde of mooks closing in - Durkon would have a hard time doing any spellcasting without having his spell fizzle.

And most of all - and quite important for the entire speculation regarding "jump into the rift": Will Durkola actually be able to cross the water visible through the rift? Is it "running water" (or is that only applied to streams and rivers?) and forbidden for vampires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm)? Maybe the entire rift-option is unavailable to Durkon.

[Jiggs]

So what will it be 'Enterance V from the left' or 'Exit through the Rift to the right' ?

[RMS Oceanic]

I have the distinct impression this is Tarquin's swansong. His major flaw as a character has always been his inability to understand other people, so I'd say a tangental meta-weakness is being unable to appreciate any story outside his own. He's trying to make this the story of Elan overcoming his Father, when it's really the story of six people saving the world and developing into better people that in someways defy and others embrace the conventions of the genre.

By trying to kill the Order, Tarquin as a character has laid his cards on the table, and whether he is defeated for good here or is just thwarted and becomes a recurring villain, his character feels essentially complete. The traits that both his sons inherited have been laid bare for all to see, and we see how they work when placed in the same man. The only question is whether that arc is closed now, or is delayed for another time.

Or maybe it's too soon since I watched DS9's "Waltz" snd SF Debris's character analysis of Gul Dukat and I'm seeing too many similarities. :smalltongue:

[TRH]

So what will it be 'Enterance V from the left' or 'Exit through the Rift to the right' ?

In this arc, it's never been a bad idea to bet against V, but I don't think vampires and water mix well, so it's kind of a poser. I'd sooner bet on a straight TPK than V, however, so Rift seems like my first guess.

[Porthos]

What you describe is the correct pronunciation in the US as well. I've never heard anyone put the stress on the third syllable in 'executive'.

I've edited out the stress emphasis in the post.

Can we go back to taking about the actual pun I was pointing out? :smallwink: :smallsmile:

[gellerche]

Could someone explain to me what Tarquin's army is? They look semi-transparent, but their arrows are real (or, at least, they look real). Or is this some kind of psychic thing so that Tarquin could save on transportation costs?

[The Kind Knido]

I have the distinct impression this is Tarquin's swansong. His major flaw as a character has always been his inability to understand other people, so I'd say a tangental meta-weakness is being unable to appreciate any story outside his own. He's trying to make this the story of Elan overcoming his Father, when it's really the story of six people saving the world and developing into better people that in someways defy and others embrace the conventions of the genre.

By trying to kill the Order, Tarquin as a character has laid his cards on the table, and whether he is defeated for good here or is just thwarted and becomes a recurring villain, his character feels essentially complete. The traits that both his sons inherited have been laid bare for all to see, and we see how they work when placed in the same man. The only question is whether that arc is closed now, or is delayed for another time.

Or maybe it's too soon since I watched DS9's "Waltz" snd SF Debris's character analysis of Gul Dukat and I'm seeing too many similarities. :smalltongue:

That is certainly persuasive. It really does seem like Tarquin's character is finished or at least coming to a close. We've got to have more closure on Elan's family before Tarquin kicks the bucket. I actually can't even remember or think of what he's got left to do or what his character has left to explain. It's all out in the open now, but I don't think this is entirely the correct time and place for Tarquin to die unless by surprise deity-slayer attack. I can't see Elan killing his own father as it's not like him at all, though Haley might regardless of who he is or the tensions with him and Elan, and the rest of the Order is completely surrounded.


Could someone explain to me what Tarquin's army is? They look semi-transparent, but their arrows are real (or, at least, they look real). Or is this some kind of psychic thing so that Tarquin could save on transportation costs?

I thought it was just a sandstorm kind of thing going on veiling them to make it look nicer than a bunch of obscuring and solid characters in a panel at once.

[RMS Oceanic]

Could someone explain to me what Tarquin's army is? They look semi-transparent, but their arrows are real (or, at least, they look real). Or is this some kind of psychic thing so that Tarquin could save on transportation costs?

They have the rare template obscuredbyallthesandtheykickupbymarching. :smalltongue:

[ManuelSacha]

Damn.
Belkar's dead, isn't he?
V is still trapped down there, and the halfling has an insignificant amount of HP left.

Oh, and I wouldn't count on them taking the portal, on account of the Giant splitting the party yet again looking unlikely.
But this last one is just meta speculation on my part. It might just be, I guess.

[The Kind Knido]

They have the rare template obscuredbyallthesandtheykickupbymarching. :smalltongue:

They're so powerful that they kick up dirt by standing motionless?

I guess it's a nice template for slightly obscuring half of you in sand if being attacked by someone who would get sand in their eyes if they were that dumb.

[zimmerwald1915]

In this arc, it's never been a bad idea to bet against V, but I don't think vampires and water mix well, so it's kind of a poser. I'd sooner bet on a straight TPK than V, however, so Rift seems like my first guess.
I like the way you think.

[The Pilgrim]

The anguish on Tarquin's face for the hard things he has to do for his son is so visible...

... well, not really.

[Yendor]

Could someone explain to me what Tarquin's army is? They look semi-transparent, but their arrows are real (or, at least, they look real). Or is this some kind of psychic thing so that Tarquin could save on transportation costs?

They're just in the background. They're shown as faded because otherwise they'd clutter the scene too much. Just Rich developing his artistic skills.

[Lostbutseeking]

Right now I really wish V was still Darth V.

[RMS Oceanic]

Right now I really wish V was still Darth V.

"I shall punish you for threatening my friends and allies! FAMILICIDE! Now these tedious story arcs have been permanently closed, we can...Elan??"

Darth V is a frame of mind, not just a spell slinger. :smallbiggrin:

[zimmerwald1915]

Right now I really wish V was still Darth V.
Isn't she?

[The Kind Knido]

Isn't she?

Nope, Xykon dispelled the Soul Splice.

A long time ago. :smallannoyed:

[zimmerwald1915]

Nope, Xykon dispelled the Soul Splice.

A long time ago. :smallannoyed:
As RMS Oceanic pointed out, "Darth V" is a state of mind. It is not the condition of being soul spliced.

[TRH]

Isn't she?

You kidding? Darth V at least took out Roy's bone golem. V hasn't done jack this arc.

[TheYell]

Prediction: :vaarsuvius: comes back and


"For the record, it's my call. Dump everything you've got left on my pos. I say again, expend all remaining in my perimeter."

[Kurald Galain]

Durkon doesn't need to water walk, since he doesn't breathe. He can literally drift to the bottom of the ocean, rest and prepare spells, and swim up the next day. The issue is whether Roy can swim that long.

[The Kind Knido]

As RMS Oceanic pointed out, "Darth V" is a state of mind. It is not the condition of being soul spliced.

I suppose so; the Soul Splice did seem to bring out Vaarsuvius' dark side. I wonder if all the years perfecting the arcane is creating an evil V that could become more and more of a problem as time goes on. Hell, V did seem to have random moments where he/she would become angered or driven mad for a brief time and seem to go into a bit of a transformation. Vaarsuvius kills Kubota, anyone? What about the doilies?

I do even remember when the IFCC were surprised after they had stated the Soul Splice wouldn't affect hir alignment.

"A state of mind". I can now fully see where the fan base has gotten used to calling the evil Vaarsuvius "Darth V". Clever move.

[gellerche]

They're so powerful that they kick up dirt by standing motionless?

I guess it's a nice template for slightly obscuring half of you in sand if being attacked by someone who would get sand in their eyes if they were that dumb.

So they are real, and I just misinterpreted their colors?

[Obscure Blade]

Belkar is so calm in face of his death. But check it out: Durkons fiend is still there. He can Greater Teleport them from the crater.Not unless he kills them and cuts them into hunks of meat less than 50 pounds.Fiend: "...I fail to see the problem with this plan."

[Goosefeather]

Durkon doesn't need to water walk, since he doesn't breathe. He can literally drift to the bottom of the ocean, rest and prepare spells, and swim up the next day. The issue is whether Roy can swim that long.

Question from a non-gamer - do vampires have a problem crossing running water in D&D? 'Cause I can see an ocean counting for that.

[The Kind Knido]

So they are real, and I just misinterpreted their colors?

They are, indeed. It's just a cool little sand effect. It's been well over 10 years and Rich has been drawing more and more complex things.

[Aeek]

... well, that was unexpected.


but so obvious with hindsight

[Dumbestupidiot]

Conservation of Ninjutsu states that our heroes are doing A-ok and have never been better. If Tarquin charged by his lonesome then they woulda been doomed.

[gerryq]

For me this is going further in the direction I feared from #914 on.

I don't think of the characters in OOTS as being quite human, but as having traits and emotions that are humanlike. A bit of breaking the fourth wall is fine. A bit of the characters' emotional and intellectual reality coming from D&D tropes is fine [heh, it's not as if I don't I think that a certain amount of our own comes from stuff that got hard-wired in back when giant lizards walked the earth].

But for me, Tarquin is taking it too far now. He's not a person or person-analogue anymore when he's acting like this, just a bag of tropes. He is *too* blind to Elan's emotions to be remotely credible even as an extreme character. It seems to me that his plausibility as a character has been thrown right out the window.

It's not even what's happening that I mind so much, it's that any subtlety of depiction has been removed from his character - he is dancing on obvious strings just as much as the wights that ate Tsukiko. He's more of a one-trick pony than Xykon now. I dunno, maybe this ties into Redcloak's comments about undead and is part of some overarching point the Giant is trying to make about Evil. With no empathy, you become a machine, something like that. I just know I don't like this way of doing it. I hope he's off-screen soon, dead or alive.

Anyhoo, will still be watching.

[Diadem]

Ok, I absolutely did not see that coming. I really expected Tarquin to use the threat about Ian to blackmail the OOTS into accepting his aid.

I'm a bit confused why Tarquin is now trying to stop the OOTS from saving the world. Perhaps he really thinks Elan can save the world with just Haley, while having to walk out of the desert.

He is rather genre savvy, perhaps he realized that no matter what he does to the OOTS they will arrive 'just in time' anyway. But it's strange.

[Halghare]

Question from a non-gamer - do vampires have a problem crossing running water in D&D? 'Cause I can see an ocean counting for that.

Yeah, they do. Durkon is going to need Water Walk or he'll join Kubota in his fabulous new career as a low-concentration saltwater solution. (I guess? The rules aren't clear on exactly how the vampires are destroyed in water, I just figured they'd dissolve similar to how they turn to ash in the sun.)

Off-topic: Think vampires can cross a river of running blood?

[The Kind Knido]

But what if it isn't water?

Durkon still needs to get to his home, and I can't see being lost in the Otherworld Ocean thingy is going to help him get to that. Being utterly crushed by the army won't help, either. Maybe he'll tell them to go into the rift and fend them off as some heroic sacrifice and Tarquin, being the unpredictable and dramatic evil warlord he is will bring his corpse back to the Dwarven Homelands in an attempt to honour his brave sacrifice and end up having to destroy the homelands because the Dwarves won't want him there after all the nations he's already conquered?

[Stealth]

Well... point the second for my position regarding Tarquin and his desire to grab the narrative structure by the throat and steer it like a barge.

Not every day that you get someone with such dedication to metafictional villainy.

[nogall]

V, rift or something. And hilarity *does not* ensue when they are somehow saved and the forum abounds with "deus ex-machina" profets and doomsayers.


:smallcool:

[LightPhoenix]

The obvious guess is that V comes back and unloads on the army. If we stick to spells V knows, it has to be Forcecage. However, I'm hoping to see something more dramatic: maybe Prismatic Wall. Also, looking at spells, Temporal Stasis would be an interesting spell to throw on Belkar to "save" him...

However, my dramatic instincts are screaming that it's too easy that way.

[Ward.]

The real question is, how many domination checks will it take to minimise that army of mooks?

[Edhelras]

Question from a non-gamer - do vampires have a problem crossing running water in D&D? 'Cause I can see an ocean counting for that.

As I noted in a post above: I did think so. This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) is the SRD entry for vampires.
So the main question is whether "ocean" can be counted as "running water". According to some classic tropes about vampires, I do think they have a problem crossing oceans, like I do think Count Dracula had to be ferried across the English Channel stored in his coffin?
So, there are a number of limitations for vampires that hardly make much sense in a typical DnD mechanic, but that are nonetheless attributed to them game-wise. Like, the prohibition on entering buildings without being invited. How can that be justified based on the ordinary DnD mechanics?
Ordinary undead can walk across the ocean floor, and thereby be used for surprise attacks and attacking defenders who believe they are safe on an island. But I don't know, really, to what extent vampires are barred from that kind of tactics. For sure, they're not ordinary undead, on the contrary they're very, very unusual kinds of undead.


Originally Posted by Halghare Yeah, they do. Durkon is going to need Water Walk or he'll join Kubota in his fabulous new career as a low-concentration saltwater solution. (I guess? The rules aren't clear on exactly how the vampires are destroyed in water, I just figured they'd dissolve similar to how they turn to ash in the sun.)


I don't think Water Walk will solve the problem for Durkola. I think he needs to be carried on a ship and/or resting in his coffin (which he doesn't have, yet). And I'm not sure vampires are even destroyed by being exposed to running water, simply that it is prohibited to them.
Just think about these movies where a vampire stands on the doorstep to a home, waiting and hoping for being invited. The door is open, physically he could easily enter, but "something" is stopping him. Some unseen barrier, that cannot be readily explained in DnD terms.
I think that same kind of prohibition applies to running water. They will just stop, stare at the river, and acknowledge that they cannot pass it.
But the question remains: Is moving ("running"?) ocean water the same as the obviously running water of a river? What is "still" water in this context? Can vampires cross a small pool, or can they cross a completely still water of an subterrean lake?

[Obscure Blade]

I'm a bit confused why Tarquin is now trying to stop the OOTS from saving the world. Perhaps he really thinks Elan can save the world with just Haley, while having to walk out of the desert.He's absolutely certain of that. He clearly thinks that the story is all about him and his conflict with Elan, and the whole Gates thing a side quest. Elan's the protagonist in Tarquin's eyes, and the rest of the group replaceable secondary characters.

[Dr Mushroom]

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Where was it mentioned that there was an ocean beyond the rift?

[Krim]

Well... point the second for my position regarding Tarquin and his desire to grab the narrative structure by the throat and steer it like a barge.

Not every day that you get someone with such dedication to metafictional villainy.

And yet, in his dedication, he has sealed his fate into nothingness...

Up until this point I could see him doing some heroical sacrifice, ala Darth Vader (which fits him well), dying in his son's arms and asking him to write an awesome bardic poem, smiling knowing that he will end up being a freaking legend...

But now? Oh, Elan will probably make sure that he dies in an ignominous, anti-climatic way. Hell, he may even die OFFSCREEN...with someone rubbing salt in his wound, telling him that he will be a mere anecdote, and that they will even forget to write his name and who he was.

Dying knowing that none will remember him, and that he will not even be part of the history, that, I think would be the most horrible torture Tarquin can get. And, at this point, a fully deserved one.

[Obscure Blade]

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Where was it mentioned that there was an ocean beyond the rift?Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0900.html), and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0902.html).

[ratfox]

Dammit Giant, don't make me laugh out loud while I'm in the middle of a business meeting :smallbiggrin:

[WindStruck]

Don't you mean bunny-punching?

I agree. But we have no bunnies. However, in order to give a thorough demonstration, I suggest you google "falcon punch joke". :smallbiggrin:

[ScrapperTBP]

What is Tarquin thinking? His plot with Elan will not advance at all if the world is destroyed. This is petty. Belkar might die unless Roy does what he did for Elan in Azure City and saves him.

[Yendor]

Belkar might die unless Roy does what he did for Elan in Azure City and saves him.

Roy saving Belkar? Not gonna happen.

You know what? I think the Giant has found a way to make me not feel glad when Belkar snuffs it. Malack, pre-vampire reveal, would have worked. This? Not so much.

[Chantelune]

What is Tarquin thinking? His plot with Elan will not advance at all if the world is destroyed. This is petty. Belkar might die unless Roy does what he did for Elan in Azure City and saves him.

Tarquin obviously think that once Roy is dead, he will get some heroic epiphany and will be able to singlehandedly crush Team Evil with Haley swooning at him every second.

Was afraid of something like that when I saw the title, but eck, still took me aback for a moment. :smallconfused:

A retreat through the gate sounds more and more like the best way to get out of there, but given Haley and Elan are still up there with kind of an army between them and the party and V is still missing, might that split the party again ? Somehow, having another splitting up at this point of the story sounds unlikely.

[Iferus]

Well, up to this point I liked Tarquin, thinking he was an effective supervillain. But this is just pathetic. He is damaging his own chances of survival by trying to eliminate the group that is trying to save the world, dropping him to the level of more your run of the mill can't see the big picture kind of villain. Can't really say I like this decision.

My guess is that the Order will jump into the gate, we have a few round-up comics and that ends the arc.

In his view, he's not damaging his chances. Elan is the protagonist and will therefore win any world-threatening encounters. By killing other protagonists, he is ensuring the victory of his son via the inverse ninja law.

[Dracon1us]

at this point, I call for V killing Tarquin, pushing Him in the snarl world

[Dracon1us]

Also a V & Sabine Team Up could be in the making

[DoctorIllithid]

Protection from arrows!

For the love of God, protection from arrows!

[IronFist]

I'm guessing Durkon is casting Wind Wall, that's why we only see his back.

[LuPuWei]

I knew it! The moment he called Haley up, I knew it... :smalleek:

PS: And that is why Julio opted to leave... :smallbiggrin:

[Evandar]

All right. That's it. I no longer wish to make sweet love to Tarquin. Someone needs to kill that man urgently.

[quasit]

Durkon doesn't need to water walk, since he doesn't breathe. He can literally drift to the bottom of the ocean, rest and prepare spells, and swim up the next day. The issue is whether Roy can swim that long.

He's a vampire, if he dumps himself into any body of water with currents like an ocean (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm), he'd be probably toast.

[SteveMB]

I'm a bit confused why Tarquin is now trying to stop the OOTS from saving the world. Perhaps he really thinks Elan can save the world with just Haley, while having to walk out of the desert.

He's so determined to believe that his son is the big hero of the story that he's convinced himself that he's helping the save-the-world sidequest (the main story, of course, is the father-son showdown) by giving Elan the mentor-slaying kick in the pants he needs to step up.

[Ubab]

It's really impressive how Tarquin keep his mind in all this "dramatic way". Nothing can eclipse his son Gran Finale (if this thing can delay the Gran Finale, best).

What can Durkon do now to help? Or it's time for V reappear?

[elros]

Another great update!

I really should have seen this coming, especially after Tarquin asked Haley to come with Elan. I think it's pretty clear that the only option is Into The Rift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifts_%28role-playing_game%29)!

The only question is if the Giant will crack jokes about Rifts (which is pretty easy to do!).

[Adeptus]

I knew it! The moment he called Haley up, I knew it... :smalleek:

You and several others. The detail was wrong though. A lot of people attributed really weird, out of character motivations to Tarquin doing this (basically cruelty for it's own sake and such... which he has not displayed).

But you guys really did call it. In hind sight it should be clear. Why place a ring of troops around the guys in the pit and then never use them.

It may be time to be forced into the rift afterall... and I think Belkar will die and be resurrected on the other side by Durkon. He'll have died in the OotS world, forever.

[Diadem]

He's so determined to believe that his son is the big hero of the story that he's convinced himself that he's helping the save-the-world sidequest (the main story, of course, is the father-son showdown) by giving Elan the mentor-slaying kick in the pants he needs to step up.
yeah I hadn't actually realized that, but Tarquin considers himself the main story and the gates the side-quest. So him taking out Elan's friend and mentor (giving Elan another nice reason for wanting revenge) makes perfect sense. While saving Haley, of course, because a villain can only realistically hope to kill the hero's love interest during the first few pages of the story.

[Baron Pineapple]

My head hurts...

I tried very hard in my thoughts to correspond the Tarquin of the last couple of strips with the Tarquin that had been established and it isn't working.

I don't know where RB is taking this, but it feels jarring and sudden. I'm not sure if there's bonus material that explains this departure from what we've seen, or if maybe I'm just not in the headspace that is required for this subplot.

I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed, but it's still making me wince my eyes as I think about what's going on. Nothing makes sense.

[pendell]

...

Well, that was unexpected. And not at all funny. Tarquin continues his journey from Magnificent Bastard to just plain Bastard. I suppose there might be some audience sympathy left for him, so I suppose next strip he will kick a line of puppies just to drive the point home "Tarquin is a VILLAIN. You're supposed to BOO HIM, 'mmmkay? "

ETA: Not that this is at all out of character. It's not. This kind of "casual murder of your son's friends" gives us insight as to the contributing factors that helped make Nale what he was.

Does look bad for our heroes. I wonder how they will get out of this one?

ETA: Wait, wait , wait, are we about to split the party again? WE'VE ALREADY DONE THAT FOR A WHOLE BOOK.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[nmphuong91]

May be it's time for Julio Scoundrél to return.

[Sylthia]

Not looking good for Belkar, now.

[TRH]

Not looking good for Belkar, now.

Belkar's always about to die. Always. If Roy's a future psychic, then Belkar's a future Kenny.

[Needle]

I laughed to the bunny and "your daddy issues" despite the grim situation :smallredface: :smallsigh:

[Ham Sammich]

Wow. Just when I thought I couldn't hate Tarquin any more...

Also, this would be a REALLY great time for a long running sub-plot to get resolved... *cough cough* Varsuuvius *cough cough*.

[Illsbane]

Agreed, the 'daddy issues'-joke was gold.

But as for the rest: GAAAAHH! o_o We need an upset, badly! Bring on the deus ex machina, and quickly!

It is probably superfluous to mention that Tarquin is a monster in human skin, which is happily speeding off over the moral event horizon.

[Killer Angel]

...

Well, that was unexpected. And not at all funny. Tarquin continues his journey from Magnificent Bastard to just plain Bastard..

Well, it makes sense, from Tarquin's PoV: he wants to be defeated only by his son. Not by his son's friends, and Elan himself is saying that he sees Roy as his leader. Inconceivable, for Tarquin.
But all in all, yes, the magnificent part, is somehow fading away...

[TheWombatOfDoom]

:smalleek: Soooooooo....um....back to jumping into the rift as an option? :smallbiggrin:

[Yendor]

I suppose there might be some audience sympathy left for him, so I suppose next strip he will kick a line of puppies just to drive the point home

He's put bunny-punching on his to-do list. He's not even trying to be subtle any more.

[SteveMB]

Belkar is so calm in face of his death. But check it out: Durkons fiend is still there. He can Greater Teleport them from the crater.


Not unless he kills them and cuts them into hunks of meat less than 50 pounds.

Well, that's certainly a problem for Roy, but not for Belkar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0165.html) and probably not for Durkon.

[Dracon1us]

Well, it makes sense, from Tarquin's PoV: he wants to be defeated only by his son. Not by his son's friends, and Elan himself is saying that he sees Roy as his leader. Inconceivable, for Tarquin.
But all in all, yes, the magnificent part, is somehow fading away...

because the magnificent part, it's just an act...but we needed 200ft Flaming Letters to notice :smallbiggrin:

[Albion]

Sabine sure has damage reduction... :smallconfused:

[The Kind Knido]

Sabine sure has damage reduction... :smallconfused:

Oh, does she.

Are you sure you're in the thread you meant to post in?

[Killer Angel]

because the magnificent part, it's just an act...but we needed 200ft Flaming Letters to notice :smallbiggrin:

Some punched bunnies would help, too. :smalltongue:

[quasit]

Well, that's certainly a problem for Roy, but not for Belkar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0165.html) and probably not for Durkon.

think the point it's that the devil's teleport is limited to bring objects with him (like an elven mage's head), not living beings.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[ozmar]

Noooooo!

When did G.R.R. Martin begin writing for this comic? :smallfurious: :smalleek:

-Ozmar the Despairing

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I thought Tarquin new Roy was hero, 863 implies he knows. He also says he wants to fight Roy's tactical mind. This makes no sense?

Also,no rift escape, Durkon can't cross water.

That's...a VERY good point.

[Shatteredtower]

Until now, I'd never pictured Roy and Belkar as Butch and Sundance, but I'm going to hear Belkar's punchlines in an entirely different voice from now on.


He's only saying it because he cares. :smallwink
In a dysfunctional way, that's true. Elan's never going to grow into the hero Tarquin wants him to be until he escapes from Roy's shadow, and there's no way Elan would leave that on his own. A firm paternal hand is clearly required.

I suspect Nale would have experience with this sort of intervention. It wouldn't surprise me if he'd been friends with several people that wound up as Malack's children. (I'm also left wondering if Tarquin and Malack learned parenting skills from one another.)

In case it's not clear, I don't approve of these methods. They're just too familiar.


By the way, the pun in the title?
Eh, knowing that "execute" only came to mean "kill" by means of euphemism kind of spoils that for me, even if it's true that Tarquin is demonstrating the title by both definitions at once.


Time to cut down Elan's Mentor (as had been noted above) and for Elan to Take a Level in Badass.

PS: And that is why Julio opted to leave... :smallbiggrin:
It would amuse me if that was the Order's way out of this, despite how that would play out for Julio. There's no way I see it happening, but right now the only outcome I can see involves the three guys in the pit taking a(nother) visit to the afterlife.

Okay, another visit to the cast page could also help, but that joke's only good once. Best to leave the author to show what's up his sleeve on his own time.

...Unless the next score of strips take us back to Xykon.


Protection from arrows!

For the love of God, protection from arrows!
"Shields! SHIELDS!"

[Mordae]

Somewhere in the bowels of Hell...

"Are you sure you wouldn't want to take on the soul splices again? What's a few more minutes if all your friends die because you don't have the power to save them RIGHT NOW?"

[Gusion]

New comic is up.

Well, that is a bit of a surprise.

So if Elan ran down to Roy, would Tarquin save his only son?

I think so... since Elan would be acting heroic...

Hell, call it my prediction.

[TRH]

Somewhere in the bowels of Hell...

"Are you sure you wouldn't want to take on the soul splices again? What's a few more minutes if all your friends die because you don't have the power to save them RIGHT NOW?"

That assumes they even know what's going on anymore. Do they, with their Scryer broken?

[Dracon1us]

Some punched bunnies would help, too. :smalltongue:

Ciao Fellow Italian
da Torino

[Shatteredtower]

Bring on the deus ex machina, and quickly!
Of all the things I've seen since I started following this strip many years ago, this was the most unexpected. Still well worth the chuckle, so well played.

[Andric]

another soul splice deal incoming for V ..?

[Solara]

Are these soldiers real threats, or just a bunch of random mooks like the hobgoblin army?

...either way I guess things could go badly for Belkar. And I can't decide whether 'daddy issues' or 'bunny punching' is funnier.

Tarquin is officially an idiot though, how is Elan supposed to stop Xykon without his team? I'm guessing he simply doesn't see the whole rift thing as important at all compared to the big showdown between father and son.

...I hope he dies in the most anti-climatic, non-tropey way possible. :smallannoyed:

[DreadArchon]

Sadly, Tarquin probably brought mooks that are a real threat. Tarquin's party can get involved too. It would have been funny if they were all level 3 though, especially with Roy having Great Cleave.

[Hendel]

Again, Elan proves that wisdom AND intelligence are his dump stats as he should have just shut-up and not given his father anything more to work with after seeing the Nale incident.

Oh well, it will be interesting to see if Belkar can get out of this. I am sure Roy will as he has plot shield working for him.

[Turgon9357]

:belkar: "Hey look, this is me giving zero flumphs."

On a more serious note, if Haley and especially Elan manage to jump into the rift, that could actually be the first step into beating Tarquin. He may be the ultimate salvager of situations, but being under the impression that his hero son is gone for good just might be enough to start making cracks. The evil chessmaster doesn't like it when his pieces start successfully rebelling from him, and especially not while there's nothing he can do to punish them.

[Knight.Anon]

Looks like Rift Happens. Behold the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Snarl. I'm sure it usually eats Dino Armies with a side of Pantheon....

[Burner28]

Of course Tarquin would think that he was the main villain and Elan was the main hero. It was foreshadowed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html)

[Kaerou]

I know he's evil and all.. but I kind of want a Tarquin comic now. He's just so.. amazing.

[pendell]

I find I must come back, on reflection, to observe:

That last panel? With the arrows and the charging soldiers? From a purely artistic perspective ,that last panel is AWESOME.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[eras10]

I tried very hard in my thoughts to correspond the Tarquin of the last couple of strips with the Tarquin that had been established and it isn't working.

I don't know where RB is taking this, but it feels jarring and sudden. I'm not sure if there's bonus material that explains this departure from what we've seen, or if maybe I'm just not in the headspace that is required for this subplot.

This. I'm highly critical of this/these strips. I think it's badly written, and badly plotted. I can hardly remember having felt this way in 3 or 400 strips. Sure, 100 out of 100 jokes aren't always funny, etc, but the characterization is usually good, and here it's gone completely off the rails.

Tarquin's behavior isn't consistent with anything. It's not that killing OOTS is cruel, it is that it is senseless. There's no way Tarquin could sanely expect a bard / thief twosome to fight the evil that a 5-man party was going to take on, first, and Tarquin should know that.

Second, Tarquin has changed from being solicitous of his son and trying, albeit in weird ways, to earn his affection, to antagonizing him in the crudest way possible. I mean, it's not like Tarquin was hiding his cruel nature before, but he was trying to act towards his son, specifically, like he thought of him as a partner, and was deferring to his son in details like "don't kill all my friends please".
100 strips ago, Tarquin seemed like a (barbaric) human being who felt human emotions towards people he cared about, even though it was obvious he had no moral standards for how he treated them, he understood what they would and would not be made to put up with.

Now he's throwing his relationship with Elan in the trash, and it's not like Elan needed convincing to try to stop Tarquin eventually. Being a hero, it would be a natural, even inevitable move for Elan in due time, and again, Tarquin should get this. Tarquin has gone from being an evil person with feelings - a complex person, albeit still a jerk who would kill you if he felt like it - to a silly sociopath.

I mean, seriously, a normal human being put in this position - Elan's position - will immediately try and kill Tarquin, and is certainly going to refuse to cooperate with him. It's the kind of move that makes you say "screw the world-ending gate quest, I'm just going to kill you or die trying"

It doesn't even make sense as an act of coercion for this reason. It's just too over the top.

Someone earlier said that this is an example of Tarquin's poor understanding of human behavior, but that's crazy. Tarquin's entire character, and the plausibility of him carrying out this scheme, which has required a lot of diplomacy and manipulation to get him to the top of the continent, is built on him having a great understanding of human behavior, being able to fake being a normal and reasonable person. This is a huge botch, it doesn't make any sense given any set of goals Tarquin has discussed or that I can think of.

It doesn't even make sense given last strip! If Tarquin wants Elan and Haley to go off on a wild goose chase looking for Haley's father, Tarquin has just removed their ability to pursue that quest (wind walk) in any realistic way. What's Elan going to do, accept Tarquin's help having them travel around looking for Tarquin's sworn enemy? That, again, would make no sense at all from Elan's point of view.

And, seriously, what about everything Tarquin was saying earlier in the book about it being in he, Tarquin's, best interests, for OOTS to stop Xykon from getting the MacGuffin? That sounded true at the time; now it isn't?

I'm sorry. From various different directions, Tarquin's actions over the last several strips are just a complete muddle. I mean, I presume Tarquin wants the last gate for himself and his real motive is to wear down any poissible opposition to that action - but if so, this was written all wrong. The offer re Ian now doesn't make sense, the failure to be open about this goal leaves everyone confused and makes Tarquin look like he's regressed five maturity levels in ten strips. And Tarquin can't kill Elan's entire party in front of him and expect Elan to cooperate with him in any way, for any reason, including on attacking the last gate. The whole thing has gone pear-shaped.

If Tarquin really needs to try to kill half the order for some reason, some circumstance that would justify that conflict needed to have been introduced.
I mean, the whole point of the Ian thing was - from Tarquin's point of view, to distract OOTS, and now instead of distract we have vaporize.

So that's several different reasons why this just feels like a kick in the story's face. If there is some cold-pursuit-of-self-benefit justification that makes sense - the "kill Roy so Elan can become a hero" thing is stupid and not believeable as Tarquin's motivation - then we, the audience, need to have been brought through some demonstration of that motivation before this happened.

EDIT. I guess one could, after thinking about it, start constructing an explanation along the lines of: killing his own son has put Tarquin under a lot of stress, warped his mood, and brought out something like his inner self. We just needed more transition / hints / demonstration of that. It is, more or less, happening too fast.

[joosy]

pshh.. no worries.
Durkon takes the 5000 on the left, Roy takes the 5000 on the right. Belkar and Mr. Scruffy take on the rest. Piece of cake.

Alternatively:

V returns with some lightning bolts and fireballs to turn the crater into glass. Durkon calls on Hel's Might and then drinks his fill. Roy and Belkar cut a swath of their own but Belkar takes enough damage to become cross-eyed.

A ship from the ocean comes through the rift. The name of the craft is "Dues Ex" and is manned by Kraagor's descendants. Roy, Durkon, V, Mr. Scruffy and Belkar's corpse escape into the rift.

In a desperate bid, Elan puts on the belt of gender swap causing Tarquin to change the cliche from a heroic son to a rebellious princess. Haley's latent bisexuality comes to the forefront.

[Person_Man]

Protection from arrows!

For the love of God, protection from arrows!

Protection From Arrows is a Wizard spell. So unless Haley has one in a wand somewhere and Readied an action to cast it, it's a no go.

Wind Wall is a possibility. But unless Durkula Readied an action to cast it, I don't see how they could possibly survive the initial onslaught of hundreds of arrows. Even if only natural 20's hit, you're looking at dozens of critical hits each.

[Phantaskippy]

First off, boo to those who jump off the Tarquin wagon now, it's just getting rolling.

Tarquin's entire motivation is Elan being the one who defeats him, and I think it is much more the Emperor that Vader calling him out.

He wants Elan to step up and have ambition, and Elan is content to follow and support Roy because he sees Roy as a better hero than he could be.

There are two endings in Tarquin's gamble:

1. Roy dies, Elan swears vengeance and becomes a dark hero, susceptible to eventually turning and following Daddy's footsteps. (what Tarquin Wants)

2. Elan saves his friends, and realizes he can be a main hero and starts down that path. (What Tarquin Wants)

I think what Tarquin is after is his son to take over for him when he's gone or retires. This could go the Dread Emperor Tarquin route, where Tarquin retires and Elan steps in, probably intent on doing good, but still in charge; or the Star Wars modified version where Elan kills the Emperor and takes his place.

Tarquin doesn't move if there is a reasonable outcome where he loses.

[Kish]

I mean, the whole point of the Ian thing was - from Tarquin's point of view, to distract OOTS,

I'm sorry, did Tarquin say that somewhere?

Tarquin's plan would now appear to be: Haley goes and rescues Ian. Or dies trying and gets shoved into the fridge to motivate Elan when he comes after Tarquin; why would Tarquin care which?

Elan goes and defeats the scenery-chewing villain who is going after the last gate. Why would the hero who is going to take down Tarquin need the rest of the Order to deal with some minor villain? He can recruit more mooks, if for some reason he needs them.

Tarquin never said anything about the Order defeating the villain who is going after the last Gate; he never said anything about the Order at all, just his son. It's now evident that even Tarquin's offer about "Laurin can wormhole you to your next dungeon" was for one person...Elan.

[Breccia]

Tarquin is trying harder and harder to force the OotS to accept his "guidance". This time, he's threatening to throw enough natural 20's at Roy, Belkar, and possibly Durkula to wipe them out, UNLESS Elan makes a deal/begs for mercy. It's a hostage ploy, one step from "accept my authority or I will kill your friends" to "I am killing your friends now, accept my authority before they die". It rather hammers the point home and gives Elan/Haley less time to think up an alternative.

As people have already pointed out, there are ways out of this. My favorite is forcecage. It might not stop the psion, but it will stop everything else. Wind walk offers amazing defense. I hated when the PCs in my campaign used the 80% invisible, regardless of Spot checks. I suppose it's possible the Azure Guard has access to some kind of summoning power. Maybe Haley or Elan could take a hostage themselves? And finally, there's Elan's Big Plan that involves Durkon somehow. I'm not too keen to guess what will happen next in the strip that brought you Suddenly Allosaurus!

That's what I like about this strip: you don't actually see the rabbit punch line until it happens.

[eras10]

Elan goes and defeats the scenery-chewing villain who is going after the last gate. Why would the hero who is going to take down Tarquin need the rest of the Order to deal with some minor villain? He can recruit more mooks, if for some reason he needs them.

Cmon. Tarquin's supposed to be realistic. 15'th level party members aren't mooks. They don't grow on trees. Elan has neither the time nor means to recruit people in the middle of the desert by himself, or as he's being teleported right to the final dungeon.

I mean, yes, this is a way to make Tarquin's behavior consistent with some kind of plan or calculated set of actions, it's just a very poor plan. Tarquin isn't supposed to be making poor, weird plans.

My guess is that Tarquin expects Elan to accept Tarquin's whole party as a team up... I guess. But to me, that's not realistic writing for Elan, or for Tarquin, who again, is supposed to understand how people work.

EDIT: Kish, you are probably right, or must be right about Haley's thing for Ian being an intended solo adventure. That, specifically, is plausible enough.. I guess. That's not the end of my problems with how this path has gone, though.

Double edit - I'm probably overstating my reaction here, i.e. it may look like less of a big deal in the fullness of time, etc. Still, I don't like it. To make it believeable, if there was a reason Tarquin V OOTS needed to be brought to a full boil and Tarquin needed to be brought to open enemy status, etc, Tarquin should have tried to kill everyone, Elan included. That would at least be consistent with this total psychotic break, drastic change in his perspective, Major-Villain-Decides-To-Wipe-The-Slate-Clean kind of deal.

[applepie314]

Haley's got those 3 wands that she picked up... what do they do again?

[Demolator]

That rift escape plan is starting to seem a bit more possible. I still like Tarquin just as much, believe me, but his actions make me question how much longer he's going to be around.

[Muenster Man]

Welp...

Game over! Comic's done. Thanks a bunch, Rich. We can all go home now :smallbiggrin:

[gerryq]

Protection From Arrows is a Wizard spell. So unless Haley has one in a wand somewhere and Readied an action to cast it, it's a no go.


Well, she has Z's wands. But if Z had protection from arrows, he got it since his fight with V! (Could be a logical thing for him to get, but we should have seen him buying wands.)

[Turgon9357]

Protection From Arrows is a Wizard spell. So unless Haley has one in a wand somewhere and Readied an action to cast it, it's a no go.

Wind Wall is a possibility. But unless Durkula Readied an action to cast it, I don't see how they could possibly survive the initial onslaught of hundreds of arrows. Even if only natural 20's hit, you're looking at dozens of critical hits each.

V completely spanked Z in their last fight with arrows (ok, bolts). If there was any way for Z to requisition a defense against arrows between that fight and heading out again, I imagine he'd have taken it. And it just so happens that Haley helped herself to some fancy new wands Z had.

[Kish]

Cmon. Tarquin's supposed to be realistic.
Since when?

Being deceptive, powerful, and obsessed with narrative isn't the same as being realistic and exactly as genre-savvy as the reader wants him to be. He's as realistic as Elan was when Elan refused to jump out of Dorukan's Dungeon until the explosion was right behind them.

Find one place where he's spoken of Xykon with anything but dismissive contempt. You can't? Then why are you acting like it's hugely out of character for him to think Tarquin's son can roll right over Xykon?

I don't believe Tarquin plans to offer Elan anything more than transportation. He's the hero; he'll win because he's the hero. And, I forgot to mention in my earlier post, so what if Elan does attack him? He'll disarm Elan harmlessly again, or cut off his hand or something that only provides further narrative impetus for the grand story of his clash with Elan.

Edited in response to your edit: Yes, that would indicate a sudden, massive shift in Tarquin's personality. Which is exactly why Rich didn't write it; there is no shift in Tarquin's personality.

[joosy]

Haley's got those 3 wands that she picked up... what do they do again?

They cast some sort of magic spell. The particular ones for these wands have not been specified in comic yet.

[warmachine]

Roy and co are in no state to fight that many mooks, especially if Team Tarquin add their support. Time to run into the rift.

[Dakaran]

My vote's for Vaarsuvius showing up using some kind of trick that Sabine gave him/her (to spite Tarquin) to teleport the Order outta there.

[CoffeeIncluded]

See at this point I'd shove him into the crater myself, or go down with him if that'll ensure his demise.

Now I really want Tarquin to die. Ignominiously.

[Hendel]

I think Tarquin is totally in character. His desire is to either rule as a king or be taken down by Elan as a legend. What better way to make Elan truly hate him. We see that Elan is able to show compassion to even Nale, so Tarquin has to push Elan to be that dark, brooding son on the ledge contemplating having to kill his own father.

Seems very Tarquin-like to me. Great job Giant!! Keep it coming!!