3.5 Core caster build +1 book?

[kharneth1181]

Hey folks, I'm going to be joining a new campaign pretty soon and the DM is only allowing core books and one book of our choice (subject to approval.. no Serpent Kingdoms).

I've been throwing around the idea of a battle cleric or generic caster sorceror build, what extra book would improve these characters the most?

[juicycaboose]

Magic Item Compendium!

[SolioFebalas]

Complete Divine/Complete Arcane if they are not considered core. Otherwise Five Nations for fighting cleric (Bone Knight) or Magic of Faerun/PGtF for sorcerer (Incantatrix).

[SolioFebalas]

Magic Item Compendium!

I guess MIC and Spell Compendium not included in the total limit, otherwise Spell Compendium bring more favor to casters.

[Radar]

I'll definately second Complete Divine for the cleric, since you'll find Divine Metamagic there, which is a tremendous boost to your fighting power (note: concentrate on Persist Spell and nothing else).

As for the Sorcerer, Complete Arcane does have quite a few really good prestige classes to choose from (Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, Mage of The Arcane Order, Mindbender for a short dip).

If you want to go for the metamagic craziness, then keep in mind, that the Incantatrix class in Magic of Faerun is completly different form the one in Player's Guide to Faerun. I'm not sure which, is which, so check before choosing.

[Beleron]

I'll definately second Complete Divine for the cleric, since you'll find Divine Metamagic there, which is a tremendous boost to your fighting power (note: concentrate on Persist Spell and nothing else).


DMM and Persistent Spell are in different books. He can only have one.

[Radar]

DMM and Persistent Spell are in different books. He can only have one.
... Doh! :smallsigh:

That being said, Complete Divine has a solid set of Prestige Classes to choose from (just remember not to loose too many caster levels). If you want to focus on melee though, Tome of Battle might be just for you. Make a dip in the Crusader class and then enter into Ruby Knight Vindicator. In the end, you will be up to 3 caster level behind, but you will gain a lot of other goodies in form of martial maneuvers and stances as well as the really nifty ability to change turn attempts into extra swift actions.

[Amphetryon]

Complete Mage makes a fine choice if you go the Sorcerer route.

[Eldariel]

Complete Divine for DMM: Quicken Spell is fine. It also has most of the good non-Core Cleric-spells (some in their superior versions, especially Spikes/Brambles that last forever), some other nice Divine feats (Divine Spell Power, Divine Might, Domain Spontaneity among others though you probably can't fit most of that) and Divine PRCs (since Cleric gives you nothing).

Overall, Complete Divine by a landslide for a Cleric. Hell, the web enhancement has Dweomerkeeper if you want to get crazy (but you probably shouldn't). Off the bat, Church Inquisitor, Radiant Servant [of Pelor, adapted to your settings], Sacred Exorcist, Contemplative & Divine Oracle are all unambiguously full casting PRCs that give you various goods and fill various concepts.

The book also contains the infamous "Text Over Table"-classes that have full casting according to the text, but only partial casting according to the table. The interesting ones out of this bunch include Sacred Fist and Seeker of the Misty Isles. You shouldn't need to go with those tho as the unambiguous Full Casting PRCs are plentiful. Don't worry about Base Attack Bonus, you're a Cleric with Divine Metamagic: Quicken Spell, so starting level 7 you'll have full BAB in all meaningful fights (and Medium BAB isn't that bad either).

Complete Champion is the distant second with Ordained Champion, Devotion-feats and such but it loses out to Complete Divine in PRC options, feats and even spells (even tho it has some good ones like Surge of Fortune).


Sorcerer is a bit harder. I'd probably look at Complete Mage (for Arcane Fusion), Dragon Magic (for Arcane Spellsurge) or Races of the Dragon (if you can get web enhancement, you have the Kobold-option available to you and either way you get Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry). Spell Compendium is also a fine choice, giving you a wealth of options (though less Sorc-specific good stuff).

[kestrel404]

Spell compendium.

You could argue a few different things for battle cleric, but greater spell choice is a direct increase to power level for both Sorceror & Cleric, so as a general suggestion I'm going to state Spell Compendium is your best bet.

[gorfnab]

Complete Arcane - Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10

[Rubik]

You could always go druid 20; then you could choose your book with impunity, since you don't need to focus on feats or PrCs. Spell Compendium for spells, Magic Item Compendium for items, or any number of other things, just because you can.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that Druid is the choice to go with. Limiting the number of books used in character creation is downright absurd, no point in having the books if they're not going to be used. Plus it makes even less sense in-character that some individuals would be able to learn something, but nobody else is even capable of learning that same thing. What happens if the Wizard picks Spell Compendium, and wants to use Heroics to give the Fighter feats from PH2 and CW and CC? For that reason, play a character which will be the least affected by the arbitrary restriction on books.

For a Druid, I'd probably go with Spell Compendium or Frostburn or Lost Empires of Faerun or Magic Item Compendium. Spell Compendium for obvious reasons. Frostburn has Snowsight + Obscuring Snow, along with Call Avalanche and quite a few others. LEoF has Greenbound Summoning, so SNA1 for a Dire Rat gets you a Wall of Thorns spell at 1st level. MIC mostly for Wilding Clasps, Circlet of Rapid Casting, items that work when wild shaped such as the Raiment of the Stormwalker, and plenty more items that would be extremely beneficial.

Edit: One person in the party should take one for the team and pick MIC and get Craft Wondrous Item to effectively give the whole party access to that book's contents.

[Captnq]

Oh.

Well, I've been working on the Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis. I could merge it all into one PDF, then it would be "One Book". One book about six thousand pages long, but one book none the less.

I suspect your DM might change the rules on you.

[Piggy Knowles]

I've had this question come up many times, and my advice is pretty much always...

PRIMARY CASTER OF ANY SORT:
Spell Compendium (yes, even for clerics - there are spells in Spell Compendium worth more than adding on DMM Quicken to a cleric chassis with only core spells)

ANYONE ELSE:
Magic Item Compendium, with the possible exception of Tome of Battle for a melee character or Dungeonscape for a skill-focused character

Seriously, I can't imagine making any other decision. If you're playing a caster, no supplement will offer more bang for your buck than Spell Compendium. Yes, there are great spells in core, but the sheer number of options SpC opens up is staggering. If you're not playing a caster, MIC is pretty much required to keep up, although a good case could be made for ToB.

[Eldariel]

Spell Compendium (yes, even for clerics - there are spells in Spell Compendium worth more than adding on DMM Quicken to a cleric chassis with only core spells)

Naa, it's not that automatic. You get a ton of useless spells and a few absolute gems in SC but you've got most of what makes you tick in Core and CDiv already, and CDiv on the other hand makes your chassis far stronger (5-6 domains over 2, DMM) and has better versions of some spells.

Many of the great SC spells are also pretty useless if you can't persist them since they have short duration and aren't really worth casting in combat (Recitation, Conviction, Visage of the Deity-line, (Un)holy Transformation, etc.). The only real exception is Consumptive Field which, if you're going to use it, is of course ridiculously powerful and makes up for what you lose in CDiv...unless you count the CDiv Web Enhancement where you get Dweomerkeeper for free Wishes on that end.

[Piggy Knowles]

You know, I was about to throw out Spikes as the counter-example that shows what a decent long-duration buff for a cleric can look like... until I realized that Spikes was also printed in Complete Divine. Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, too, although the CDiv version is two levels higher. Fair enough, then a cleric does have a pretty good case for Complete Divine, but I still think Spell Compendium is worth some consideration.

[Vaz]

Core+Heroes of Horror for Archivist.

[Beleron]

Limiting the number of books used in character creation is downright absurd, no point in having the books if they're not going to be used. Plus it makes even less sense in-character that some individuals would be able to learn something, but nobody else is even capable of learning that same thing. What happens if the Wizard picks Spell Compendium, and wants to use Heroics to give the Fighter feats from PH2 and CW and CC? For that reason, play a character which will be the least affected by the arbitrary restriction on books.


I agree. Some of he most unbalanced things in the game are in core. A limit like this does nothing to help the lower tier classes.

[Story]

I'm surprised noone's mentioned PHBII yet. It has Abrupt Jaunt and Celerity.

[lsfreak]

I'd agree with Eldariel's assessment of CDiv vs SpC. SpC is a lot of garbage with a few gems scattered around, several of which CDiv is the source of anyways (Recitation, Visage of the Deity, RWotF, Vigor).

Depending on flavor of battle cleric you're after, ToB or CC might be worthwhile for RKV/maneuvers and Ordained Champion/Devotion feats, respectively.

Less sure on sorcerer, but more than likely I'd end up going CM or PHB2. CM gives reserve feats, wild soul for a bit of versatility, and a bunch of good spells. PHB2 gives metamagic specialist, arcane thesis, and some more good spells.

[tyckspoon]

I'm surprised noone's mentioned PHBII yet. It has Abrupt Jaunt and Celerity.

Abrupt Jaunt is not relevant to a Sorcerer. Arcane Thesis and the Metamagic Specialist ACF are worth looking at, tho, as well as spells like Celerity, Greater Mirror Image, and some of the other Swift/Immediate spells in the book.