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BungleBee
2013-09-03, 08:40 AM
I can't think of one that needs killin' more than Tarquin.

Can you?

TRH
2013-09-03, 08:47 AM
I think there was this skeleton dude running around a while back, and he seemed kind of rude. Might need a stern talking-to at some point, though I don't want to rock any boats.

Rakoa
2013-09-03, 08:49 AM
I can't think of one that needs killin' more than Tarquin.

Can you?

How about...Xykon?

Zerter
2013-09-03, 08:49 AM
Walter White, Ramsay Snow.

BadAndyMk3
2013-09-03, 08:52 AM
Yeah, I'm ready to be done with Tarkin.

TRH
2013-09-03, 08:54 AM
Yeah, I'm ready to be done with Tarkin.

Oh, yeah! Tarkin also needed killing more than Tarquin, what with his planet-killer and all. Good catch, there.

Kish
2013-09-03, 08:58 AM
Xykon died a long time ago.
Start of Darkness spoiler:
Redcloak killed him.

martianmister
2013-09-03, 08:58 AM
Don't forget Belkar.

Dwy
2013-09-03, 08:59 AM
I start to suspect that somehow, Belkar will get the killing blow, dishonorably, just after Elan's plan fails, then die and be our permanent eyes and ears in hell.

DiamondHooHaMan
2013-09-03, 09:04 AM
:redcloak: :xykon: the Arch Fiends. quite possibly the Dark one?

TRH
2013-09-03, 09:04 AM
Xykon died a long time ago.
Start of Darkness spoiler:
Redcloak killed him.

How does Xykon's having been "killed" (for a very dubious value of the word killed) once already obviate the necessity of it happening again, exactly? :smallconfused:

Heksefatter
2013-09-03, 09:16 AM
Tarquin is repulsive, but after reading SoD, there is no villain I can despise more than Xykon.

Dwy
2013-09-03, 09:18 AM
... but of course, Belkar will die inside the riftworld, fullfilling both the "drawn his last breath"- and the "not long for this world"-prophecies simultaneously. How could I miss that?

Silver Swift
2013-09-03, 10:05 AM
Can you?
Sure, just of the top of my head:

- The joker from The Dark Knight
- Psimax from Goblins
- A bunch of people from the Dresden Files, Nicodemus and Lara Raith in particular spring to mind
- Light from Death Note
- Half the cast from A Song of Ice and Fire
- Bud the eisbiber from Grimm*

And there are probably a bunch of fictional people that are significantly worse than this list. Tarquin is bad, but nowhere near the top of fictional people that deserve to die. Heck, if we count people that have already died he might not even make the top five in his own story, Malack, Xykon, Tsukiko, Kabuto and pre-redemption-arc V are all worse.

*: This is obviously a joke, but I've been rewatching Grimm recently and god, I can't stand that guy

TriForce
2013-09-03, 10:20 AM
even tough Tarquin is still a great villain character, yes, im done with him, he is drawing a little TOO much of the story towards him (yes i realize that is his intention) and the order has actually outgrown HIM, even tough he didnt realize it yet

BlackDragonKing
2013-09-03, 10:27 AM
I can't think of one that needs killin' more than Tarquin.

Can you?

Tarquin's a ruthless bastard, that's for sure, but he's not even the most despicable villain IN THE COMIC, let alone in fiction. He's got a ways to go yet before I can find him as repugnant as Xykon.

goodyarn
2013-09-03, 10:30 AM
I can't think of one that needs killin' more than Tarquin.

But, as Tarquin keeps saying, if Elan kills him, he WINS!

I am ready for Tarquin to be taken down. But it can't be death and it can't be by Elan. And I think it needs to be something that sucks all the joy out of his career as a dictator.

That said, I still think he's a highly original villain. He's like the anti-Darth Vader.
His evil plan revolves around his son NOT turning to the dark side.

Gift Jeraff
2013-09-03, 10:33 AM
Leave Xykon alone!! It's been almost 500 strips since he killed anyone on-panel, and since then he has only been known to kill 1 person (the head executioner who misspelled guillotine). He has reformed!

Silver Swift
2013-09-03, 10:47 AM
But, as Tarquin keeps saying, if Elan kills him, he WINS!

I am ready for Tarquin to be taken down. But it can't be death and it can't be by Elan. And I think it needs to be something that sucks all the joy out of his career as a dictator.

Can I address this again? <Bleep> Tarquins reasoning, just kill the guy. If he thinks dying is winning then let hem keep thinking that in the afterlife, where he at least can't harm anyone any more. Helping his victims and preventing him from making any more has a much higher priority than making Tarquin unhappy.

Buying into Tarquins logic and making this about him is, by that same logic, a win for Tarquin. If Elan finds some way to deal out poetic justice then that just makes Tarquins story all the more interesting, resulting in a win for him. There is no way to make him lose if you let him decide his own victory conditions, so just settle for winning yourself, shoot stab him, and move on to more important matters.

RadagastTheBrow
2013-09-03, 04:52 PM
If Elan finds some way to deal out poetic justice then that just makes Tarquins story all the more interesting, resulting in a win for him. There is no way to make him lose if you let him decide his own victory conditions, so just settle for winning yourself, shoot stab him, and move on to more important matters.

How about limerick justice? Free-meter? Interpretive dance-battle for Gotham's soul?

For my part, I've wanted Tarquin dead for a while now. Or at least severely set back somehow. Visibly frustrated in his goals. The villain hasn't had any non-backstory losses so far that I can count, and that bugs me. (He wasn't actually fighting to preserve Malack. An unfortunate setback, but not a failure.) He also hasn't shown weaknesses other than "Is related to Elan" and "Is over-the-top EVILLLLLL." Hell, Xykon has had more embarrassments than the Tarq! This strikes me as vaguely Sue-ish and generally uncomfortable. Dude needs a loss, hard.

Rogar Demonblud
2013-09-04, 08:21 PM
I've wanted him dead since before he pulled off his helmet, so I think his demise is long overdue. Likewise with Malack, although that bill came due.

I think people are also forgetting that Elan is a bard, and therefore is the guy who will write the history. I'm sure he can do plenty of things to screw up Daddy Un-Dearest's legacy.

Lord Raziere
2013-09-04, 09:27 PM
well either Elan will pull off his plan right now, or it will fail, and V will come back and does what V does best.

namely.

Disintegrate.

Gust of Wind…

heck maybe Elan's plan, is summoning V somehow for her to do that. but thats completely ridiculous and far-fetched, I'm sure its something completely else.

Ramien
2013-09-04, 09:49 PM
well either Elan will pull off his plan right now, or it will fail, and V will come back and does what V does best.

namely.

Disintegrate.

Gust of Wind…

heck maybe Elan's plan, is summoning V somehow for her to do that. but thats completely ridiculous and far-fetched, I'm sure its something completely else.

Considering we've already seen Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0900.html) and Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html) survive Disintegrate from a higher-level caster than V, I think Tarquin will be quite operational when V arrives... Not to mention V still needs to blast their way out of the chamber they're currently trapped in.

BungleBee
2013-09-04, 10:02 PM
My apologies for mis-wording my question.

I meant in other comics. So sorry!

TRH
2013-09-04, 10:06 PM
My apologies for mis-wording my question.

I meant in other comics. So sorry!

You better be sorry! There's only 24 hours in a day, and a zillion other threads on this board for us to inundate with our soul-crushing pedantry! Whatever time we spent over here is time that couldn't be spent nitpicking in some other thread - I hope you're happy, sir. :smallmad:

Shred-Bot
2013-09-04, 10:06 PM
well either Elan will pull off his plan right now, or it will fail, and V will come back and does what V does best.

namely.

Disintegrate.

Gust of Wind…

heck maybe Elan's plan, is summoning V somehow for her to do that. but thats completely ridiculous and far-fetched, I'm sure its something completely else.

Well this IS Elan we're talking about... ridiculous and far-fetched is very much what he does.

137beth
2013-09-05, 04:05 AM
Fictional Hitler! He totally needs to be fictionally killed before Tarquin!

Leolo
2013-09-05, 04:22 AM
But, as Tarquin keeps saying, if Elan kills him, he WINS!


The point is: Who cares? There will be a moment when Elan realizes that it doesn't matter what his father would consider a win.

All that matters is to end the danger he is to the people in his realm and the world.

It was the same as with Roy, Xykon and Roy's Dad. Roy started to go after Xykon because of his dad. He did what his dad want from him.

Now he still goes after Xykon. But not because it makes his dad proud or sad - he does it because it is the right thing.

When Elan kills Tarquin in a big awesome fight, after approaching on the back of a dragon in the rain, Tarquin might think he has won.

It just doesn't matter, and that is why in truth he has lost.

Bulldog Psion
2013-09-05, 05:35 AM
Exactly, who cares if Tarquin thinks he's won as he's dying? :smallconfused: Dead is dead. Cut him down and let his last thought be whatever he wants it to be. If he dies with a smile on his face -- well, he's still dead and the world is a marginally brighter place.

Mike Havran
2013-09-05, 12:51 PM
My apologies for mis-wording my question.

I meant in other comics. So sorry!
I've got this guy (http://danielscreations.com/ola/comics/ep0268.html).

Edit: The above link is spoileriffic, so if you are interested in another webcomic this is the first strip (http://danielscreations.com/ola/comics/first.html).

masamune1
2013-09-05, 01:07 PM
The point is: Who cares? There will be a moment when Elan realizes that it doesn't matter what his father would consider a win.

All that matters is to end the danger he is to the people in his realm and the world.

It was the same as with Roy, Xykon and Roy's Dad. Roy started to go after Xykon because of his dad. He did what his dad want from him.

Now he still goes after Xykon. But not because it makes his dad proud or sad - he does it because it is the right thing.

When Elan kills Tarquin in a big awesome fight, after approaching on the back of a dragon in the rain, Tarquin might think he has won.

It just doesn't matter, and that is why in truth he has lost.


Exactly, who cares if Tarquin thinks he's won as he's dying? :smallconfused: Dead is dead. Cut him down and let his last thought be whatever he wants it to be. If he dies with a smile on his face -- well, he's still dead and the world is a marginally brighter place.

Well, depending on how realistic the story would play out, killing Tarquin might be quite disastrous. He is the head of three major empires and the guy keeping everything in order- in short, after his death might well be chaos. Especially if he is right about a bunch of other Tarquin-wannabes showing up and being inspired to outdo him.

Sunken Valley
2013-09-05, 01:12 PM
Does anyone else think Tarquin will kill himself? That Elan's plan will discredit and ruin him but not kill him and he'll kill himself out of defeat.

Taelas
2013-09-05, 01:17 PM
To everyone who says Elan should ignore Tarquin's "victory condition":

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: "I'll inspire a thousand more leaders to follow in my footsteps. And it will all be thanks to you, my boy."

Ellye
2013-09-05, 03:25 PM
Tarquin is repulsive, but after reading SoD, there is no villain I can despise more than Xykon.I don't know if Xykon is the most despicable villain in the OotS-world, but after reading SoD, I do know one thing:
He's the most terrifying and frightening one. And this doesn't really have much to do with his power level.

But, for now, I do think Tarquin is the one that deserves to die.

Burner28
2013-09-05, 03:29 PM
Leave Xykon alone!! It's been almost 500 strips since he killed anyone on-panel, and since then he has only been known to kill 1 person (the head executioner who misspelled guillotine). He has reformed!

Does that mean he is Lawful Neutral now?:smalltongue:

Roland Itiative
2013-09-05, 03:34 PM
- Half the cast from A Song of Ice and Fire
Well, that's a matter of time. Might not be the half you expect to die, though :smalltongue:

And yeah, Xykon is still much more of a loose cannon than Tarquin. Sure, Tarquin is a complete monster, but his ideal at least brings some stability. Xykon brings only destruction (and a few very good jokes :smalltongue:).

BenjCano
2013-09-05, 04:56 PM
I gotta agree with the folks that are nominating Evil McCrazy, aka Ramsay Snow from Game of Thrones.

Harbinger
2013-09-06, 09:35 PM
And there are probably a bunch of fictional people that are significantly worse than this list. Tarquin is bad, but nowhere near the top of fictional people that deserve to die. Heck, if we count people that have already died he might not even make the top five in his own story, Malack, Xykon, Tsukiko, Kabuto and pre-redemption-arc V are all worse.


I'd say Tarquin is as bad as Malack and Xykon, but all three are most certainly much worse than Tsukiko and Kubota. Kubota was just a very corrupt politician who killed a few dozen people. Tsukiko just killed a couple dozen/hundred people and defiled their corpses. That's nothing compared to Tarquin's 1984-esque dictatorship over half a continent, affecting millions of people. Or for that matter Malack's plan to commit ritual genocide. Or even the thousands of people Xykon has slaughtered for no real reason.

...Geez, this comic is dark.

Paseo H
2013-09-06, 10:39 PM
I'd say Tarquin is as bad as Malack and Xykon, but all three are most certainly much worse than Tsukiko and Kubota. Kubota was just a very corrupt politician who killed a few dozen people. Tsukiko just killed a couple dozen/hundred people and defiled their corpses. That's nothing compared to Tarquin's 1984-esque dictatorship over half a continent, affecting millions of people. Or for that matter Malack's plan to commit ritual genocide. Or even the thousands of people Xykon has slaughtered for no real reason.

...Geez, this comic is dark.

How about Darth V?

In all honesty, what we saw was what happens when someone is willing to become 'drunk on the dark side,' all those tiny moments of terrible behavior we saw throughout the comic came into full power, and thanks to borrowed epic magic from one of the most evil necromancers to ever live, wielded with horrifying effect.

Point is, everything the narrative has told us so far is that everything about the Familicide incident was entirely V's responsibility, as to his credit he's come to realize.

That means, even without the intervention of the fiends, he was likely heading towards Neutral Evil simply by momentum of his darker traits fueling his search for "ultimate arcane power."

Now, imagine if Tsukiko or Kubota had that sort of power in their grasp?

Gift Jeraff
2013-09-06, 11:31 PM
I think way more than a few dozen people died as a result of Kubota. It seems like a few dozen (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0508.html) died in just the sea troll attack, and attacks like that were happening on practically a weekly basis (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0507.html) over the course of several months. And that's not counting the charmed aquatic creatures themselves.

Give him Xykon-level power (which he apparently tried 8 times (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html)) and I'm sure he'd be in the big leagues.

The Kind Knido
2013-09-06, 11:38 PM
I think there was this skeleton dude running around a while back, and he seemed kind of rude. Might need a stern talking-to at some point, though I don't want to rock any boats.

Xykon seems to be getting written out of the story as of late along with his... green thing. I think it was a turtle. Oh, and some umbrella monster or something.

But really, it feels like forever since we got to this desert. I hope we don't get another Azure City/Desert thing after we're done killing Tarquin and moving the hell on. I'd prefer a way shorter time spent in Snow Zone.

Obscure Blade
2013-09-07, 04:48 AM
I can't think of one that needs killin' more than Tarquin.

Can you?Sure. The Three Fiends for example. Given that they are immortal beings of pure evil, it's pretty certain that's they've caused more harm than Tarquin ever has or could. There's plenty of villains that operate on a scale of time and/or space much greater than Tarquin, and plenty who are more extravagantly evil.

Leolo
2013-09-07, 05:45 AM
To everyone who says Elan should ignore Tarquin's "victory condition":

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: "I'll inspire a thousand more leaders to follow in my footsteps. And it will all be thanks to you, my boy."

The point is: He already has. Those villians already have seen tarquin living like a king for many years. If elan kills him or a unknown paladin kills him - hey, it is a difference for tarquin, but is it a difference for such leaders? I doubt it.

In fact as more complicated elans plan would be, as less likely those ruthless villians might see this outcome.

But because Tarquin would feel this outcome as a win people think they should avoid it so he sees himself loosing. But that only is playing the game by tarquins rules, and this rules include: Whatever happens, i already have won.

Even if his last 10 minutes would really, really suck. He could still came out and say: who cares, i had my time.

It would be better to not play this game, to simple ignore what tarquins consider a win.

Chantelune
2013-09-07, 06:02 AM
The point is: He already has. Those villians already have seen tarquin living like a king for many years. If elan kills him or a unknown paladin kills him - hey, it is a difference for tarquin, but is it a difference for such leaders? I doubt it.

In fact as more complicated elans plan would be, as less likely those ruthless villians might see this outcome.



You might forget one crucial point : To the outside eyes, Tarquin is just the general of the Empire of Blood. He goes to great deal so that no one actually knows that him and his party are the true rulers of the continent.

Villains might see him having a pretty neat position, but they might not realize the true extent of his power. That will probably be revealed along with the songs, as it would need to explain why Tarquin had to be taken down to put the hero in the savior shoes.

If Tarquin were to die there, out in the desert, with no one left to reveal how he was actually the power behind the throne, people might just think that the general of the EoB went to the desert with his army for some reason and died there, somehow. Not quite material for an epic song.

and this is the tricky part : Tarquin hasn't already won, because his grand scheme for being a legend is dependant on that little point : people need to know the small details for him to be revealed as the true villain he was during most of his life.

I tend to think that this might be the weak point in Tarquin's armor : Even if Elan were to kill him in an epic duel in the castle, the victor get to write the tale if there's no witness. As such, Elan could simply "forget" some details over his tale, diminishing his own role in it, maybe even depicting Tarquin as just some mook that was in his way.

If he manage that, Tarquin will have lost, even with his conditions met.

Dwy
2013-09-07, 07:59 AM
I still think Elan could do some serious damage to Tarquin's rep prior to an eventual showdown by using the powers displayed here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0217.html, in the guise as Tarquin via sending.

Taelas
2013-09-07, 08:01 AM
The point is: He already has. Those villians already have seen tarquin living like a king for many years. If elan kills him or a unknown paladin kills him - hey, it is a difference for tarquin, but is it a difference for such leaders? I doubt it.

In fact as more complicated elans plan would be, as less likely those ruthless villians might see this outcome.

But because Tarquin would feel this outcome as a win people think they should avoid it so he sees himself loosing. But that only is playing the game by tarquins rules, and this rules include: Whatever happens, i already have won.

Even if his last 10 minutes would really, really suck. He could still came out and say: who cares, i had my time.

It would be better to not play this game, to simple ignore what tarquins consider a win.

No. So far he is only known as the ruler to very few. The more epic his downfall, the more his legend spreads.

The way to beat Tarquin is to make him (and the rest of his team) disappear. Go quietly into the night.

Harbinger
2013-09-07, 09:50 AM
How about Darth V?

In all honesty, what we saw was what happens when someone is willing to become 'drunk on the dark side,' all those tiny moments of terrible behavior we saw throughout the comic came into full power, and thanks to borrowed epic magic from one of the most evil necromancers to ever live, wielded with horrifying effect.

Point is, everything the narrative has told us so far is that everything about the Familicide incident was entirely V's responsibility, as to his credit he's come to realize.

That means, even without the intervention of the fiends, he was likely heading towards Neutral Evil simply by momentum of his darker traits fueling his search for "ultimate arcane power."

Now, imagine if Tsukiko or Kubota had that sort of power in their grasp?

I'm sure both Kubota and Tsukiko would be much more dangerous with epic magic, but the reason they are less evil than Tarquin, Malack, Xykon, etc, is a matter of motivation. Kubota wants power. Over one city. That's certainly unpleasant, but Xykon wants power over the entire world. Tarquin already rules most of a continent. Malack was set up to do the same in few decades. Contrast Tsukiko's motivation to be in a romantic relationship with a talking skeleton.

Would Kubota be as evil as Xykon if he were an epic lich sorcerer? Maybe, but he isn't is the thing.

RadagastTheBrow
2013-09-07, 09:52 AM
As such, Elan could simply "forget" some details over his tale, diminishing his own role in it, maybe even depicting Tarquin as just some mook that was in his way.

If he manage that, Tarquin will have lost, even with his conditions met.

Maybe that's his plan with Durkon? I think Elan's getting to the point of self-awareness that he wouldn't trust his own judgement over his stories, and he needs Geas or something to keep him from ever talking about Tarquin.

:elan: Durkon! This is really important, I need you to make me forget something!
:durkon: Aye, lad, wha' did tha halfling do now?
:elan: Not now, later. It's complicated.

Chantelune
2013-09-07, 10:13 AM
I still think Elan could do some serious damage to Tarquin's rep prior to an eventual showdown by using the powers displayed here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0217.html, in the guise as Tarquin via sending.

I'm not sure an illusion might work through sending. The spell description is rather blurry regarding that, only stating that if the target know the sender, he will know its from him. It doesn't actually says nothing about seeing the sender, so it's possible that it works like that in the ootsverse to make it more "visual" or something.


Maybe that's his plan with Durkon? I think Elan's getting to the point of self-awareness that he wouldn't trust his own judgement over his stories, and he needs Geas or something to keep him from ever talking about Tarquin.

:elan: Durkon! This is really important, I need you to make me forget something!
:durkon: Aye, lad, wha' did tha halfling do now?
:elan: Not now, later. It's complicated.

Thought about how Durkon could actually be imperative for this plan, but can figure it out. Elan doesn't actually need to forget anything, just omit a few choice bits. And is there even a way for a cleric to wipe a memory than a wizard couldn't (so he would need Durkon and not V or both.) ?

Bulldog Psion
2013-09-07, 01:43 PM
To everyone who says Elan should ignore Tarquin's "victory condition":

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: "I'll inspire a thousand more leaders to follow in my footsteps. And it will all be thanks to you, my boy."

I kind of doubt that there would never be another tyrant anywhere if not for the "inspiration" of Tarquin. As usual, he's just trying to take credit for everything, even stuff that has basically nothing to do with him. :smallamused:

And furthermore, as noted, he's nothing but a rather persistent general in the eyes of the world, a footnote to various empires. Where is this fame coming from? :smallconfused:

Taelas
2013-09-07, 03:12 PM
I kind of doubt that there would never be another tyrant anywhere if not for the "inspiration" of Tarquin. As usual, he's just trying to take credit for everything, even stuff that has basically nothing to do with him. :smallamused:

And furthermore, as noted, he's nothing but a rather persistent general in the eyes of the world, a footnote to various empires. Where is this fame coming from? :smallconfused:

Tarquin never said that without him, there would never be other tyrants like him. He said he would specifically inspire a thousand like him. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

The fame comes from the final, epic battle, where the Truth will be Revealed, where the Hero vanquishes the Evil Villain, etcetera, etcetera.

Aasimar
2013-09-07, 04:25 PM
Ramsey Snow...I mean...seriously, there's no villain that needs more killing than him.

Lord Raziere
2013-09-07, 05:42 PM
I kind of doubt that there would never be another tyrant anywhere if not for the "inspiration" of Tarquin. As usual, he's just trying to take credit for everything, even stuff that has basically nothing to do with him. :smallamused:

And furthermore, as noted, he's nothing but a rather persistent general in the eyes of the world, a footnote to various empires. Where is this fame coming from? :smallconfused:

yea, he is really just a guy with delusions of grandeur. sure he controls a lot of the continent, but this only because he IS NOT in the spotlight. being in the spot light is what causes leaders to die in the first place on this continent. as far as they know, he is just this mercenary general who has managed to stay alive by playing the game for longer than most. heck, considering that the world is mostly medieval, I wouldn't be surprised if no one even knows about the Empire of Blood on other continents, much less the deeds of a specific general.

what really, has he done to earn his fame? he has done nothing outside of one fight scene, and while a lot of the things he does is reasonable, they certainly aren't awesome by any stretch of the word…because they are too reasonable. really, look at him, how much has he really done that isn't just sitting around and letting things happen, or making others do things for him? and even in the fight scene he was in, he wasn't serious about what he was doing. while all the horrible things he has done, we were clearly shown to us.

he has been all talk, no show, or very little show. I'm beginning to think he is just a complete monster who just likes to talk up his own awesome and ego excessively, just like any other dictator who uses propaganda, and that the whole "kill me and I will become more famous than you can possibly imagine!" is just a lie to deter heroes from killing him as a survival mechanism, otherwise why say his plan out loud? he has to know that no plan you say out loud is going to work, and he is a sociopath so he should be very good at faking sincerity…

Amphiox
2013-09-07, 11:57 PM
To everyone who says Elan should ignore Tarquin's "victory condition":

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: "I'll inspire a thousand more leaders to follow in my footsteps. And it will all be thanks to you, my boy."

Well, from the pure utility standpoint, if each of those thousand leaders inspired to follow T's footsteps were less than one thousandth as competent and dangerous as Tarquin, then the world still wins if Tarquin is squished.

Taelas
2013-09-08, 12:32 AM
Well, from the pure utility standpoint, if each of those thousand leaders inspired to follow T's footsteps were less than one thousandth as competent and dangerous as Tarquin, then the world still wins if Tarquin is squished.

Somehow, I do not think that is a likely scenario. :smallamused:

masamune1
2013-09-08, 06:03 AM
yea, he is really just a guy with delusions of grandeur. sure he controls a lot of the continent, but this only because he IS NOT in the spotlight. being in the spot light is what causes leaders to die in the first place on this continent. as far as they know, he is just this mercenary general who has managed to stay alive by playing the game for longer than most. heck, considering that the world is mostly medieval, I wouldn't be surprised if no one even knows about the Empire of Blood on other continents, much less the deeds of a specific general.

what really, has he done to earn his fame? he has done nothing outside of one fight scene, and while a lot of the things he does is reasonable, they certainly aren't awesome by any stretch of the word…because they are too reasonable. really, look at him, how much has he really done that isn't just sitting around and letting things happen, or making others do things for him? and even in the fight scene he was in, he wasn't serious about what he was doing. while all the horrible things he has done, we were clearly shown to us.

he has been all talk, no show, or very little show. I'm beginning to think he is just a complete monster who just likes to talk up his own awesome and ego excessively, just like any other dictator who uses propaganda, and that the whole "kill me and I will become more famous than you can possibly imagine!" is just a lie to deter heroes from killing him as a survival mechanism, otherwise why say his plan out loud? he has to know that no plan you say out loud is going to work, and he is a sociopath so he should be very good at faking sincerity…

That's only true for step-by-step plans that the narrative is about to focus on. Even then, there are exceptions.

Staying out of the spotlight is part of his plan- Tarquin also has phenomenal powers of organization, and is an excellent political and military strategist with a veteran team of high-level evil adventurers helping him out. The reason he can sit down and let things happen (though much of those are actually things he has orchestrated in the background) is because of the system he has expertly constructed. He's not playing an RPG anymore so much as he is playing a Strategy or God-sim like Civilization or Total War, and if you play those games well and properly you'll always get to the point where you won't have to do all that much, because such games area all about setting up your victory. We're just meeting him at a time when he's already well on his way to winning, and he's been working on that for fifteen years.

I think Tarquin is more or less counting on bread crumbs to cement his legacy. I think most people in the Empire of Blood accept him as the de facto Chief of State, in that he's the one whose helmeted face is on all the messages, who gives all the big speeches, and who is running their military forces, not to mention he is the guy who is behind every Empress and Emperor they have had in the last decade and a half. Its more for the world outside the EoB that the ruse is for. Even then, people like Ian Starshine and probably others have figured it out, and Tarquin isn't averse to letting his kids know the score even if they are opposed to him. Hell even the army of the Empire of Tears knows the score. In the right circles, its an open secret. But too many people are in on the con to make a difference- Tarquin gives the right people a life of perks.

Basically, Tarquin is feeling that when he's killed, firstly his system will likely fall apart (so the difference will be evident), and secondly the secret will start to come out. And it probably would, because enough people know that the truth will out. And its unlikely that the OotS would conspire to keep the truth down. Tarquin's delusions of grandeur are more to do with the fact that he seems to think the narrative / universe revolves around him.

Chantelune
2013-09-08, 06:52 AM
[...snip...]

he has been all talk, no show, or very little show. I'm beginning to think he is just a complete monster who just likes to talk up his own awesome and ego excessively, just like any other dictator who uses propaganda, and that the whole "kill me and I will become more famous than you can possibly imagine!" is just a lie to deter heroes from killing him as a survival mechanism, otherwise why say his plan out loud? he has to know that no plan you say out loud is going to work, and he is a sociopath so he should be very good at faking sincerity…

He is in a position where he doesn't need to show off and playing on the fact that people will somehow underestimate him as they focus on the big red dragon instead of the general. Sure, he might talks himself bigger than he is, but that doesn't mean he's weak or something. He did proved that he was capable enough to deal with most of the order by himself in a fight without even pushing himself, if what Malack said is true.

As for his plan, I think it's because Tarquin is genuinly convinced that the world is ruled by narrative. So no matter if he explains his plan to Elan, the narrative forces of the ootsverse will force him in his designed role and the more he struggle, the more he'll become what Tarquin wants him to be because Tarquin is trying to set up the story that way (and believe he already did).

And he's right, on some level. If the story was about defeating Tarquin, then a typical way of telling that story would likely involve Elan stepping up to being the main character as he would have the more motivation (or feeling the most responsible) to put tarquin down. Thing is, the story is about Xykon and Tarquin is the side villain that will serve as a stepstone for the order to grow stronger so they can fight the big boss in the end.

Talvereaux
2013-09-08, 06:55 AM
But, as Tarquin keeps saying, if Elan kills him, he WINS!

I am ready for Tarquin to be taken down. But it can't be death and it can't be by Elan. And I think it needs to be something that sucks all the joy out of his career as a dictator.

That said, I still think he's a highly original villain. He's like the anti-Darth Vader.
His evil plan revolves around his son NOT turning to the dark side.

I think he's already shown his hand on why it isn't true that he "wins no matter what".

In the most recent strips, he's made it abundantly clear how important it is that he make his self out to be the main villain in the comic. He has such a fanatical adherence to the idea he's the A-Plotline of OOTS that he's claimed the safety of the world "is meaningless" unless the story pans out how he wants it to, with his son as the hero of this webcomic and Roy out of the picture entirely. But we already know that will never be the case.

Further digging his grave, in becoming a direct threat to the Order rather than something they could theoretically put off to the aftermath of the storyline with Xykon and the Gates, he's very likely to die before the Order leaves the Western Continent.

Most likely, he'll catch on to his actual role in the story by the time he draws his last breath. This webcomic is not about him and his sons. He was never the central villain he wanted to be. His good son is not the protagonist he wanted him to be. His evil son certainly wasn't the heir he would have wanted, either, taking none of his lessons to heart and in his final words dismissing all the love and affection he gave him. The next book will feature a far grander story that has virtually nothing to do with him. After how big a deal he's made over both his family and the integrity of the narrative he established, I think that will absolutely crush him.

Rogar Demonblud
2013-09-09, 11:23 AM
Tarquin's attitude reminds me in part of Frank Lloyd Wright, who also had ego issues. But he could back it up. I believe the quote was "It isn't bragging it it's the truth".

So the question isn't Tarquin's sizeable ego, but if he can back it up. He's not doing too bad at that, but I think he might be the pre-eminent example of the-----I don't know what TV Tropes calls it, but a good description would be Karmic Backlash Accumulation. It you keep pushing until you get whapped, and the further and longer you push, the harder karma gets you.