Streamline Knowledge Devotion

[Firechanter]

Knowledge Devotion is a fantastic feat, but I am a bit annoyed about the amount of rolling this adds to the fights. So I would like to streamline this and eliminate the rolls. I'm just not sure how.

Option 1: just Take 10.
This would make it extremely easy to get a permanent +2/+2 from 1st level on. Then there would be no change for about 10 levels, then they'd advance to +3/+3. That seems a bit frontloaded.

Option 2: write a table with required skill checks.
So you compare your ranks+Int mod - but without rolling a d20 - with the following progression:

<10: +1/+1
10: +2/+2
15: +3/+3
20: +4/+4
25: +5/+5

So everyone could get some return out of it; it would be a bit more difficult to get to +2/+2, but then it gets a bit easier compared to standard rules to achieve higher bonuses.

Also does away with "Last time I fought a Troll I got +3, and now only +1? Did I forget what I already knew?"

Or do you people keep lists of creatures that the players have already rolled on, and use the same bonus until a changed skill rank warrants a re-roll?

[BowStreetRunner]

First of all, I love the feat. My last half-dozen characters all had it, so I have lots of experience using it.

My experience has been that there was no real problem with the number of rolls. Our DM did not require normal knowledge checks, knowledge devotion checks, and archivist dark knowledge checks be made separately. So if you had knowledge devotion or dark knowledge (or both) you just made one check and it counted for all of the above.

In addition, since knowledge devotion checks are made by creature Type, this really only requires one check per Type present in an encounter. We simply make a note of the bonus for each Type and use that throughout the encounter.

[kestrel404]

Rather than making it static based on level - which IMO completely negates the idea of being 'knowledgeable', since it removes the need for investment in knowledge skills - you could instead make the bonus granted be deterministic for a given level of skill.

For example, you could apply the 'take 10' method and remove the roll altogether so you get:
{table=head]Skill Rank|Bonus
1|+1
5|+2
9|+3
13|+4
17+|+5[/table]

Thus, as you advance in level, you can increase the bonus by spending skill points on the appropriate skill - but you have to invest the skill ranks to get the bonus.
This way, you know that if you're up against a Fey, and you have 9 ranks of Know(Nature), you get +3/+3 against that enemy.

Also, this method does not penalize character who are not int-primary but have lots of knowledge about a specific creature type. Makes the skill much more accessible to Monks, Bards, Rogues and Fighters.

[SciChronic]

First of all, I love the feat. My last half-dozen characters all had it, so I have lots of experience using it.

My experience has been that there was no real problem with the number of rolls. Our DM did not require normal knowledge checks, knowledge devotion checks, and archivist dark knowledge checks be made separately. So if you had knowledge devotion or dark knowledge (or both) you just made one check and it counted for all of the above.

In addition, since knowledge devotion checks are made by creature Type, this really only requires one check per Type present in an encounter. We simply make a note of the bonus for each Type and use that throughout the encounter.

i remember asking a question about making separate rolls in the Q&A thread, the response i got was that the Knowledge devotion check IS the same rolls as a standard knowledge check to identify an enemy, meaning you can use the collector of stories skill trick to boost the benefit.