[PF] Multiple ranged sneak sttacks from stealth

[cloudjsh7]

My rogue PC is building a sniper build. Though suboptimal, it was his character concept and he insisted upon it. (I love when my PC's choose character over efficiency, don't you? ^_^)
Anyways, I am aware of the 'Sniping' rules under the Stealth skill description but it was still a little unclear to me.

If he starts his turn already stealthed, can he use Rapid Shot and have both attack count as sneak attacks?

[Fax Celestis]

No. If his opponents are unaware of him, his first attack that round is against a flat-footed opponent.

However, if he has access to greater invisibility or similar, that would allow his opponent to be flat-footed through the entire full attack. I doubt he does, though: that's a semi-high level effect.

If he's dead-set on sniping, you might want to look at the Marksman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/marksman)'s sniper path (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/marksman/marksman-combat-styles) and/or the Shroud archetype. The combination of ranged-damage focus with the Marksman's psionic powers make it a very good pick for this concept.

[NightbringerGGZ]

The first attack draws attention from the target and he is no longer considered hidden from sight, so normally the second ranged attack would not deal sneak attack damage. If you use the sniping rules then he can roll a stealth check after each shot to remain hidden, but takes a -20 penalty on the check. If he manages to make the check then he remains hidden and the next attack will be a sneak attack.

[Psyren]

Actually, by my reading - if the target hasn't acted yet, they would be flatfooted for the entire first round, thus eating a whole sequence of sneak attacks.

That's not specifically related to Sniping though.

[Fax Celestis]

Actually, by my reading - if the target hasn't acted yet, they would be flatfooted for the entire first round, thus eating a whole sequence of sneak attacks.

That's not specifically related to Sniping though.

Well, yes. First round of combat etc etc.

[cloudjsh7]

Thanks for the quick replies. ^_^
The scenario in question is not the first round of combat, but yes, I am aware of the flat-footed(ness?) of the first round.

@NightbringerGGZ - are you saying he can make consecutive Stealth checks for sniping between shots? RAW, the 'Sniping' section of Stealth makes it sound like you can make a single standard action. It doesn't say it explicitly, of course. But it sounds like it.

[Khantin]

The first attack draws attention from the target and he is no longer considered hidden from sight, so normally the second ranged attack would not deal sneak attack damage. If you use the sniping rules then he can roll a stealth check after each shot to remain hidden, but takes a -20 penalty on the check. If he manages to make the check then he remains hidden and the next attack will be a sneak attack.

Iirc there us a racial feat for halflings and kobolds to reduce the penalty for stealth sniping TO 10, and a rogue advanced talent to reduce the penalty BY 10. That is probably the best way to go for mundane ranged sneak attacks.

alternately, you could get fog cutting lenses and use some kind of fog cloud to get concealment and sneak attacks.


Edit: checked my facts and there is only a halfling alternate racial ability to reduce the penalty BY 10. The rogue talent is all good though

[cloudjsh7]

Finally back on my computer instead of a phone. :smallsmile:

I probably should've been more clear on my first post. The game has already been going on for about two months and his character is already built (human rogue).

What I'm trying to find out is if he can use the Rapid Shot feat from stealth and have both arrows count as sneak attacks.


Sniping:
If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.

Sniping says "you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again." It doesn't say one standard action, but rather one ranged attack. RAI, it sounds like they meant for one standard action- but RAW, it doesn't really look like it. So it sounds like he can roll Stealth at a -20 between shots? But then after that, once he's done shooting and wants to stay in stealth he can roll again at a -20 before his turn is done?

Just getting some clarification on this. Thanks!

[Psyren]

Restealthing during a snipe is a move action. If you have multiple move actions you can attempt to restealth multiple times, but this is obviously not easy to do, especially more than once.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Thanks for the quick replies. ^_^
The scenario in question is not the first round of combat, but yes, I am aware of the flat-footed(ness?) of the first round.

@NightbringerGGZ - are you saying he can make consecutive Stealth checks for sniping between shots? RAW, the 'Sniping' section of Stealth makes it sound like you can make a single standard action. It doesn't say it explicitly, of course. But it sounds like it.

I just re-read the section, and it probably is RAI that you can only make one attack per round. Sniping isn't specified as an action though, so my initial interpretation was that you could make iterative attacks. You would just have a much higher chance of eventually failing (and thus being unable to use Stealth again during that combat).


Restealthing during a snipe is a move action. If you have multiple move actions you can attempt to restealth multiple times, but this is obviously not easy to do, especially more than once.

Well the relevant text says you immediately make the stealth check, so I've been interpreting that to be an immediate action not a move action.

Relevant Passage for Reference:

If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.

[Psyren]

Well the relevant text says you immediately make the stealth check, so I've been interpreting that to be an immediate action not a move action.

You missed the one vital part of every skill's text - the Action section.


Action

Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.