[3.5] Using XP tracker to award GP: Fair?

[Maginomicon]

I devised an XP tracker calculator in Excel that tells me how much GP a character should make in a given encounter based on their current level and how much XP they earned in the encounter.

The goal was so that by the time they reach each subsequent level, they'll have gained exactly the WBL amount of the new level. Thus, an incoming player that is coming in with WBL is no better or worse off than the average person already in the party.

That is, a ratio of...

XP they earned that encounter --- GP they "should" earn that encounter
----------------------------------- = -------------------------------------------------
XP gainable in that level ---------- GP gainable in that level according to WBL

What I want to know is: Does that seem fair?

It occurs to me that it might not be fair because while WBL would represent what an above-1st-level character's loot worth was by that level, to get to that level they probably had to buy and use a lot of consumables in their pre-history campaign that wouldn't be reflected in their game-entrance WBL.

That is, if a party of four 1st-level characters reaches level 3 and one of the party has to leave the game, the new incoming player... you'd think... should have the WBL for a 3rd-level character. However, the WBL for this new character would... you'd think... reflect the consumables that character theoretically would have consumed to that point, but it doesn't, so the incoming character theoretically may have more loot on them than the average extant player in the party.

If my hunch is right, and it's not fair, what should I basing the earned GP on? The treasure tables seem extremely out of whack for giving out WBL-appropriate GP each encounter (am I wrong about that?). Should I give some percentage of GP over-and-above the XP-WBL-ratio-calculated GP each encounter to account for consumables? If so, should this percentage be treated as the character's "consumables fund" in some way?

The above also, naturally, doesn't account for XP-expenditures such as crafting or XP-cost spells/powers.

[Fax Celestis]

WBL includes 10% for consumables in its total value (I think; the number could be wrong but I do know it accounts for consumables), so I don't think you need to worry about that.

The treasure tables also assume that a lot of what you give the players is vendor trash: art objects and miscellany that the players could use to furnish a home--if their party ever stuck around in one spot long enough for it to matter.

[Larkas]

Eh, D&D was natively like that in previous editions (actually, it was the other way around: you gained XP based on how much GP you had hoarded). Myself, I think it is a wild-goose chase to try and marry XP and GP exactly without changing what wealth fundamentally means. Why don't you do something like what Legend did and do away with "wealth as means to increase battle prowess" as a whole? That way, your items are quite literally dictated by your experience, without GP as an intermediary.

[Flickerdart]

WBL is not a measure of GP awarded, but wealth that a character has at a given time. Trying to retrofit it to be something it isn't will give you wonky results, like people taking a break from adventuring to abuse the Business rules running around as low level characters with ridiculous amounts of cash and still finding new loot.

[rot42]

Check page 54 of the DMG for the table that includes expected expenditure on consumables. Awarding treasure in this manner should work fine mechanically. I would recommend keeping a running tally of the difference between assumed wealth and actual wealth (if they missed a treasure chest or spent a bunch of time cleaning out a nest of oozes or whatever) and normalize on a per level basis, not a per encounter basis. Personally I only keep track of (valuables looted) / (expected treasure from encounters) and how it compares to XP totals (and hence number and difficulty of encounters until next level).

[Mithril Leaf]

WBL is not a measure of GP awarded, but wealth that a character has at a given time. Trying to retrofit it to be something it isn't will give you wonky results, like people taking a break from adventuring to abuse the Business rules running around as low level characters with ridiculous amounts of cash and still finding new loot.

On the other hand, this does make the artificer nearly useless. Just something to consider.

[Flickerdart]

On the other hand, this does make the artificer nearly useless. Just something to consider.
You get exactly the gear you want, and until the lowered rewards from encounters put you back to normal WBL you're ahead of the power curve. Plus, you know, all of their other class features that aren't crafting.

[Mithril Leaf]

You get exactly the gear you want, and until the lowered rewards from encounters put you back to normal WBL you're ahead of the power curve. Plus, you know, all of their other class features that aren't crafting.

In theory you should get basically the gear you want anyway, especially since you could always just toss away anything you don't want, knowing that something new will pop up to replace it next treasure chest. And they get infusions for other class features. That's really about it though. I'm not saying that your system is badwrongfun or anything, just that it shafts any sort of crafter pretty hard.

[Flickerdart]

In theory you should get basically the gear you want anyway
Not at all. The DM is expected to drop gear that you can use, but if you or a party member are after some specific Chasuble of Groucho Power from the Obscure Compendium, then the DM isn't obligated to leave it lying around, especially if he rolls for loot. If it's in a shop, congrats, you just sold your loot at half price to buy it, so you're now behind in GP compared to people that didn't do that, which means you're weaker until you catch up.

[forsaken1111]

I think he means that if you are normalizing wealth per level based on what the characters own, then its beneficial to throw away undesirable loot rather than sell it for a lesser amount because when the next 'audit' happens you'll be under the wealth curve and get a new loot roll which may be more beneficial.

I hope I explained that right. I'm way under my expected coffee per hour curve.

[Flickerdart]

I think he means that if you are normalizing wealth per level based on what the characters own, then its beneficial to throw away undesirable loot rather than sell it for a lesser amount because when the next 'audit' happens you'll be under the wealth curve and get a new loot roll which may be more beneficial.

I hope I explained that right. I'm way under my expected coffee per hour curve.
The WBL rules are pretty clear that there's no "audit." If you're short your expected cash value, the DM is supposed to gradually catch you up.

[forsaken1111]

The WBL rules are pretty clear that there's no "audit." If you're short your expected cash value, the DM is supposed to gradually catch you up.

How exactly do you propose to 'catch up' your players if you're not auditing their current wealth? You won't know what they have, or how far they're short, so you cannot guess how much to catch them up.

In any case, I'm talking specifically about the proposed system by rot42 to normalize wealth on a per-level basis. This means you'd have to audit the current wealth of all players and alter encounter rewards each level based on their wealth level at the last audit time.

[rot42]

How exactly do you propose to 'catch up' your players if you're not auditing their current wealth? You won't know what they have, or how far they're short, so you cannot guess how much to catch them up.

In any case, I'm talking specifically about the proposed system by rot42 to normalize wealth on a per-level basis. This means you'd have to audit the current wealth of all players and alter encounter rewards each level based on their wealth level at the last audit time.

I think you may be trying to assign me a lot more work here than I actually put in. When the PCs level up, I put a note in my encounter tracker that I should drop roughly 16,000 gp worth of total loot over the course of encounters yielding 4000 XP. After each session, both numbers get updated. If after a few encounters they have racked up 3000 XP but only 8000 gp in treasure, that suggests "elite guards in mithril full plate" as a good encounter to build and to hold off on that "halfling urchins with slings and Snatch Arrows" idea. This is entirely separate from auditing the character sheets (which I also do, but not after every session) and from the less concrete but more important metric "is fun occurring and what can I change to improve it".