Help with build

[evyldead]

Hey all, i'm thinking on building a character i started it and lost my paper on it... well hes a human turned into a vampire and he likes to be in the front of the battle and he rages a lot oh and doesn't use any weapon besides his fists and is considered a large creature

[Urpriest]

Are you looking for help making this character concept effective, or are you looking for advice on how the character probably worked before you lost the sheet?

As-is, you probably don't want to literally be a vampire. There are easier ways to do it depending on what sort of vampire-ish traits you want.

[evyldead]

both-ish i guess you can say but i want his to be a vampire it was his dream and he saught it out to become one and he has

[herrhauptmann]

Make use of shift and punctuation keys please.

Vampire is a terrible race outside Gestalt because it's a LA +8. So you'll be a barbarian 2, in a level 10 game. Have you thought of Half-vampire, LA +2, in Libris Mortis.
If you really want to keep the "He sought out vampirism" then PHB2 has 'rebuild quests' where you change your race/class.

Jotunbrud is a human only feat and gives you most of the benefits of being a large creature, just not weapon size. Or you can choose a race like Halfgiant which grants you Powerful Build but looks mostly human. (Neanderthal might have powerful build too, I'm not sure)

Barbarian Class for raging. There's a few prestige classes that provide rage or alternates, but there's no point in listing them all. Most just provide different kinds of rage like Frenzied Berserker. Others give the same rage, just with different flavor. Like the one in BoED.

Using fists. That's a pain, you want to use unarmed combat which sucks royally in D&D. I'll just tell you to avoid Reaping Mauler. Single classed Monk is also a trap.

[Urpriest]

both-ish i guess you can say but i want his to be a vampire it was his dream and he saught it out to become one and he has

So two different directions here:

Your original character was probably a Human Vampire Barbarian with the Jotunbrud feat and some stuff spent on being good at unarmed combat (at least Improved Unarmed Strike, but there are a lot of resources for making barbarians good at fighting unarmed). That said, this character would suck because they would be a vampire, and thus way lower level than their companions with not enough to show for it. In general D&D isn't like Morrowind, you can't just pick up a template as part of a quest and expect it to be a net gain.

If you want to make your character concept powerful, you will be using other templates and classes to give you vampire-like abilities. As such, we need to know what sorts of vampire-powers you want. Do you need to be undead? To drink blood? Do you need to be able to turn into bats or go into gaseous form or dominate people or create spawn or drain energy with a slam? Do you need to have trouble crossing running water...I could go on. Basically, list the vampire stuff you want, and the stuff you're ok with leaving out.

[evyldead]

So two different directions here:

Your original character was probably a Human Vampire Barbarian with the Jotunbrud feat and some stuff spent on being good at unarmed combat (at least Improved Unarmed Strike, but there are a lot of resources for making barbarians good at fighting unarmed). That said, this character would suck because they would be a vampire, and thus way lower level than their companions with not enough to show for it. In general D&D isn't like Morrowind, you can't just pick up a template as part of a quest and expect it to be a net gain.

If you want to make your character concept powerful, you will be using other templates and classes to give you vampire-like abilities. As such, we need to know what sorts of vampire-powers you want. Do you need to be undead? To drink blood? Do you need to be able to turn into bats or go into gaseous form or dominate people or create spawn or drain energy with a slam? Do you need to have trouble crossing running water...I could go on. Basically, list the vampire stuff you want, and the stuff you're ok with leaving out.



Im okay with the whole vampire weaknesses and strengths and level adjustment the whole over powered feature is not in mind with this toon he can cross running water no energy drain with a slam(but is cool could work it in there if he needs some power lol), does not create spawn besides making more vampires when he feels like it but will never have the time to do so, he can turn into a gaseous form or meld into the earth to protect himself throughout the day from sunlight(if possible), needs to be undead and drinking of the blood. he is super strong only uses his hands for combat or he will pick things up and throw them at you if he is close to dieing would like a weapon to use to heal him when he attacks(im sure i can find something like that if not thats okay), he can take a beating and keep giving his all whenever and were ever he can take on even more powerful foes(not with ease he will need help or it will take him awhile) he is not easily to be killed so killing him natural ways you will actually have to put up a good fight in order to get close to him, he will use surroundings to his advantage like say theres a knocked over tree for example your going to get hit with it why because he can, and he doesnt like being told what or how to do things he will do jobs or missions but cant promise it wont turn out bloody, and he loves to fight, thin i pretty much got him down lol

[Urpriest]

Im okay with the whole vampire weaknesses and strengths and level adjustment the whole over powered feature is not in mind with this toon he can cross running water

Ok, first point: standard vampire weaknesses in D&D include being unable to cross running water. If you want to be able to cross running water, you can't have the normal vampire weaknesses, so you can't use the Vampire template for the character.

As for the level adjustment thing, this isn't an issue of being overpowered, just of being able to fight without being constantly frustrated. A level 10 barbarian has around 100 hit points, an ECL 10 vampire barbarian (so 2 levels of barbarian and LA +8) would have around 20 hit points. Even with damage reduction taken into account, anything you fight in melee would squash you flat. That isn't just weak, it's not fun, and will make you unhappy with your character.


no energy drain with a slam(but is cool could work it in there if he needs some power lol), does not create spawn besides making more vampires when he feels like it but will never have the time to do so

All that I mean by creating spawn is the ability to make vampires. Basically, is it ok if he can't make new vampires at all?


he can turn into a gaseous form or meld into the earth to protect himself throughout the day from sunlight(if possible)

Tricky, but potentially doable. If not we can find some other way of dealing with the situation.

On that note, is it ok if you're not actually weak to sunlight? One of the best ways to do this sort of character will make it so you never have any trouble with sunlight at all, but if that ruins your concept then we need to go further afield.


needs to be undead and drinking of the blood.

Ok, these are the two big things, and they will probably dictate what we're going for here.



he is super strong only uses his hands for combat or he will pick things up and throw them at you if he is close to dieing would like a weapon to use to heal him when he attacks(im sure i can find something like that if not thats okay), he can take a beating and keep giving his all whenever and were ever he can take on even more powerful foes(not with ease he will need help or it will take him awhile) he is not easily to be killed so killing him natural ways you will actually have to put up a good fight in order to get close to him, he will use surroundings to his advantage like say theres a knocked over tree for example your going to get hit with it why because he can, and he doesnt like being told what or how to do things he will do jobs or missions but cant promise it wont turn out bloody, and he loves to fight, thin i pretty much got him down lol

Ok, this stuff isn't hard to include. I will point out that going with the full LA +8 Vampire template is probably the one thing that will definitely not make you able to do this, since if you are missing 8 levels you will be easy to kill and will not be able to take a beating.


First, let's talk about being Undead. The simplest way to be undead is with the Necropolitan template in Libris Mortis. This template costs XP when you first get it, but it doesn't give a level adjustment, so you eventually catch up with your party (and even when you're not caught up you're only a level behind).

Drinking blood is a little harder. If you're willing to get it through an expenditure of gold, the Vampiric Fangs Graft (also Libris Mortis) will graft working fangs into your mouth for 25,000gp, letting you drain blood that way.

If you don't want your blood drinking to be based on an item, you have two main options. First, you can take a single level of the Vampire Savage Progression, published on the WotC site here (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a). That will give you a (comparatively weak) ability to drink blood, along with small resistances to cold and electricity, spider climb, Alertness, and Dodge, and will also give you a penalty to Constitution (doesn't matter if you use Necropolitan to be undead) and enslave you to whoever turned you into a vampire. If you took the second level of that progression you would gain a small bonus to Strength, your blood drain ability would improve, you would get Improved Initiative and Lightning Reflexes, and you would get some small skill bonuses. I wouldn't take more than two levels, and I would only take both if your DM will let you use Level Adjustment Buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) for levels in a Savage Progression, which is a bit controversial.

You could instead use the Half-Vampire template, from Libris Mortis. That would give you the ability to drink blood (and a dependence on drinking blood), plus some increased natural armor, a slam attack, some light damage reduction, fast healing, the same resistances to cold and electricity, boosts to Str, Cha, and Dex, the same skill boosts as the savage progression, and Improved Initiative. Since it's LA +2, you would compare it with taking two levels of the savage progression. It's also a bit less controversial to use level adjustment buyoff with it, if that matters for your DM.

Neither of these options are weak to sunlight. If you really want to be weak to sunlight you'd either need a base race that has problems with sunlight (Drow, or maybe a human subrace like Underfolk in order to keep Jotunbrud), or to take lots more levels in the Savage Progression (at least 5). Similarly, the ability to create other vampires requires either 7 levels in the savage progression, or being a high level cleric (which can accomplish all of the other stuff too, but I'm assuming you want to avoid the whole "casters can do anything" train). So unless those things are really important to you I'd leave them out.

In terms of being a barbarian who fights with his bare hands, read option 3) in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15571117&postcount=13). That should have most of the basics. Since you can only drain the blood of those you grapple, I'd consider a grappling build. The Black Blood Cultist is a good PrC for grappling barbarians. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870826/Black_Blood_Cultist_Handbook:_A_Grapplers_Manual)

[evyldead]

in that case it doesn't have to be a flat out vampire it could be something of what you are saying with the races from libris the vampire savage beast level but only 2 cuz the third level i have to have a coffin which isnt bad but then again it wouldn't go well with the build of being hurt by the sun if i am i cn just meld into the earth and take cover but if im not weak to the sun then i can take it to the third level, on the other hand i can just do half-vampire. but the whole necropolitan and savage vampire is pretty cool i must say but all in all which would be better half vampire gets bonus's and cool race abilities while the necropolitan/savage vampire is and easy way to replicate the half-vampire so im leaning more away from half-vampire and going necropolitan and savage vampire i mean i lose a couple levels in the class but i don't lose anything

[Urpriest]

in that case it doesn't have to be a flat out vampire it could be something of what you are saying with the races from libris the vampire savage beast level but only 2 cuz the third level i have to have a coffin which isnt bad but then again it wouldn't go well with the build of being hurt by the sun if i am i cn just meld into the earth and take cover but if im not weak to the sun then i can take it to the third level, on the other hand i can just do half-vampire. but the whole necropolitan and savage vampire is pretty cool i must say but all in all which would be better half vampire gets bonus's and cool race abilities while the necropolitan/savage vampire is and easy way to replicate the half-vampire so im leaning more away from half-vampire and going necropolitan and savage vampire i mean i lose a couple levels in the class but i don't lose anything

What's your starting level? That could influence the decision.

[evyldead]

What's your starting level? That could influence the decision.

the starting level is 15, and how would i be able to make him 1 size catagory larger then medium?

[herrhauptmann]

Enlarge person/monster. Powerful build.
Jotunbrud for bonuses to your grappling without actually being bigger.

Templates like Halfogre or Halfminotaur.

[Urpriest]

the starting level is 15, and how would i be able to make him 1 size catagory larger then medium?

At level 15, I'd advise doing a Necropolitan Half-Vampire. You've got plenty of room to have bought off all the LA, and Half-Vampire is mostly better than the Savage Progression. About the only cool thing the Savage Progression gives you is Spider Climb, and at this level you should be flying all the time through some means anyway.

Assuming that you started as a Half-Vampire and got the Necropolitan template as soon as possible, it would cost a total of 18,500 XP to buy off all the level adjustment. You should talk to your DM about whether this means you start at 15th level, or start at 13th level with 86,500 XP. If the latter, you'll at least catch up fast, since lower level characters get more XP for higher level challenges.

For being larger, do you want to actually be larger, or be treated as larger for some effects? If the latter, the Jotunbrud feat will let you be treated as Large for grapple checks. There are lots of races that will let you be large or treated as large, but most of them have level adjustments. I'd recommend looking at Person Man's guide on the subject. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777)

[evyldead]

be treated as larger and is there any feats and class's that would be good so far im just thinking on barbarian/monk/black blood cultist

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=649092

thats what i got so far how does it look ?

[herrhauptmann]

Jotunbrud is first level only.
Move it to your Human bonus feat. Fluff-wise, it also changes your 'allowed' height for male and female. Base female is 6ft, base male height is 6'6".

Your attack bonus isn't bad (could be better), but your damage is way low. Your highest damage is 2d6+8 per attack, average of 15. It's not holy/unholy/anarchic/chaotic. There's no special material, and it's all what, slashing? (Except bite, which is usually all 3 types). Does it even count as magic?

A lot of monsters will have DR 10 or 15, or higher at that level. Monsters with DR /magic are typically DR 20 too.

At best, if your grapple checks are high enough (I've no idea on that score), all you'll be doing is removing yourself and an enemy from the fight. Great if you're grappling BBEG caster. Bad if you're grappling a mook.

edit:
Armor.
You've got a +5 breastplate. Knock that down to a +3. All you need for armor crystals is a +3, and if the party cleric will cast GMV regularly (buy him a pearl of power if he balks), you'll only need a +1.
You need soulfire armor (BoED) or some other form of negative energy protection.
Skip the ring of protection. It's a huge waste of money. At high levels, smart players invest in miss chances; particularly when enemies start having +30 attack bonuses.

Here's an old level 16 character of mine. http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=267894 See where I spent my money? Reflex could've been higher of course, but I had a lot of HP.