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View Full Version : Do any ACF's change a tier of a class?



CyberThread
2013-09-04, 12:39 AM
Would you say any ACF's change a tier of a class by as much as .5 or higher?

Gemini476
2013-09-04, 12:49 AM
Wildshaping Ranger, Mystic Ranger, Dungeoncrasher Fighter, Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian, all of the Monk ACFs...

There are a few, yes.

Quorothorn
2013-09-04, 12:49 AM
Sure. Dungeoncrasher and/or Zhentarim for Fighters are oft considered to bring them to Tier 4, and the Wild Shape ACF for Rangers brings them up to T3 potentially.

lsfreak
2013-09-04, 01:43 AM
I don't think Lion Totem barb can hit T3, even with other ACF-stacking. There's a few feats a paladin can take that significantly alter the class chassis to make it noticeably better (sword of the arcane order, battle blessing, and a well-chosen Devotion feat or two).

And there are some that do the opposite, as well. The spontaneous cleric in UA drops it to T2 like the favored soul. The barbarian that loses rage for combat style, or berserker strength, will drop to T5. Battle sorcerer won't drop a tier, but only because the few spells they get can be the nukes that define T2.

ArcturusV
2013-09-04, 01:53 AM
I'd say the Spellless ACFs from Complete Warrior for Rangers and Paladins probably take their classes down a tier. I don't know if that's official, but I imagine a Ranger giving up all spellcasting to get a +4 Str 1/day is probably going to take it out of the tier 4 line up. Same with Paladins.

Diovid
2013-09-04, 02:07 AM
I'd say the Spellless ACFs from Complete Warrior for Rangers and Paladins probably take their classes down a tier. I don't know if that's official, but I imagine a Ranger giving up all spellcasting to get a +4 Str 1/day is probably going to take it out of the tier 4 line up. Same with Paladins.
Indeed. The general consensus seems to be that if you have to take away their spellcasting, look at the Complete Champion variants and not at the Complete Warrior variants.