PDA

View Full Version : [General D20] Does an Illusion grant flanking advantage?



Souhiro
2013-09-04, 11:09 AM
It's exactly what it says on the tin:

Can a spellcaster use an illusion of an armed fighter, to a foe, so said enemy could be flanked by the party's rogue?

Sorry for my awful grammar. Yo hablo español

erikun
2013-09-04, 11:19 AM
Logically, if they believe that the illusion is an opponent seeking to hurt them, they would avoid being hit and thus subject to flanking as normal. I'd give them a saving throw in this case, as they are definitely interacting with the illusion. (Some might have the caster make some roll to enhance believability.)

Of course, d20 System tends to be shy with logical conclusions at times.

johnbragg
2013-09-04, 01:18 PM
It's exactly what it says on the tin:

Can a spellcaster use an illusion of an armed fighter, to a foe, so said enemy could be flanked by the party's rogue?

Sorry for my awful grammar. Yo hablo español

If I were DMing, I would rule "yes", rather than look it up, in the interests of rewarding players for creativity. I would have the Enemy Fighter roll a Will save or Sense Motive check, though, for a mixture of drama and fairness. But if Enemy Fighter believes he's flanked, I say he's flanked.

Your grammar is fine. I would have said

"Can a spellcaster use an illusion of an armed fighter, on a foe, so that said enemy could be flanked by the party's rogue?"

Souhiro
2013-09-04, 05:30 PM
Thank you, both!

The Common Sense say "Yes, of Course!" but sometimes, the rules can be silly.

This is interesting in Pathfinder, with the "Ghost Sound" and the Cantrip rule: You can cast your prepader (or known) Lvl-0 spells as much as you want, thus a low level wizard could use Ghost Sound to distract enemies and grant flanking advantage to the rogue.

In my game, I'll ask the caster to make a Bluff check (With the DC being higher for every time he tries the same trick) but is a houserule...

erikun
2013-09-04, 07:22 PM
You can cast your prepader (or known) Lvl-0 spells as much as you want
The word is "prepared". :smallredface: I think this was just a simple switching of letter, though.

I would not generally allow Ghost Sound to automatically grant flanking bonuses in this manner. (I would not allow Silent Image to work either, unless the battlefield is really noisy.) The reason why is that the opponent needs to think that he's under immediate attack for it to grant flanking bonuses, especially under multiple attacks. Just hearing a sound of someone sneaking up on you wouldn't do it - and again, the lack of sound from Silent Image would hint it off as an illusion unless there was noise to cover it up.

I do agree with you that the spellcaster making a bluff check with Ghost Sound would make sense to make the opponent flat-footed. It is basically using the bluff skill as a feint, just with a magic spell rather than a physical weapon. Makes perfect sense to me.

AttilaTheGeek
2013-09-05, 09:16 AM
In pathfinder, there is a gnome-only metamagic feat called Threatening Illusion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/threatening-illusion-metamagic) that you may be looking for.


A threatening illusion spell causes one target to believe your illusion is a threat. Choose one 5-foot square within the area of your illusion; that square threatens the target as long as it is adjacent. Thus, if you or an ally is on the opposite side of the target, it is considered flanking... If the target has reason to believe there is an invisible creature in the vicinity, even an auditory illusion with no visual elements (such as ghost sound) is sufficient to convince the target that the selected square contains an actual threat... When you threaten a target with this spell, the foe may make a Will save to disbelieve (DC 10 + threatening spell’s level + your spellcasting ability score modifier). If the target makes this save, the threatening effect of this feat no longer applies to it.

Alex12
2013-09-06, 09:23 AM
In D&D 3.5 Tome of Battle, one of the Desert Wind maneuvers makes a small fire elemental that only exists during your turn and never attacks. It's explicitly used to aid flanking- that's pretty much the only point of it.

I'd say a sufficiently detailed illusion would work.

Kaerou
2013-09-07, 11:39 AM
If you were in my game I would personally reward you for creativity for this, and allow it. Though the enemy would get a will save or sense motive check to see through the illusion.