How do we feel about this? [3.PF]

[Hyde]

None of my players are particularly high-op, or really optimized at all.
I'm allowing 3.5 material with approval (and tentatively some 3rd party stuff).

I've got gunslingers ratcheted down to 3/4's BAB.
...I think that's everything.

Anyway. My Barbarian's Player wants to use Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection. I feel the reduction in caster level is essentially a non-penalty, and the feat taxes aren't super bad.

He has Witch Hunter and Superstitious, along with Spell Hunter.

Really it just seems like a lot of dispel, without consuming resources.

Thoughts?

[Hyde]

Also, we've got kind of a soft ban on save vs suck spells- wizards and the like just don't end up as terrifying.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Maybe just throw a lot of non-casters at him? Don't remove mages altogether; he invested a significant amount of resources to be really good versus casters (which is the whole point of the feat chain), so he deserves his chance to shine. But occasionally throwing some enemies at him that don't care about his feats would probably make you feel a little better. :smallwink:

[OldTrees1]

Really it just seems like a lot of dispel, without consuming resources.

Thoughts?

It only dispels spells that give a bonus to AC and does so by doing a standard action attack rather than a full attack that turn. I think it is fine but you know your encounters better.

[Slipperychicken]

It only dispels spells that give a bonus to AC and does so by doing a standard action attack rather than a full attack that turn. I think it is fine but you know your encounters better.

Using that costs him the most valuable resource in the game: actions. Sacrificing that full-attack routine is a huge hit to both damage output and any status effects he might have been trying to inflict. All that to break a spell that gives a bonus to AC, a defense which a Barbarian will have an easy time dealing with? Not going to be worth it most of the time.

[TheIronGolem]

I've got gunslingers ratcheted down to 3/4's BAB.

Why would you do that to the poor Gunslinger? If it's the "guns make touch attacks in the first range increment" thing, I can assure you that's not nearly as scary as it seems on paper. The Gunslinger is only useful in combat, and only moderately then. Reducing its BAB is like halving the rogue's skill points. Probably worse, actually.

[Greenish]

Anyway. My Barbarian's Player wants to use Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection. I feel the reduction in caster level is essentially a non-penalty, and the feat taxes aren't super bad.They're okay feats (though they obviously do nothing vs. non-casters), but not brokenly good. The CL penalty is there just to discourage casters from taking them, it's not supposed to be a balancing factor (as far as I can tell).

[Hyde]

Why would you do that to the poor Gunslinger? If it's the "guns make touch attacks in the first range increment" thing, I can assure you that's not nearly as scary as it seems on paper. The Gunslinger is only useful in combat, and only moderately then. Reducing its BAB is like halving the rogue's skill points. Probably worse, actually.

It's more of a personal nerf than a class one. The gunslinger is one of those things that just plays better out of the box- the choices to make with it are pretty obvious.

Anyway, the long and short of it is that my players don't really build characters that well, and so the gunslinger was edging everyone else out just by existing, and people were complaining about it's output.

We are using advanced firearms, if that matters.

[Dr. Yes]

Advanced firearms make a huge difference for the Gunslinger, for sure. Dual-wielding revolvers is about as nuts as it sounds for DPR.

As far as the barbarian, there's actually a related thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299060) active right now discussing the myriad ways in which such a character can be rendered useless by a clever spellcaster with minimal expenditure of resources. Be nice to your mundanes; the damage thing is basically all they've got.