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Irk
2013-09-04, 06:17 PM
First of all, sorry for posting so soon after another post, I was looking for a response to my poorly worded question on the previous post, and found one, but I can't find how to delete posts, so any assistance in the regard would be appreciated.

Now, the thing about manticore belt is that it WOULD be the perfect attack to apply precision damage to. You can easily get the amount of projectiles shot up really high, and it is only a standard action. However, precision damage can not be applied to such attacks, as an attack which encompasses multiple attacks, such as a full attack, is the only form of attack with multiple attacks within to which precision damage can be applied. In other words, if you are attacking with two ore more attacks in a single action that is not a full round action, you can only apply precision damage to the first.

I have a solution, which makes the attack of manticore belt a full round action, and therefore makes precision damage applicable to each sub-attack.

Now, to begin with, it must be acknowledged that the spines shot by the belt are all part of one attack, as the description says.


Magic of Incarnum

As a standard action, you can snap your tail to loose a volley of spikes equal to the number of points of essentia you invest in your manticore belt. This attack ...

Attack, singular.

Now, the Cragtop Archer can make a single attack with a projectile weapon, (like using the manticore belt), as a full round action, (which increases the range, which is nice, but not as important).

So now, we have a an ability that allows us to launch x projectiles (x = essentia invested), each with precision damage as a full attack. Use the usual essentia boosting tricks, and you can get a lot of spines, each dealing around 14d6 + 1/2 strength bonus

Personally, although not REALLY useful as it removes your move action, I would like to use this in some glass-cannony builds, (some which which have been done, but all ignored the precision damage issue), as it can be achieved at relatively low level with some cleverness.

Perseus
2013-09-04, 06:21 PM
Rule one of WoTC is that don't go by RAW but what works in your group.

Slipperychicken
2013-09-04, 10:37 PM
I'm not seeing how you're getting multiple attacks per round out of this. Cragtop Archer doesn't turn it into a full-attack routine, it just makes a single attack as a full-round action. Also, does the Manticore Belt ability count as a ranged weapon to be compatible with Cragtop Archer?

Malroth
2013-09-05, 12:38 AM
Bard dip for Dragonfire inspiration, doesn't care if its a volley attack or not.

Irk
2013-09-05, 02:02 PM
the manticore belt fires multiple spikes as a single attack, as in the meld description. this single attack firing multiple spines becomes a full round action with crag top archer, and is thus susceptible to precision damage.

Segev
2013-09-05, 03:22 PM
Yeah, but it's one attack, no matter how you slice it. I'm not sure the spines count separately enough even with it being a full attack for each to get precision damage.

Do each get str added?

Piggy Knowles
2013-09-05, 04:13 PM
Yeah, but it's one attack, no matter how you slice it. I'm not sure the spines count separately enough even with it being a full attack for each to get precision damage.

Do each get str added?

Each one gets a separate attack and damage roll, yes. That's what makes me think that it does NOT qualify for the Cragtop Archer ability - even though the description of the soulmeld uses the language "this attack..." doesn't change the fact that you're rolling multiple attacks when you use it.

Irk
2013-09-05, 04:54 PM
yeah, I dunno. It works RAW, but I can totally see where you're coming from.

and yeah, each get str added

also, considering the nature of the belt, it seems like a single attack,as you launch all the spikes with one motion, as does a manticore

Grod_The_Giant
2013-09-05, 05:07 PM
Bard dip for Dragonfire inspiration, doesn't care if its a volley attack or not.
Also, a lot easier to pull off than ranged precision damage tends to be.

Fax Celestis
2013-09-05, 05:10 PM
Now, the Cragtop Archer can make a single attack with a projectile weapon, (like using the manticore belt), as a full round action, (which increases the range, which is nice, but not as important).

No it can't. Manticore Belt isn't a weapon, it just gives you the ability to emit spines as a standard action.

Irk
2013-09-05, 06:28 PM
No it can't. Manticore Belt isn't a weapon, it just gives you the ability to emit spines as a standard action.

Derp. I dunno how I missed that.

Eurus
2013-09-05, 06:36 PM
Manticore belt has several tragic issues. It doesn't count as a weapon, or even as a natural attack, making it difficult to apply bonuses to. It's a volley, so precision damage only applies once, otherwise skirmish would be perfect.

There are a few ways to boost your damage with it, but the vast majority of methods are going to be stopped by one of those things. The best way to deal with it is to houserule it, honestly. Make it apply as either a projectile/thrown weapon, a natural weapon, or some combination thereof.