Hiding Alignment in an Evil society

[Telonius]

I'm trying to figure out some fairly low-level ways of hiding alignment. The premise is that there's a very Lawful Evil, continent-spanning empire. There's an active effort to root out anyone of Good alignment over level 5 or so. The ultimate authorities are fairly powerful (think thousand-year-reign-of-darkness). Their goal (for plot reasons) is to get as many freely-chosen Lawful Evil people as possible. They won't stamp out everybody with a Good alignment (on the premise that having them around is good to breed paranoia among their subjects). There is a small number of these ultimate authorities, and they're content to let their minions handle the day-to-day stuff. Paladins, Clerics, and Favored Souls of good deities are killed on sight.

So, given that, I'm trying to figure out how small pockets of Good resistance could survive. Something like Undetectable Alignment is an option, but it's only one person per casting. Clerics and high-level Paladins are super-rare, and Bards don't have all that many spells to spare (it is only one person per casting). Rings of Mind Shielding would be out of the price range of most of the Resistance, used only for high-profile rebel leaders.

So, short of walking around in lead pajamas all day, what kinds of things could a mid-level (6-10 or so) Good character do to not end up on getting killed?

[Chester]

Perhaps a Ring of False Alignment (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Ring_of_False_Alignment_(3.5e_Equipment)) would help?

I play a Dread Necromancer, it has come in handy at low levels.

[Medic!]

You could get together with the DM and come up with a ritual for hiding alignment. Something like all the good aligned people in these resistance pockets get together once a week for their secret clan meetings and one cleric blesses the communal keg and expends an Undetectable Alignment. Everyone takes a swig with some pomp and ceremony, then at the end of their meeting they pass the collection plate to pay for next week's ritual.


Thinking about it, this would be pretty cool anyway, because then the DM could exert some pressure on the good player by removing or endangering the ritual for some tension and drama. "You now have one week before you show up like a bonfire on the gestapo radar. Cheers. Get crackin!"

[Psyren]

I think there's a psionic feat that helps you hide your alignment in Secrets of Sarlona but I'm AFB.

[Chester]

You could get together with the DM and come up with a ritual for hiding alignment. Something like all the good aligned people in these resistance pockets get together once a week for their secret clan meetings and one cleric blesses the communal keg and expends an Undetectable Alignment. Everyone takes a swig with some pomp and ceremony, then at the end of their meeting they pass the collection plate to pay for next week's ritual.


Thinking about it, this would be pretty cool anyway, because then the DM could exert some pressure on the good player by removing or endangering the ritual for some tension and drama. "You now have one week before you show up like a bonfire on the gestapo radar. Cheers. Get crackin!"

Good idea!

Telonius, what is your class/race/etc? Perhaps putting skill points into disguise could allow you to "blend in".

[Segev]

I could be remembering incorrectly, but I think casting a spell with an alignment descriptor is an act of that alignment. Spellcasters who are not clerics can thus learn at least one [evil] spell that doesn't offend their morals too much and cast it daily in order to stay somewhat neutral.


Disguise and Hide are your best options, honestly, for non-magical approaches. Disguise yourself to look like most of the populace of wherever you are, and use Hide checks to stay out of sight of those who use Detect Good.

Rings of Nondetection would be items this resistance would want to give to as many of its mid-level agents as possible. And clerics SHOULD be casting that spell on themselves daily. If there's a Paladin in the party, sending a cleric out with him specifically to shield him is probably wise. Investing in a few Pearls of Power might be the cheapest way to go about it; Cleric prepares his Nondetection for himself, and the rest of the party uses a Pearl of Power each for him to recover it and cast it on them.

[Telonius]

I'm actually the DM. This is planning for part of an adventure where the characters are going to encounter this society. Right now they're still low-level, but we've got a Cloistered Cleric (not very experienced, and DMM/nightstick shenanigans are not a concern), a Rogue/Beguiler, an Artificer (also not as experienced, so gamebreaking potential is limited), and a Ranger. They'll be coming into it at level 11 or so, so they'll have plenty of resources to handle themselves. I'm just trying to prep it so that the Resistance (i.e. their local helpers) could reasonably be expected to exist, without just handwaving it.

[Psyren]

That ring sounds perfect then. The majority of the resistance keeps out of sight (most alignment detection is visual after all) while their top field operatives get the few rings the resistance possesses for infiltration purposes.

Just before the PCs arrive, you could have one of the insurgents or even a whole squad vanish - now the resistance is extremely paranoid, because anyone new might be the murderers who have their rings to appear good-aligned and infiltrate the hideout.

[Chronos]

This is a lot trickier than the reverse (hiding evil characters in a good society), because good and evil are not symmetrical, and so Evil has some options available here that Good doesn't. Magic can foil magic, but what do you do when the guards capture you and order you to kill or torture a helpless prisoner?

In any event, your best bet is going to be to lay so low that nobody ever even checks you out at all. Which, yes, is going to be tough, but it's really the only thing that stands a chance.

[Psyren]

This is a lot trickier than the reverse (hiding evil characters in a good society), because good and evil are not symmetrical, and so Evil has some options available here that Good doesn't. Magic can foil magic, but what do you do when the guards capture you and order you to kill or torture a helpless prisoner?

Well, it wouldn't be ideal, but the victim themselves might demand that you kill them as a sacrifice to protect your standing for the greater good. Jon Snow has to do this in Game of Thrones for instance.



In any event, your best bet is going to be to lay so low that nobody ever even checks you out at all. Which, yes, is going to be tough, but it's really the only thing that stands a chance.

Agreed - they should be doing their best to avoid detection at all by mundane means.

[John Longarrow]

Telonius,
If the nation is evil, most of their resources for rooting out good would be concentrated in urban areas. Random sweeps of the country side would be conducted, but those could be spotted long before they arrive.

The big issue is defeating divinations. In an evil society all of the senior members will be trying to root out opposition, especially from within their ranks. Being good just means your in another targeted group, not the main enemy the powers that be are watching out for.

I'd work out a way to shield the "Rebel strongholds" and have them scattered around in more remote locations. They help the local rural folks, but are avoiding the major urban areas. Commoners are probably spending too much time worrying about meeting basic needs to be all that evil/good, so the rulers are not so worried about them. This gives the rebels the space they need to do their thing without always looking over their backs.

For interacting with the party, you'll be looking for mid to high level NPCs who represent the "Good" faction. They will have all the stops pulled out to not only defeat alignment detection, but to also fool divinations.

In an evil nation everyone is a potential enemy. The more powerful you are, the more enemies are aware of you. The more enemies aware of you, the more you need to protect yourself. You will spend more time stopping other evil characters from harming you than you would protecting yourself from good characters. After all, there are more evil enemies around you.

If you read much dystopian fiction, you should be able to get a good grasp on just how much time and effort will be spent in keeping the evil population in check and thwarting the plans of other evil leaders.

[Joe the Rat]

So are they Detecting Good, or Detecting Evil and looking for the lack of ping? Because for the former, all you'd need is sympathetic Neutral field agents. They might not have that Greater Good thing going, but that doesn't meant they wouldn't be trustworthy or have other motivations.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by John Longarrow
In an evil nation everyone is a potential enemy. ...You will spend more time stopping other evil characters from harming you than you would protecting yourself from good characters. After all, there are more evil enemies around you.

This is a good point here. Since this empire seems to tolerate a small fraction of good-aligned people anyhow, it makes sense that the evil power-players would be more concerned with other evil power-players, at least on a personal level. Policy is policy, but safety first.

As for avoiding basic divinations--well, enough rock will do that, won't it? Hiding in catacombs is an option for one or more resistance cells; and for more extensive hidden communities, you can include deeper underground complexes, modeled after subterranean cities like that beneath Derinkuyu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derinkuyu_Underground_City).


Originally Posted by Psyren
I think there's a psionic feat that helps you hide your alignment in Secrets of Sarlona but I'm AFB.

Looks like Mind Mask, on p. 117. You register as neutral, and both detect magic and detect psionics just whiff right by you.

[Psyren]

Looks like Mind Mask, on p. 117. You register as neutral, and both detect magic and detect psionics just whiff right by you.

That's the one - it's intended for Kalashtar hiding in Riedra, which is basically Fantasy North Korea.

[Coidzor]

The powers that be don't want an EVIL peasantry. Evil peasants are going to be too preoccupied with doing things to justify being evil to actually feed the country. And while starving your citizenry is pretty evil, it's rather contrary to trying to be a strong Evil Empire of Evil for the Evulz.

So, mostly surrendering the urban centers and controlling the countryside seems right up Le Resistance's alley.

Though, really, the Evil Overlords aren't going to be any more effective than Paladin McOmnicide when it comes to controlling and maintaining order in their undercities when they're relying upon delegation to handle it, so there's ample room for them to thrive, and the black market being largely profit-driven and all, you're likely to see some or most of it change its tenor. And if thieves guilds can survive Paladin McOmnicide you've got room there too.

And even if the Evil Overlords are all wholly committed to stamping out good and would never think to let powerful Good individuals thrive in order to be used as catspaws against their fellows in order to consolidate power to themselves... the other evil bastards who aren't quite at the Overlord level definitely are going to have a couple of people or factions have that idea cross their minds.

[Segev]

And now I'm picturing the Samaritan's Guild. It's like the Assassin's Guild, but filled with good people who are hired to do sneaky good deeds for unsuspecting individuals.

"I need you to repair Widow Matron's front steps before she slips on their crumbling surface and breaks her hip. And no witnesses!"

"The bailiff's son gets extorted out of his lunch money every day. Slip into his school and sneak him a #3 special so he can concentrate on his test tomorrow."

"My brother actually pulled a White Knight for this girl he likes. I need you to plant some evidence that he was actually up to no good before the authorities think it warrants bringing him in for a Detect Good; the kid's been too altruistic and I'm a bit worried how he'd ping."

[Psyren]

And now I'm picturing the Samaritan's Guild. It's like the Assassin's Guild, but filled with good people who are hired to do sneaky good deeds for unsuspecting individuals.

"I need you to repair Widow Matron's front steps before she slips on their crumbling surface and breaks her hip. And no witnesses!"

"The bailiff's son gets extorted out of his lunch money every day. Slip into his school and sneak him a #3 special so he can concentrate on his test tomorrow."

"My brother actually pulled a White Knight for this girl he likes. I need you to plant some evidence that he was actually up to no good before the authorities think it warrants bringing him in for a Detect Good; the kid's been too altruistic and I'm a bit worried how he'd ping."

Screw that. The Good resistance is freeing slaves, assassinating fiends and other irredeemables, desecrating (consecrating?) evil altars, and sabotaging supply lines.

[Blightedmarsh]

You could call your character Stabby McKillface; a lawful good paladin of the absolute murderization of anything and everything evil (namely almost anyone around here). Specialize in contract killings and make a great show of enjoying your work. Devote the blood of your victims to your "unspeakable" deity and tithe your earnings to its "dark" cause.

Wear armor made of skulls and spikes and with enough hits undertaken thrown in with a few shocking acts of random carnage and burnination no one can look at your character and possibly think he is good.

[Segev]

Screw that. The Good resistance is freeing slaves, assassinating fiends and other irredeemables, desecrating (consecrating?) evil altars, and sabotaging supply lines.

Of course they are. I was trying to come up with the "good equivalent" of an Assassin's Guild, not of a Cult Dedicated To What This Land Is Against.

Plus, it's at least half for a laugh.

[Telonius]

You could call your character Stabby McKillface; a lawful good paladin of the absolute murderization of anything and everything evil (namely almost anyone around here). Specialize in contract killings and make a great show of enjoying your work. Devote the blood of your victims to your "unspeakable" deity and tithe your earnings to its "dark" cause.

Wear armor made of skulls and spikes and with enough hits undertaken thrown in with a few shocking acts of random carnage and burnination no one can look at your character and possibly think he is good.

That's actually kind of close to a few of the higher-ups I have planned.
One of them is going to be a Malconvoker. Another one is a Chaotic Good Tiefling who underwent a Ritual of Alignment as a child, and has levels in Fiend of Corruption. As what's technically an Evil Outsider, she qualifies. Special bonus laughs: Mind Shielding is a feature of the Prestige Class. She's currently posing as a Pleasure Devil. :smallamused: General idea is that they're either so "obviously" evil that nobody bothers to check, or are immune to alignment detection for other reasons.

[Coidzor]

You could call your character Stabby McKillface; a lawful good paladin of the absolute murderization of anything and everything evil (namely almost anyone around here). Specialize in contract killings and make a great show of enjoying your work. Devote the blood of your victims to your "unspeakable" deity and tithe your earnings to its "dark" cause.

Wear armor made of skulls and spikes and with enough hits undertaken thrown in with a few shocking acts of random carnage and burnination no one can look at your character and possibly think he is good.

Aren't there objects you can carry which make you ping as evil but don't actually actively try to turn you evil?