Tarquin-Wrong Genre Savvy?

[Yadugara]

I think the lastest strip showed clearly that Tarquin misunderstands his role in the story.He thinks Elan is the hero and he therefore the main villin of the story.He even doesnt even remembers the name of the real,world-threatening Big Bad of the story.

I think he does not only now the role in this story, he assumes even the wrong genre.He thinks it is the typical "Evil Overlord who happens to be the his father is overthrown by the hero"-plot,but he doesnt see that this is only a subplot of the main story which i would roughly describe as "Evil wizard attempts to get world domination" in which Roy is the main character.

I would predict that his genre savvynes which worked good for him until now because the subplot fit into the main story will turn to genre blindness and he will make a critical mistake because of this.

[BaronOfHell]

No need to worry, I am sure the threat V poses to the world will be dealt with properly by Roy.

[Nephrahim]

I suspect this will either be deleted or merged into the "Has Tarquin lost it" thread, which has like twenty topics in it now.

Though the answer is yeah. He is generally genre savvy, but now he's misinterpreted the kind of story the comic is, and it's going to cost him, most likely.

[HobbesB]

Furthermore, I'm not sure even understand the medium he's in. He seems to be under the impression this is an actual DND game, not a webcomic set in a D&D universe. Elan couldn't go and find expies of the old characters, because that would be narratively unsatisfying to the readers, and of course there are no PCs to make those new protagonists.

Likewise, while in a D&D campaign the PCs could want to keep playing their characters and go take care of Tarquin after beating Xykon, in a story that sort of climax ends the work, baring perhaps a montage of the loose ends being tied up. So Tarquin couldn't possibly get his climactic showdown with Elan after the Epic Lich is defeated.

These sort of mistakes can be fatal to a side-villain.

[BaronOfHell]

Furthermore, I'm not sure even understand the medium he's in. He seems to be under the impression this is an actual DND game, not a webcomic set in a D&D universe. Elan couldn't go and find expies of the old characters, because that would be narratively unsatisfying to the readers, and of course there are no PCs to make those new protagonists.

The joke comic where the second Kobold gets offed aside, usually in a movie when a member of the cast leaves, he/she gets replaced. Take e.g. Charmed, it's about three sisters, the power of 3, most powerful witches ever, etc. etc., yet when one of the actors quits the shows, suddenly an unknown, about just as powerful, sister emerges.

[Roland Itiative]

I don't think he meant the "Rob Redblade and Murkon Lightinghammer" thing literally, though Elan definitely would easily find a party to continue the quest against Xykon in any tavern, this kind of thing has been established in the universe already. And of course Tarquin doesn't realise he's on a webcomic, he's genre savvy, but he's not Deadpool. He realises this world follows the rules of drama, but he doesn't expect the "story" to end.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think he does not only now the role in this story, he assumes even the wrong genre.He thinks it is the typical "Evil Overlord who happens to be the his father is overthrown by the hero"-plot,but he doesnt see that this is only a subplot of the main story which i would roughly describe as "Evil wizard attempts to get world domination" in which Roy is the main character.

Those are indeed two different stories, but I would not say that they're two different genres. A genre is really pretty general. Like, "fantasy epic of good vs evil" general. There is no doubt that Tarquin's flaw is that he is monumentally self-centered, but that doesn't change the fact that he is clearly a master of his genre.

[dancrilis]

Oddly enough Tarquin is not wrong.
The Order's plan is - deal with Xykon - return to deal with the Empire.

That makes Tarquin the end boss.

Now I don't think it will go quite like that - but from everything he knows his presence here would be considered foreshadowing to the Order (or reader) that there are other threats that need to be dealt with afterwards - which means by convention that these will be the higher level ones more difficult ones that put the initial quests to the shame of being 'remember going after that Lich, it seemed so difficult at the time, <sigh> those were the days'.

Of course if Roy remembers Xykon's advise - well maybe he will take the time to do an adventure path or two.

[Snails]

Oddly enough Tarquin is not wrong.
The Order's plan is - deal with Xykon - return to deal with the Empire.

That makes Tarquin the end boss.

Right. Nale explicitly told him that he would return at a later time. Tarquin misunderstood the meaning of that information by reading it through his very ego-colored glasses.

Tarquin is imagining that this is the end of the 1st Act in a 3 act classic tentpole plot structure, where narrative sloppiness is probably the fault of Nale screwing up. He simply has no clue that his fate is to be found in an epilogue, if he is lucky.

[Vinsfeld]

i would roughly describe as "Evil wizard attempts to get world domination" in which Roy is the main character.

Sorcerer, actually.

[137beth]

Right. Nale explicitly told him that he would return at a later time. Tarquin misunderstood the meaning of that information by reading it through his very ego-colored glasses.

Tarquin is imagining that this is the end of the 1st Act in a 3 act classic tentpole plot structure, where narrative sloppiness is probably the fault of Nale screwing up. He simply has no clue that his fate is to be found in an epilogue, if he is lucky.
I expect that he will actually be killed some time in book 6...but not in a dramatic or climactic fashion, thus nullifying his plans to become a legend. The most likely scenarios for defeating him IMO are:
a)Xykon kills him. He's the tough looking guy who gets knocked out to show how powerful the real villain is. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html) Any glory as a villain he gains would be instantly transferred to Xykon.
b)Sabine: Sabine contacts the order, and somehow convinces them to let her help in a plan to kill Tarquin as revenge. Elan is involved in some capacity, but Sabine does the killing blow. So Tarquin ends up being killed by a mid-level demon, losing any credibility as a legendary evil overlord.



Sorcerer, actually.
V is not a sorcerer.

[Solse]

V is not a sorcerer.
But Xykon is.

[CletusMusashi]

I've said it before, as a joke, and recent events have only made me believe more in that joke.

Tarquin is the son of a bard. Or at least had a bard around as a very major influence. And was completely baffled as a Lawful Evil child by why someone with so much knowledge did not rule the world.

Tarquin himself wants to be a bard, but somehow other things already got in the way. He has, however, had so many narrative concepts explained to him that he simply knows them.

Haley doesn't need to make a "Knowledge (Sylphs)" roll to tell you that Sylphs don't generally know that humans can't shoot electricity. because she has not only learned that fact, but had entire conversations about it. Tarquin has spent his life doing many things, one of which was learning a hell of a lot of what bards know.

One reason his interpretation of things is off is that his questions and answers are different from Elan's. Bards are pretty used to being side characters. Telling the story afterwards is more bardly than actually making a story. But since Tarquin's goals are inherantly unbardly... the techniques of information processing that he has drawn from bards are simply not going to work the same way for him.

Often, they might not even work at all. Elan is a bard, and if I recall correctly he may have made a few somewhat flawed conclusions himself.

[Amphiox]

But Xykon is.

Zyklon, on the other hand, is a molecule.

(Or a Norwegian Death Metal Band).

[Vinsfeld]

Zyklon, on the other hand, is a molecule.

(Or a Norwegian Death Metal Band).

Maybe both? Kinda seems like some kind of medicine too.

"Apply Zyklon on the area."

[hoff]

He is not the wrong genre savvy, the genre is correct (epic medieval fantasy based on d&d rules and cosmos). He is wrong about being the main villain to Elans history. Any decision he makes pertaining that is going to bite him in the ass.

[Scow2]

Maybe both? Kinda seems like some kind of medicine too.

"Apply Zyklon on the area."...yeah, Xykon manages to achieve what historical use of Zyklon did when used in the manner prescribed.

[The Oni]

If Xykon's name was actually Zyklon, he'd be substantially scarier. Also probably a Nazi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B

[Bulldog Psion]

If Xykon's name was actually Zyklon, he'd be substantially scarier. Also probably a Nazi.



I don't know, dude is pretty frickin' scary already.

[Verditude]

I think Tarquin has, broadly, the right genre, but he is wrong about certain characters' places in the story. If Roy is just a poser keeping Elan back, the army of mooks might be able to take him down, but if he's the hero of the story, the very rules of dramatic order that Tarquin upholds mandate that the army be unsuccessful in taking Roy out. Assuming Tarquin is actually trying to kill Roy and is not sending his men into the crater to die for some other reason, he is wrong about who Roy is and will fail based on that misinterpretation of roles.

[Niknokitueu]

Furthermore, I'm not sure even understand the medium he's in. He seems to be under the impression this is an actual DND game, not a webcomic set in a D&D universe. Elan couldn't go and find expies of the old characters, because that would be narratively unsatisfying to the readers, and of course there are no PCs to make those new protagonists.
Given that there are many in-comic meta-references to D&D game mechanics (eg hexes, CR level, Feats, spell slots, etc), Tarquin's assertion that Elan would find appropriate-level replacement characters is justified.
(Admittedly, in all campaigns I have played, replacement PCs start at level 1 and have to be baby-sat until they level enough to hold their own in a fight, but that is just the way we play it.)

Likewise, while in a D&D campaign the PCs could want to keep playing their characters and go take care of Tarquin after beating Xykon, in a story that sort of climax ends the work, baring perhaps a montage of the loose ends being tied up. So Tarquin couldn't possibly get his climactic showdown with Elan after the Epic Lich is defeated.
Agreed here. To his mind, he is the final boss and Xykon is therefore a side quest to gain XP.
In reality Xykon is the final boss, and deferring beating Tarquin makes him a note in the epilogue, not the final boss.
It is all in the way you percieve it. His view is wrong, but has justification.

These sort of mistakes can be fatal to a side-villain.
Agreed. And here's to hoping that they are fatal to this particular side-villain.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[Sungrass]

I think Tarquin has, broadly, the right genre, but he is wrong about certain characters' places in the story. If Roy is just a poser keeping Elan back, the army of mooks might be able to take him down, but if he's the hero of the story, the very rules of dramatic order that Tarquin upholds mandate that the army be unsuccessful in taking Roy out. Assuming Tarquin is actually trying to kill Roy and is not sending his men into the crater to die for some other reason, he is wrong about who Roy is and will fail based on that misinterpretation of roles.
He's probably trying to build dramatic tension before he goes down and challenges Roy himself.

[EnragedFilia]

If Xykon's name was actually Zyklon, he'd be substantially scarier. Also probably a Nazi.[/url]

Alternatively, he could be the self-insertion character in a really bad and unoriginal Battlestar Galactica fanfic or in an even worse Battlefield Earth fanfic.

[Klear]

I just had an idea:

What Tarquin is trying to do - kill the rest of the party, makes complete sense. As far as the villains go, Xykon is Roy's, Elan's villain is Tarquin.

If Tarquin did manage to kill the rest of the Order here and the leadership fell to Elan and Haley, he would get instantly promoted to the main villain status. Of course, he doesn't know he isn't the main villain yet, and that's his downfall - rules of drama say that Roy will survive because he has to have his confrontation with Xykon, but if he did succeed in killing off the rest of the order, his view of the situation would suddenly become real.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Oddly enough Tarquin is not wrong.
The Order's plan is - deal with Xykon - return to deal with the Empire.

That makes Tarquin the end boss.

Now I don't think it will go quite like that ...

I see it more like Lord of the Rings (The book, not the film). The end boss was Sauron, but the story didn't end there. After Sauron's defeat there was the scouring of the Shire - or, put another way, the tidying up.


Alternatively, he could be the self-insertion character in a really bad and unoriginal Battlestar Galactica fanfic or in an even worse Battlefield Earth fanfic.

You mean there's fanfic of Battlefield Earth? That's worse than Battlefield Earth? The first of these is scary enough...

[Yendor]

I see it more like Lord of the Rings (The book, not the film). The end boss was Sauron, but the story didn't end there. After Sauron's defeat there was the scouring of the Shire - or, put another way, the tidying up.
And that was Saruman, who was a pathetic remnant of his former self. Done in not by the heroes, but by his own maltreated lackey.

[EnragedFilia]

You mean there's fanfic of Battlefield Earth? That's worse than Battlefield Earth? The first of these is scary enough...

I wouldn't know, of course, having neither read nor seen it, but I can only imagine that someone tried to give it the My Immortal treatment at some point. Needless to say, I would recommend against trying to research this possibility for the sake of everyone's sanity.

[tomaO2]

Okay, lets deal with all this talk on "who the REAL main villain is" for this story. Most people say Xyklon but is that right?

He's not the one that wants to destroy the world, he just wants to conquer it, he's not even remotely interested in unmaking everyone, especially when that includes himself. This is a pretty standard practice, actually. Tarquin is rather unique in that he only wants to take over the desert. Which is another reason why Tarquin can dismiss Xyklon as just another villain. Oh hum, another plan to take over the world that will end in failure just like every other attempt.

To give a parallel, look at the Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. Every season was a new person that was going to destroy the world. The final villain didn't even show up until the last season. Plenty of other series have this happen too. Tarquin has good reason to believe what he does, and keep in mind that he thinks he is specifically Elan's final boss. There is no reason why this can't be correct. The OOTS world will continue long after the Snarl has been dealt with and when Rich stops publishing books about it. Why wouldn't Tarquin become the final boss for Elan, just like Xyklon is Roy's?

In fact, Xyklon even suggested to Roy that he wait a few years and then finish up their plot later on, just like Tarquin told Elan. I think that is an interesting parallel. Seems Xyklon has a similar sense of hubris. Talking about how great villains need good heroes and letting the Monster talk him into not killing the "B" heroes, while keeping an eye out for the more dramatically appropriate opponent instead.

I'd like to note that no one suggests that Xyklon should end up suffering an insulting death despite having just as big an ego and being just as horrible a person as Tarquin. The only real problem with Tarquin's thinking here is that he doesn't understand the narrative that makes it that Roy is the one that must kill Xyklon. I bet if it was explained to him properly, he might back off.

There is a very good chance that the real end boss could be Redcloak or the Snarl or even the Goblin God himself. For all we know, when Xyklon finds out what is going on, he may actually ally with Roy to stop the world from being destroyed. We just don't know and being so definite that we do falls into the exact same hubris that everyone derides Tarquin for falling under.

[Domino Quartz]

<snip>...Most people say Xyklon...<snip>
Actually, most people say Xykon (note the lack of an "L").:smallwink:

[Manga Shoggoth]

And that was Saruman, who was a pathetic remnant of his former self. Done in not by the heroes, but by his own maltreated lackey.

Oh yes! In fact, I can quite see Kilkil murdering Tarquin with his quill after one unreasonable request too many. Could even get in a quip about the "quill is mightier than the sword" as well.

[Jay R]

I think Tarquin has, broadly, the right genre, but he is wrong about certain characters' places in the story.

He's usually in the right genre, but has just left it.

Normally, he's processing it like a story. But his current assumptions (2-4 replacements just happen to show up in a tavern) is based on a game, with players.

And for the first time, he is clearly wrong. Roy already died, and Rob Redblade didn't appear in the next tavern. They went on without Roy until he came back 200 or so strips later.

[Connington]

Fictional characters get replaced by identical strangers fairly frequently too. When Babylon 5 lost its warhero Commander with the initials JS and a romance plot with the Minbari ambassador, it soon got another war hero with the intials JS who fell in love with the Minbari ambassador. When Bo and Luke Duke left Hazzzard County, their cousins with similar personalities and the same hair colors came to visit.