That's it, Tarquin is dead, because...

[Roland Itiative]

... he got Xykon's name wrong. And with a Z, to add insult to injury.

[TRH]

Yeah, no one dares misspell the name of Xyklon the Consequential! Guards!

[lio45]

Tarquin calling Xykon a sub-boss and getting his name wrong is just reinforcing my belief that the narratively fitting way for Tarquin to meet his demise is at Xykon's hands, relatively effortlessly on Xykon's part.

The stage was already set for that IMO, and it's getting even more set now.

[BRC]

My guess on what's going to happen with Tarquin.

Elan/Haley is going to turn Tarquin's allies against him.

Consider, Tarquin's friends have no idea what's going on. They're going along with it because why not.

But, what is happening here is Tarquin allowing his ego to put the world in danger.

Consider this: Elan goes up to the Psion, she reads his mind and learns about what a threat Xykon really is.

"Tarquin! Call off the troops!"
"No"
And then Tarquin gets a high-tier psionic power right in his tier 3 face.

[homeosapiens]

Tarquin calling Xykon a sub-boss and getting his name wrong is just reinforcing my belief that the narratively fitting way for Tarquin to meet his demise is at Xykon's hands, relatively effortlessly on Xykon's part.

The stage was already set for that IMO, and it's getting even more set now.


That is only if Xykon is scrying on this. Im 100% sure Xykon would go and snuff T if he heard whan he said. Also im not sure it would be easy - there is an army there 3 of (what i personally think low epic) characters from team Tarquin, and Laurin might summon the rest in seconds.

That would be kind of cool if Xykon teleported back and said something like "subplot villian, yup, you are" and killed Tarquin not even bothering to kill his friends, and go back.

[lio45]

That is only if Xykon is scrying on this.

No, I didn't mean that Xykon would be actually aware that Tarquin ever got his name wrong, just that, from a storytelling point of view, the more Tarquin denigrates the real BBEG, the more fitting it is for Tarquin to meet his end as a roadbump for said BBEG.

[Roland Itiative]

Maybe Xykon has one of those Taboo spells from Harry Potter in effect, only his version triggers at wrong mentions of his name :smalltongue:

[Forikroder]

That is only if Xykon is scrying on this. Im 100% sure Xykon would go and snuff T if he heard whan he said. Also im not sure it would be easy - there is an army there 3 of (what i personally think low epic) characters from team Tarquin, and Laurin might summon the rest in seconds.

That would be kind of cool if Xykon teleported back and said something like "subplot villian, yup, you are" and killed Tarquin not even bothering to kill his friends, and go back.

Xykon wasnt willing to waste the 3 rounds itd take to snuff the heros he knows are actively working against him

why would he waste time teleporting back because someone said his name wrong?

actually why is he even wasting time scrying this?

[Macros]

For a long time, I really thought that was what would happen : Tarquin getting stomped by Xykon would have totally invalidated his "dream ending" to become a legend defeated in an epic duel against his son.

Not any more, I think.

First, there is the fact that Xykon already came and went on his merry way. Ok, it would be funny if he simply teleported back here all "I just wanted to screw with Redcloak, but all in all, I really want to kill something. Hey, an army ! That will do." I find this scenario a tad unlikely, however.

Secondly, I can't help but think that Tarquin went too far. Given the recent updates, he can't just be disposed off-handedly by sheer coincidence by an ever bigger villain. Ironically, by trying to enforce his distorted world-view on the story, I think now he HAS to be defeated by the heroes, or at the very least by someone involved in this arc (Sabine ?). It probably will happen in a surprising manner, and much sooner than what he would like, but he actually managed to make almost certain that Elan will be the one to defeat him (or be instrumental in said defeat).

Plus, we still don't know what is Elan's secret plan.

PS : note that I think I'd like to be proven wrong here. Because Tarquin being stomped upon by Team Evil would be hilarious. In a certain sadistic way. :smalltongue:

[Roland Itiative]

Xykon wasnt willing to waste the 3 rounds itd take to snuff the heros he knows are actively working against him

why would he waste time teleporting back because someone said his name wrong?
Because that's exactly the sort of thing Xykon does. He once before noticed a guy was saying his name with a Z instead of an X, and was pissed about it, after all :smalltongue:

Now, I'm not actually saying he'll show up and kill Tarquin (I made the thread as a joke), but if he heard what Tarquin just said about him, he would certainly do that.

[Bulldog Psion]

PS : note that I think I'd like to be proven wrong here. Because Tarquin being stomped upon by Team Evil would be hilarious. In a certain sadistic way. :smalltongue:

Agreed on all counts. :smallamused:

Especially if accompanied by some classic Xykon snark.

"Hey, it's one of those B-list villains who likes to go all sanctimonious about how good and evil are just matters of perspective. Well, my perspective, sucker, is that I'm evil as all hell, and I just love roasting self-important little twerps like you!" *Meteor swarm*

[DiamondHooHaMan]

Maybe Xykon has one of those Taboo spells from Harry Potter in effect, only his version triggers at wrong mentions of his name :smalltongue:

that idea is petty, sociopathic, completly rediculous and the kind of thing only a true narcisist would consider.

it's perfection. i adore this idea.

[Tiiba]

Zyklon kills Tarkin, Bluepommel kills Zyklon.

[Porthos]

"Hey, it's one of those B-list villains who likes to go all sanctimonious about how good and evil are just matters of perspective. Well, my perspective, sucker, is that I'm evil as all hell, and I just love roasting self-important little twerps like you!" *Meteor swarm*

If I sigged people, I'd sig this line. Just so you know. :smallwink:

[veti]

Have we properly considered the idea...

... that maybe Tarquin is the main villain, and Xykon just a sub-boss?

OK, we're all invested in the whole Xykon/Redcloak team, we all want to see X get his comeuppance, Roy vindicated and Eugene humbled.

But isn't it a common pattern, to set up a baddie in the early stages who later turns out to be just cover for the real villain who is only unmasked mid-story? I'm sure there's a trope for that, I'd link to it if I hadn't come to hate TVTropes...

And I for one have always felt that Elan is the central character of the story, Roy is just there to give him direction.

Narratively speaking - I know, I'm starting to sound like Tarquin - in a story about a six-character D&D party, what better boss-villain than another six-character D&D party?

I'm not saying I believe any of this. But I also can't come up with any good reasons to discard it completely.

[Porthos]

But I also can't come up with any good reasons to discard it completely.

Word of Giant? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15962127&postcount=460) (slight Haleo & Julelan spoilers)

OK, it's not complete confirmation, as there is still wiggle room, but I think the sign posts are pointing in a pretty clear direction.

[Irenaeus]

I'm never able to follow the plot of this strip. I didn't even know the Order was going after Xyklon the Consequential.

[Paisley]

Have we properly considered the idea...

... that maybe Tarquin is the main villain, and Xykon just a sub-boss?

OK, we're all invested in the whole Xykon/Redcloak team, we all want to see X get his comeuppance, Roy vindicated and Eugene humbled.

But isn't it a common pattern, to set up a baddie in the early stages who later turns out to be just cover for the real villain who is only unmasked mid-story? I'm sure there's a trope for that, I'd link to it if I hadn't come to hate TVTropes...

And I for one have always felt that Elan is the central character of the story, Roy is just there to give him direction.

Narratively speaking - I know, I'm starting to sound like Tarquin - in a story about a six-character D&D party, what better boss-villain than another six-character D&D party?

I'm not saying I believe any of this. But I also can't come up with any good reasons to discard it completely.

Well, if we're going to be narratively speaking...

As all stories, this one is driven by conflict—in this case, the major one being the race for the gates. This is the overarching Quest; the entire story revolves around this Quest; the entire story would not exist were it not for the Quest. Or at least, not how we know it.

Tarquin has absolutely no interest in the Quest.

Going by conventional storytelling structure, it's more than enough indication that he is not the main villain, since he's effectively removed himself from the main conflict.

Anyway, I agree with the OP. Tarquin's a dead man walking.

[colanderman]

That is only if Xykon is scrying on this. Im 100% sure Xykon would go and snuff T if he heard whan he said. Also im not sure it would be easy - there is an army there 3 of (what i personally think low epic) characters from team Tarquin, and Laurin might summon the rest in seconds.

That would be kind of cool if Xykon teleported back and said something like "subplot villian, yup, you are" and killed Tarquin not even bothering to kill his friends, and go back.

No scrying necessary. There's someone who:

* witnessed the "sub-boss" slight,
* worked for Xykon, and
* has no greater desire than to see Tarquin dead:


:sabine: *plane shift* Hey, Xykon, remember me? I used to work for you.
:xykon: Who the hell are you?
:sabine: *sigh* I'm a being of pure evil and I want a job.
:xykon: Hey, we're always hiring! Especially since that chick with the pigtails disappeared. What kind of salary are you looking for?
:sabine: None. I just want your help to brutally murder and possibly torture someone.
:xykon: Is he a paladin?
:sabine: No, he's the high general of…
:xykon: Sorry, not interested!
:sabine: He called you a B-plot villain. Look, I have a video here on my hell-phone.
:xykon: … you're hired.

[Roland Itiative]

Have we properly considered the idea...

... that maybe Tarquin is the main villain, and Xykon just a sub-boss?

OK, we're all invested in the whole Xykon/Redcloak team, we all want to see X get his comeuppance, Roy vindicated and Eugene humbled.

But isn't it a common pattern, to set up a baddie in the early stages who later turns out to be just cover for the real villain who is only unmasked mid-story? I'm sure there's a trope for that, I'd link to it if I hadn't come to hate TVTropes...

And I for one have always felt that Elan is the central character of the story, Roy is just there to give him direction.

Narratively speaking - I know, I'm starting to sound like Tarquin - in a story about a six-character D&D party, what better boss-villain than another six-character D&D party?

I'm not saying I believe any of this. But I also can't come up with any good reasons to discard it completely.
If such a late-arriving villain would be introduced, it would be much earlier. We're already in the second half of the story, any hugely important character was probably already introduced. When Shojo first appeared, ordering Miko in an ominous way, that would have been the moment to introduce a "Bigger Bad" to upstage Xykon.

Furthermore, even when a late villain is introduced, they're usually related to the same quest the heroes are going through. So The Dark One could become the ultimate villain, or the Snarl, or Serini-gone-evil, or something else entirely, as long as it's related to the Gate quest. Tarquin, even if he forces himself into this storyline, isn't really an integral part of it.

An example, and the villain who names the trope, would be Ganon in Zelda games. He often upstages a minor villain who serves as Link's main motivation, but his plot is never completely separate, he simply uses the lesser villains to do his bidding while he is imprisoned/sitting on his thumbs.

[slayerx]

Tarquin calling Xykon a sub-boss and getting his name wrong is just reinforcing my belief that the narratively fitting way for Tarquin to meet his demise is at Xykon's hands, relatively effortlessly on Xykon's part.

The stage was already set for that IMO, and it's getting even more set now.

Actually the stage isn't really set because their is narratively no reason for Tarquin to go up against Xykon. First Xykon already came and went, he has no reason to return to the western continent; this means the only way for them to meet is if Tarquin went to the last gate... however Tarquin as he pointed out, is genre savy enough to know that when two villians fight its a toss up; even though he sees himself as the "main villain" and Xykon a "sub-boss" he still seems to recognize that there is an actual possibility of him loosing if they encounter and thus will avoid the encounter; instead he'll send a "hero" instead.

[darlingt]

So I don't know what it means in terms of foreshadowing/plot relevance (because I suck at seeing that stuff), but... Zyklon (Tarquin's misspelling of Xykon) is the trade name of a former pesticide. Is that what Tarquin thinks of Xykon -- that he's there to weed out the pests in Elan's party? It's also the chemical used in the Nazi gas chambers... Coincidence? Probably. But an interesting one.

[Connington]

While I agree that there would be a certain sweetness in having Tarquin killed off by the REAL main villain, I honestly think that Elan is more likely to do the deed. After all, he made a secret plan off-screen and everything.

[Flame of Anor]

Coincidence? Probably. But an interesting one.

I think the Giant actually said it was a coincidence somewhere.

[allenw]

So I don't know what it means in terms of foreshadowing/plot relevance (because I suck at seeing that stuff), but... Zyklon (Tarquin's misspelling of Xykon) is the trade name of a former pesticide. Is that what Tarquin thinks of Xykon -- that he's there to weed out the pests in Elan's party? It's also the chemical used in the Nazi gas chambers... Coincidence? Probably. But an interesting one.


So, Xykon might actually take it as a complement. :smalleek:

[Scow2]

No scrying necessary. There's someone who:

* witnessed the "sub-boss" slight,
* worked for Xykon, and
* has no greater desire than to see Tarquin dead:


:sabine: *plane shift* Hey, Xykon, remember me? I used to work for you.
:xykon: Who the hell are you?
:sabine: *sigh* I'm a being of pure evil and I want a job.
:xykon: Hey, we're always hiring! Especially since that chick with the pigtails disappeared. What kind of salary are you looking for?
:sabine: None. I just want your help to brutally murder and possibly torture someone.
:xykon: Is he a paladin?
:sabine: No, he's the high general of…
:xykon: Sorry, not interested!
:sabine: He called you a B-plot villain. Look, I have a video here on my hell-phone.
:xykon: … you're hired.
How did Sabine witness the "Sub-boss slight?" She broke the TV they were watching on when Nale was killed.

[halfeye]

Well, if we're going to be narratively speaking...

As all stories, this one is driven by conflict—in this case, the major one being the race for the gates. This is the overarching Quest; the entire story revolves around this Quest; the entire story would not exist were it not for the Quest. Or at least, not how we know it.

Tarquin has absolutely no interest in the Quest.

Going by conventional storytelling structure, it's more than enough indication that he is not the main villain, since he's effectively removed himself from the main conflict.

Anyway, I agree with the OP. Tarquin's a dead man walking.
That's all very well, but if the OotS leave him alive, Tarquin would have a rift, an epic arcane spellcaster, and a need to get hold of an epic cleric because he's just lost one, so he could build a gate, which would make the gate Xykon is at the last but one.

However, I agree his time is now.

[Trillium]

That's all very well, but if the OotS leave him alive, Tarquin would have a rift, an epic arcane spellcaster, and a need to get hold of an epic cleric because he's just lost one, so he could build a gate, which would make the gate Xykon is at the last but one.

However, I agree his time is now.

He also needs the technology that Dorukan and Lyrian used to make their rifts. Those two spent a great deal of time investigating the rifts and developing the technology behind gates. Doubt Tarquin's epic mooks could just re-invent it on spot.

[colanderman]

How did Sabine witness the "Sub-boss slight?" She broke the TV they were watching on when Nale was killed.

Good point.

[Roland Itiative]

How did Sabine witness the "Sub-boss slight?" She broke the TV they were watching on when Nale was killed.

Maybe she'll watch a rerun? :smalltongue:

[mhsmith]

It's kind of interesting, and ironic, that narratively Tarquin seems to be in a boatload of trouble, since he's clearly a side quest villain for this story even if he wants to be / thinks he is #1.

OTOH, based on the fundamentals, he rules a really big empire, has a big army (even if they do seem like easily slaughtered mooks) and is the leader of a party that is higher or much ligher level than the protagonists (and right now it's 3v5, possibly to become 3v6 if V returns, but Tarquin alone already handled 1v5 pretty well when OOTS wasn't already beat up).

So either narrative tropes win, and Tarquin bites the bullet (which reinforces his belief in the primacy of narratives), or they DON'T win, and he remains an at large threat (which keeps him in a good position but argues against the primacy of narratives). Interesting, no?