Ability Score Items and different slots

[20yrslater]

One of my players wants to buy a +2 Armband of Intellect, which of course doesn't exist.

She says that all +2 items cost 4000gp, so why cant she just get that.

I told her that if that was allowed, you could stack the same ability on all slots and it would unbalance the game/character.

I can't find any books that state she is right.


Thoughts?

[Giarc]

Last I checked, enhancement bonuses don't stack.

[Psyren]

That would be a custom item, with the 50% markup for being a "specific body slot" bonus, so it would cost 6000gp and require your approval. And there wouldn't necessarily be any to buy in the world, but she could make one.

EDIT: And yes, if she already has a headband of intellect, there is no point in making an "armband of intellect" since it won't stack.

[Glimbur]

You could add the +50% cost increase for not matching the affinity, as described here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinities).

You could offer the rule from MiC that lets you stack on common bonuses (+stats and a few other things) to an existing item without a surcharge; just add the costs together. That would help if she had, for example, a Helm of Brilliance and that is why she wanted armbands of +int. (Ignore for the moment how terrible the Helm of Brilliance is)

You could just let them be 4000 gp, I find that the limitations on what magic item goes where are not terribly relevant.

[20yrslater]

I totally blanked out and forgot about affinity and the stacking no-no's of bonus types.

I can accept the rules of affinity for sure. 50% markup is fine with me. Now they just need 6000gp, hah!

[Psyren]

Actually, rereading it, it looks like it would cost double, or 8000.


+50% base for not matching the affinity (wrist instead of head)
+50% base for adding to an item that occupies a specific slot

[molten_dragon]

One of my players wants to buy a +2 Armband of Intellect, which of course doesn't exist.

She says that all +2 items cost 4000gp, so why cant she just get that.

I told her that if that was allowed, you could stack the same ability on all slots and it would unbalance the game/character.

I can't find any books that state she is right.


Thoughts?

Technically the rules state that it would cost 50% more. I've always found this rule to be kind of stupid though myself. Players have a limited number of item slots anyway, and you can't stack bonuses of the same kind, so as long as the item uses up a slot, I charge the same price for it as a normal item of that kind.

[AmberVael]

You could just let them be 4000 gp, I find that the limitations on what magic item goes where are not terribly relevant.

This. Body affinities are largely pointless, and the Common Item Effects rules from the MIC were written for a reason.

Problems with stacking are handled by different bonus types, and having too many powers is handled by having a finite amount of wealth. Don't bother marking stuff up for being in a weird slot or even being added to an existing item. It's really not worth it.

[Azoth]

For those preaching the markup, I point you to the Belt of Magnificence. I grants a bonus to all 6 stats at no notable price increase for putting 5 of those bonuses in unassociated slots.

Since it is a common bonus type listed in the MiC I say let the player have it for normal retail price. Maybe make the player work a bit to get it, as it is an odd request, but don't charge more for it.

[Psyren]

The Common Bonus Types in MiC is for the matching slot though. Meaning it is for her to add it to another headband/helmet, as Glimbur suggested. If she wants to put it on an Armband she will still pay the markup.

[AmberVael]

The Common Bonus Types in MiC is for the matching slot though. Meaning it is for her to add it to another headband/helmet, as Glimbur suggested. If she wants to put it on an Armband she will still pay the markup.

Yeah, but why? What's the point?

There's no appreciable difference between getting +2 int from an item on your arm slot or +2 int from an item on your head slot. And with common item effects rules, it doesn't even really take up a slot- it doesn't actually restrict you from getting a head item. So it doesn't change anything at all to put it on your arm.

By the rules, yes, that's how it goes. I wouldn't disagree. But these rules are dumb in the same way as the multiclassing penalty: they don't do anything useful, and in fact just get in the way. Best to ignore them.

[Psyren]

*shrug*

OP is the DM and clearly he thinks the 4000 is a bit too cheap. I see no reason to divert from the rules for this myself, but it's not a big deal either way.

[Chronos]

Quoth Psyren:

Actually, rereading it, it looks like it would cost double, or 8000.

+50% base for not matching the affinity (wrist instead of head)
+50% base for adding to an item that occupies a specific slot

The second +50% would only apply if you're adding it to a magical armband that already has some other ability. If it's just an Armband of Intellect and nothing else, then it'd only be +50%, not +100%.

And there's almost no mechanical difference what slot a bonus is in, but it does make a roleplaying difference. It makes intuitive sense that it's easier for an object to affect your brains if it's attached to your brains. It also, apparently, makes a difference to this particular player, for some reason I admit I can't fathom. Does she have some justification for why an armband that makes you smarter makes sense? Or even, why it would make more sense than a headband?

Wait, I think I might have it. She might be thinking of an arm-mounted computer, like the Pip-Boy from Fallout. In that case, I'd say that it depends on the sort of campaign world we're dealing with, here. If it's the sort of world where something like that would fit in, let her have it for 4000. Otherwise, it's probably going to cost extra, and she's going to need to find someone to custom-make it.

[Psyren]

The second +50% would only apply if you're adding it to a magical armband that already has some other ability. If it's just an Armband of Intellect and nothing else, then it'd only be +50%, not +100%.

Ah, good call. So yeah, it would only apply if she's adding it to Bracers of Armor or something.

[AmberVael]

And there's almost no mechanical difference what slot a bonus is in, but it does make a roleplaying difference. It makes intuitive sense that it's easier for an object to affect your brains if it's attached to your brains.

This is generally true, but I don't see much gain in giving it a mechanical incentive, especially when there can be reasonable exceptions... or even just stuff that would already be fine that the rules have missed.

Here's a fun one for you: You can get Charisma from a shoulder item, or from a head item, but not from a face item or a throat item. The throat being associated with speech makes a lot of sense for Charisma, and the face... it's the face! A mask has every reason to give a charisma bonus.

As for an armband of intellect, how about an heirloom torc (or well, one of those armbands styled as a torc) passed down by the loremasters of some tribe, imbued with that ancestral knowledge? A torc would be a very appropriate item of status, hence tied to their role, and would therefore make a lot of sense.

[HunterOfJello]

Themes and concepts in D&D cannot be solely judged by their rules in the most current form. You have to look further back into previous editions and rulesets to understand where the logic and reasoning for ideas actually come from.


The idea that different types of ability bonuses can come from multiple slots is most likely a concession made to players so that they wouldn't be forced to lose one specific slot if they wanted to wear that item. Otherwise, playing a wizard would mean that you can never wear any head item other than Headband of Intellect unless you want to gimp your character. The idea that you can have multiple effects on a single custom item is also a change to previous rules. Getting the picture now?

~~~~

Intellect can go on a Head of Face slot. If the player uses the MiC rules, they can add that 4000gp cost onto any other item that takes up that slots to add the +2 Intelligence enhancement bonus on to there.

It is also worth nothing that this is strictly an enhancement bonus and that enhancement bonuses do not stack. So, no matter how many items you wear with a +2 enhancement bonus to Int, you still only get a +2. If you wear a +4 and a +2, then you only gain the benefit of the higher version (the +4). These are core rules and very important.

The DMG allows options for putting item bonuses in other slots for an extra cost, although the MiC slightly disagrees with this.



Table 6–11: Adding/Improving Common Item Effects presents
a list of common item effects, from ability score enhancement
bonuses to energy resistance, and the price to add that effect to
an item.
The table also indicates the appropriate body slot (or slots) for
each effect. For example, you can add an enhancement bonus to
Charisma only to an item that occupies the head or shoulders body
slot (such as a headband or cloak). A DM can choose to deviate
from this guideline, but should avoid nonsensical combinations
(such as gloves that provide a bonus to Wisdom).

(emphasis added)


~

The basic idea is that some areas can allow you to gain a bonus while others simply cannot. Your 'common sense' might dictate that this is silly to you, but then again none of use are vancian wizard so we really aren't experts on this topic at all, are we?

DMs can override this, but the rules already allow overwhelmingly leeway for players to put bonuses on to 2 or 3 slots per bonus and allow you to attach those bonuses onto other magical items. There are plenty of areas in the game with rules that are unnecessarily restrictive, but this is definitely not one of them.