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TylerHyperFace
2013-09-05, 05:49 PM
"Let's admire me for a bit"

Yes, oh yes.. For those who clicked on the title because you recognized it, this is 100% serious, and a legit thread seeking advice on building the one, the only, the "Glorious Executioner", Draven!

It started with me wanting to get back into table-top D&D with some friends: Ever since I started playing back 5 years ago, I've expressed my love for dragons through the characters I played. But right from the start, I always had an itch to play a ranged-melee character: Fighter-Archers were the closest thing I could think of trying, but something was missing.. The character was missing that "Prepare to die // All out aggression" that I wanted to badly in a ranged-fighter. Granted, I never REALLY explored deeply into the possibilities, but a few weeks ago, I found my answer..

Online gaming (or "esports") is a pretty big deal to me: Starcraft was a heavy game that I still to this day play, but recently I've been ranking up in League of Legends, the game I'm sure anyone from casual to hardcore PC-gamer has heard of. If you're one of the people who follow/play the game at least casually, you're exactly who I need to make this character happen:

Draven, the egotistical, extremely aggressive and "high-risk, high-reward" playable character in the game is exactly what I need to break away from my "dragon-only" characters, and to also combine two passions together. For those who aren't avid League players, but who are still willing to give your expertise, here is a link describing the character's mechanics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5zyGj4Z0Sg
Keep in mind that only the first 2-minutes are vital to his character: The rest is all in-game strategy and analysis.

I am seriously willing to work with any input and suggestions in to how I make this character-class (levels 1-20 if possible) happen; I already have a few ideas on paper, which could easily be posted and shared.

If you've read all the way up until here, you're awesome, and I thank you greatly for giving this your attention and time!

"WELCOME TO THE LEAGUE OF DRAVEN!"

Hiro Protagonest
2013-09-05, 05:56 PM
It already exists, and it's called Bloodstorm Blade.

Vadskye
2013-09-05, 08:28 PM
Jade Dragon's got it, I think. 90% of remaking existing characters in D&D is just the fluff. Bloodstorm Blade is perfect for the mechanics.

Just to Browse
2013-09-05, 10:04 PM
:smallconfused: bloodstorm blade only has ricocheting weapons. It doesn't have a speed boost, any kind of crowd control, and no big AoE ranged attacks. It also runs off the iron heart discipline which isn't draven-y at all.

The Glorious Executioner should probably be a rogue class some special consideration that allows you to make close-range sneak attacks even if noticed. The bloodstorm blade is a great place to start, of course.

Morph Bark
2013-09-06, 04:53 AM
:smallconfused: bloodstorm blade only has ricocheting weapons. It doesn't have a speed boost, any kind of crowd control, and no big AoE ranged attacks. It also runs off the iron heart discipline which isn't draven-y at all.

What, you mean you can't take a base class and other PrCs to supplement it?

Fact is, with everything you can get in DnD over the course of 20 levels, you get more than just five abilities, and with the amount of classes, there's tons of ways to fill that out.


I suggest you do take a look at Bloodstorm Blade for inspiration on how to do that particular ability of Draven's for your class, as Spinning Axe is what I'd say is his primary and most marking ability about him.

Just to Browse
2013-09-06, 01:14 PM
What, you mean you can't take a base class and other PrCs to supplement it?

Only if you're willing to wait till level ~11, and sacrifice your ulti, and be really weak because you had to jump through a bunch of PrC prereq hoops.

TylerHyperFace
2013-09-06, 04:38 PM
I checked out the Bloodstorm Blade, and although yes, there is much resonance in terms of ricocheting-weapons and a strong BaB, I still feel like there could be more.

I could be entirely wrong, but I get the feeling that Just To Browse has the most LoL experience, or at least the most feed into Draven thus far. What I'm interested in is more specifics, rather than a "class build idea" which is what the Bloodstorm Blade is.

Here are some very rough, basic files I originally sent my DM inspired by the creation of the class. As you will see, it's not specific-numbers, but rather a general, rough feel of what the character would obtain as a whole, and problems I'd like to answer in order to make "Draven" work:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r145/NeonTora/DampDraven-PAge1_zpsbaf9c1ae.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r145/NeonTora/DampDraven-PAge2_zpsec6f9c05.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r145/NeonTora/DampDraven-PAge3_zps8b4e7c51.jpg

Having shown that..

I still want to figure out technical details and number-crunching.. What base damage would my thrown axes/blades do? Would I get a buff after catching them post-ricochet? If I did, how drastically would the damage be? What should my base-health be like?
Do I want to run to squares to catch the axes, increasing risk of Attacks of Opportunity, or let them bounce to me, and make a roll to catch? How "high-risk" enough should I be to enable the damage I want/Draven does?

At what levels through my character-progression should I learn abilities, if not having started with them? Is a 1d4 bleed effect too much? Or should it be enabled on-hit at all? Should I receive a buff upon dealing the final blow to an enemy? How much of a steroid will the buff be? Should it be dependent on enemy-difficulty, as to avoid becoming OP off of minion/lesser "executions"?

The only REAL ability I have set in my mind is his "ultimate", Whirling-Death, which would probably work as shown in the 3rd image. Once I establish the kind of damage I'm working with (as basic axe-attacks, with or without buffs) the group and I could probably agree on numbers it'd do/saves to be made/etc.

Again, I really appreciate all the input thus far! From everyone! I understand there exists a class that happens to have similarities, but I want a class tailored more specifically to the character I'd like to play. Yes, I'm sure tweaking could make the class more unique, but I think I had a pretty good outline prior to even knowing about this class existing :smallbiggrin:

Some numbers / level-ability-suggestions would be awesome to see next, but small-steps at a time, I suppose! Cheers!

Hiro Protagonest
2013-09-07, 02:16 PM
and no big AoE ranged attacks.

...We're talking about the same class, right?

Siosilvar
2013-09-07, 04:14 PM
Considering how easy it is to catch Draven's axes as a practiced player, it's not that Bloodstorm Blade is just similar to Draven's play, it's that it's nearly identical.

His old bleed passive is the 8th level ability of Bloodstorm Blade.
High damage axes is covered by Thunderous Throw (2nd level) + Power Attack. They return to him at 4th level.

Attack speed boost on activating W can be modeled with Rapid Shot or applying Weapon Aptitude to Lightning Maces (which also has crit synergy, along the lines of the old bleed passive - though probably requires a permissive DM).

There's no direct equivalent to Stand Aside, but there are ways to make ranged Trip attempts which would have a similar effect. Bolas and/or 1 level of Master Thrower (CWar p58) are the most direct way of going about this.

The ult is a refluffed Blood Wind Ricochet (5th level) or Blade Storm (10th level) fairly simply.

This is of course the path of least resistance and doesn't come fully online until around 14th level (Warblade 5 / Master Thrower 1 / Bloodstorm Blade 8), but it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to design and balance a full homebrew class, and gets all of his gameplay translated. If you're dead-set on the homebrew, keep in mind that there's a lot of work ahead of you.

Just to Browse
2013-09-07, 05:35 PM
...We're talking about the same class, right?

The one that requires attack rolls to hit AoE, right? Yeah that one.

Hiro Protagonest
2013-09-07, 05:37 PM
The one that requires attack rolls to hit AoE, right? Yeah that one.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Is requiring a saving throw somehow more like LoL?

Just to Browse
2013-09-07, 10:26 PM
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Is requiring a saving throw somehow more like LoL?

Have you looked at the ability? First, you're rolling seperately instead of making one roll and comparing against AC, which lends very heavily to "lots of attacks instead of one big weapon". Secondly, the flavor very specifically says you're using one blade bouncing back and forth and not blades going forward in a line. Thirdly, the AoE is within your attack range (a circle) and not in a huge line in front of you.

The only actual similarity is that you're bouncing weapons.

Vadskye
2013-09-08, 12:21 AM
If you need every ability to precisely match Draven's abilities in the League of Legends game, your only option is to write a new "Draven" class. That's totally unneessary. What people usually look for is thematic equivalence. Don't try to represent Draven's exact abilities as represented in the LoL video game; that's just one representation of Draven, the character in the LoL mythos. So is this refluffed Bloodstorm Blade.

Think of it like James Bond. You're looking the new Bond and saying that he isn't really James Bond because he doesn't have a sexy Scottish accent. We're saying that you should focus on all of the other things that make him James Bond - working with M, being 007, having a license to kill, and so on. That's more important anyway.

Just to Browse
2013-09-08, 02:36 AM
You're taking it way to far to either extreme. One end is writing the Draven class (possible, lots of work). The other end is taking a weak class with little relation to Draven and re-fluff it (lots of dissonance, little work).

But there is a middle-ground, and that middle-ground is "generate a build path that's true to Draven and doesn't require you to be level 13 before you're remotely similar". Fer god's sake you need to be level 9 before you can even make a full attack with your axes, and every level in bloodstorm blade is a level of lost maneuvers... and that's terrible.

EDIT: OK, enough talking, I'll start outlining ideas:
Dual-throwing axes is probably best modeled as TWF with thrown weapons (I think this is a thing).
Draven's whole schtick is "big risk, big reward", so I think the best way to encourage his ultra-damage is to build him hella squishy but get big damage when he's near opponents and they can charge him. The rogue, with a different sneak attack mechanic, feels best for this.
Bloodstorm Blade is a very weak and non-draveny class. It would be OK if it advanced your initiation, or granted related class features at relevant levels (like thrown full attacks at BAB +6 instead of BAB +9), but it does not. In the hopes of preserving the class, we should just buff it, drop its entry level, turn interesting ideas into feats, or just take 1-2 levels and ignore the rest.
Draven's attack/move speed abilities could be modeled as one of those barbarian ACFs (whirling frenzy?), a minor haste effect, or like Siosilvar said a lightning maces-style ability, though crits doesn't seem to be his thing anymore.
Stand Aside seems like a ranged bullrush attempt and/or a ranged hamstring attack, which is another reason I really want to see this as a rogue class.
Whirling Death is the really hard one. I don't know how to make this unique without just making it obviously a Draven thing (which feels bad, because maybe other classes want to take it!). I feel like the best way to represent this (and this also combines with Stand Aside) is to make it a Tactical Feat, which can be extra strong.
You get your ulti in LoL at level 6, so I feel like this build should come to fruition around level 6.
All the feats I've been listing make this thing sound super feat-starved, so I want to address that with fighter levels. Of course this means the guy lets heavy armor, which we don't want, so I kinda want to add another fighter ACF.
Draven's passive doesn't feel like it belongs in the game, especially since it encourages bag-of-rats tactics and discourages rushing in on major enemies.

Material:

Classes
Wildcat
Class: Fighter
Level: 1
Replaces: The wildcat is not proficient with medium or heavy armor, or with tower shields. His hit die decreases a die step (from d10 to d8).
Benefit: The wildcat gains a good reflex save (at the same progression as his fortitude save)
The wildcat adds 2 skill points per level (4x as much at level 1) and adds balance, hide, move silently, and tumble to his skill list.


Glorious Executioner
Prereqs: 2d6 SA, BAB +5 or more, 8 ranks in some gladiator skill
d6
BAB: full
Saves: Good ref (maybe fort?)
4 + Int skills, good Cha synergy?
1. Spinning Axe -- Apply sneak attack on thrown weapons within 30' or 1st range increment (max 1/lvl)
2. Performance bonuses -- using dex or str instead, +10' throwing range
3. +1d6 SA
4. +10' throwing range
5. +2d6 SA


Feats
Errata: Hamstring and Arterial Strike are Ambush feats.

Ricochet
Prerequisites: BAB +1, proficiency with a non-improvised thrown weapon
Benefit: On any turn in which you take a move action, you can hurl your weapon at a foe and command it to ricochet back to you. Any weapon you throw behaves as though it has the returning special ability (DMG 225), except that it returns to the square you're standing in at the end of your turn (instead of the square you were standing in when you made the attack roll). You may not use this ability unless you have moved as part of a move action this turn.

Blood Rush
Prerequisites: Ricochet, Dexterity 13, Base Attack Bonus +2
Benefit: Any movement except for a 5-foot step allows you to use the effect of the Ricochet feat.
Special: Without this feat, you can only use the effect of the Ricochet feat if you move as part of a move action.

Whirling Death
Prerequisites: Ricochet, Throw Anything, Blood Rush, Dexterity 15, Sneak Attack +2d6, Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefit: The whirling death feat allows 3 tactical maneuvers:
If you sneak attack, get long AoE throw range (weapons return)
If you sneak attack, ricochet as a swift action
Use ambush feats at range with any weapon you can throw (within 1st range increment)

Build Path
Go human. Minimum Dexterity 15, then prioritize Con and Wis so you don't get squished.
[Wildcat 1] H: Point-blank Shot, 1: Precise Shot, W: Ricochet
[Wct 1 / Rogue 1]
[Wct 1 / Rog 2] 3: Throw Anything
[Wct 1 / Rog 3]
[Wct 1 / Rog 4]
[Wct 1 / Rog 4 / Glorious Executioner 1] 6: Blood Rush
[Wct 2 / Rog 4 / GEx 1] W: Whirling Death

That's level 7. You get 5+Int skills at max rank (1 needs to be that gladiator skill), and 16 extra skill points. HP is 25 + 7*Con HP, saves should be Ref +5, Fort +4, Will +2. IMO the best option is finishing GEx because it gives you extra range so you don't get squished, but then rogue can give you more SA, or barb ACFs can get you +Dex rages, and if you want to sandbag then Wildcat can keep giving you fighter bonuses.

Morph Bark
2013-09-08, 03:22 AM
But there is a middle-ground, and that middle-ground is "generate a build path that's true to Draven and doesn't require you to be level 13 before you're remotely similar". Fer god's sake you need to be level 9 before you can even make a full attack with your axes, and every level in bloodstorm blade is a level of lost maneuvers... and that's terrible.

I don't see how losing the ability to do lots of awesome stuff is terrible when apparently you only need to be capable of four things to emulate Draven.

Keep in mind that there is a lot you can do with official sources (especially if you refluff, such as that bouncing weapon ability of the Bloodstorm Blade), but still a whole lot of things you can't.

Just to Browse
2013-09-08, 03:43 AM
I'm not sure what that means. You're not losing awesome stuff, you're just not getting anything interesting or useful. The bloodstorm blade is a weak class with basically no draven mechanics or flavor. You would do better as a hulking hurler with returning weapons and Throw Anything. Then at least you'd be incentivized to get up in faces and you could deal decent damage.

I think you're singing the praises of official source material without really looking at it. 90% of WotC prestige classes are terribad, and Bloodstorm Blade is no exception.

Morph Bark
2013-09-08, 07:39 AM
I think you're singing the praises of official source material without really looking at it.

Interesting turn of phrase, thanks for the laugh. I'm as pro-homebrew as one can be; I just think that with official stuff there's still a lot you can do.

If you think you need Hulking Hurler to deal even "decent" damage though, it sounds like DnD is not your thing, or at least not the non-magical part of it.

The Dragon
2013-09-08, 08:57 AM
I'll just remark that it is usually a terrible idea to try to convert vidiogame mechanics to dnd.

Feel of a character is a better thing to shot for. Were I to create Garen in D&D, for example, I'd think about what defines him first. In my mind, that's his incredible toughness, his speed, and his ability to damage multiple foes, including the ability to take wounded ones down quickly.

Now, I'd say he's a warblade with a greatsword. He uses a few tiger claw things for movement, leap attack on his charges, and iron heart for his finishing move.
Finally, a smattering of various manueovers keep his defences up. That gives pretty much the exact feel of Garen, without creating such wonky things as a silence mechanic, a spin to win ability, and a recharge rate for his abilities.

In the same vein, Draven should be represented by things that capture the feel of his character, not the precise mechanics. Because you're playing d&d. League of Legends mechanics weren't created to be played in d&d.

TylerHyperFace
2013-09-08, 11:44 AM
I cannot complain about the amount of people who've been giving input: It's absolutely awesome to see all the suggestions and responses people have had!
Thank you! Really!

I'm thinking about the "re-fluff" of the Bloodstorm Blade that alot are encouraging, though again, there are some key things missing.. And it's not that I want an OP character, but I feel if I can dish out huge amounts of damage while constantly having a "don't lose your axes/blades, or else you're f*cked" in the back of my mind every turn. :smallwink:

To me, even the title "Glorious Executioner" isn't apparent in the Bloodstorm Blade class (which is a prestige class, is it not? The whole idea was to have a class that starts me off with a weak-Draven, not something I'd have to build into..): I like the idea of integrating a reward-buff upon killing things. Obviously, I can't be granted gold which is what is done in-game. It'd make his character have the attributed-traits of an executioner, wanting to be the one responsible for the finishing blow of any enemy: To have incentive to want that last hit more than just average.

I don't mind the work of completely starting from scratch; Mechanics may or may not be borrowed from the BloodStorm Blade, but alot of the class-features really are off-track from what I want. The immediate contrast I get when looking at the Prestige Class is "multiple AoE attacks, and swift", where-as Draven is really just "incredibly huge damage output on a single target".

Just To Browse, your sample has made you an MVP, as ideally I wanted examples of progression when first making the thread! I do thank everyone's input, but the layout was something great to look at visually!

Like I stated earlier, I think the real motive of the character is "high-risk, high-reward", something that I don't feel has efficiently been addressed, instead having an existing prestige-class brought up more than necessary.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r145/NeonTora/Draven_concept_3_zpsdad5c982.jpg

Just to Browse
2013-09-08, 12:10 PM
Interesting turn of phrase, thanks for the laugh. I'm as pro-homebrew as one can be; I just think that with official stuff there's still a lot you can do.

If you think you need Hulking Hurler to deal even "decent" damage though, it sounds like DnD is not your thing, or at least not the non-magical part of it.

Morph I really don't know what to say. You appear to be passive-aggressively dancing around the topic, actively trying to not add anything constructive while cherrypicking phrases to take out of context and attack.

I'm going to say this one more time:
The bloodstorm blade cannot deal damage reflecting Draven's characteristics for its level.
The bloodstorm blade's only Draven-esque class feature is returning weapons, which can be broken down into a feat or 1-level dip.
The bloodstorm blade requires stacking Iron Heart maneuvers, which does not reflect Draven.
The bloodstorm blade can only catch weapons by expending Iron Heart maneuvers, meaning you cannot actually catch axes after round 2 if attacking as much as possible (as draven would).

Xerlith
2013-09-08, 01:02 PM
There is no compulsion to take all the 10 levels of the class.
You may as well take a level or two in the Bloodstorm Blade and then go to any other class that feels right.
Take a look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247792) for a LoL-themed homebrew.
It can be done this way. But I think Draven is really simple to be built without using homebrew. Of course, it won't be the exact skillset, but something very similar.

Hiro Protagonest
2013-09-08, 04:47 PM
I think you're singing the praises of official source material without really looking at it.
Eh? I love homebrew. The only thing that could ever draw me back in to playing 3.5 is if someone decided to run a game using the setting in my sig, with all its rules. When someone asks for help with a mental-based martial character, my first instinct is to link them to this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10640962&postcount=6).

90% of WotC prestige classes are terribad, and Bloodstorm Blade is no exception.

There are a lot of bad PrCs, but Bloodstorm Blade ain't one.

Forrestfire
2013-09-08, 05:22 PM
Since TylerHyperFace said he wants something very different, I'm going to just spoil my comments on Bloodstorm Blade:



The bloodstorm blade cannot deal damage reflecting Draven's characteristics for its level.

I'm confused. The bloodstorm blade has a high capacity for damage, at least as much as any non-ubercharger fighty build does. Hell, because you get to treat them as melee, you can do just as much as any other melee fighter barring shock trooper/leap attack shenanigans.


The bloodstorm blade's only Draven-esque class feature is returning weapons, which can be broken down into a feat or 1-level dip.

Let's go down the list:

Returning Attacks: One of Draven's defining characteristics.
Throw Anything: Matters less if you're using thrown weapons anyway, but lets you just use melee axes as weapons if you want.
Martial Throw: Lets you use Iron Heart stuff on ranged attacks. If you're a dex-based thrower, this is useful, however, in a strength-focused build, it's rendered superfluous by...
Thunderous Throw: This ability lets you treat all your throws as melee attacks, letting you initiate whatever maneuvers you want with them. Get some Tiger Claw for perfect dual-wielding or other stuff for damage or cc or whatever. The point is that it lets you do whatever you could with throws that you could do with melee.
Lightning Ricochet: Once you hit 4th level, you no longer need to burn maneuvers to keep returning; they just come back to you and you can catch them as a free action.
Blood Wind Ricochet: Ohey, you now have an AoE ability other than your maneuvers. Who'd have thought?
Eye of the Storm: Your fighting style becomes a fluid monstrosity of throwing axes at enemies, and then hitting the people who dived at you with them as well.
Blood Rain: It's Draven's old passive. Not much else to say there.
Blade Storm: Yet another way to hit things in a large area of effect.



The bloodstorm blade requires stacking Iron Heart maneuvers, which does not reflect Draven.

Level 1 Iron Heart: Stuff that makes you hit harder at the expense of defenses, one to attack multiple things at once.
Level 2 Iron Heart: Be skilled enough to knock someone's weapon away with your weapon, and to parry someone's attack with your weapon.
Level 3 Iron Heart: Speed boost, debuff, and quicksilver sash.
Level 4 Iron Heart: If you miss, get a retry because you attack that fast, and an AoE move.
Level 5 Iron Heart: Extra reach (that doesn't matter for ranged), a daze attack (red buff), and quicksilver sash.
Level 6 Iron Heart: Heal a bit (lifesteal) and deflect an attack.
Level 7 Iron Heart: An execute move and one that lets you get more attacks.
Level 8 Iron Heart: Two AoE moves, one in a circle and one in a straight line that hits everything in its path (sound familiar?) and some damage reduction (because ADCs build armor later on)
Level 9 Iron Heart: Tons of Damage

So a good amount of stuff Draven already does, a good amount of stuff that him being able to do makes sense when you look at the background, and one or two things that don't fit, so you don't take them.

Not only that, but because of Thunderous Throw, you can use whatever maneuvers you want anyway.


The bloodstorm blade can only catch weapons by expending Iron Heart maneuvers, meaning you cannot actually catch axes after round 2 if attacking as much as possible (as draven would).

See Lighting Ricochet, described above and gained at Bloodstorm Blade 4.

Just to Browse
2013-09-09, 03:25 AM
I'm confused. The bloodstorm blade has a high capacity for damage, at least as much as any non-ubercharger fighty build does. Hell, because you get to treat them as melee, you can do just as much as any other melee fighter barring shock trooper/leap attack shenanigans.It does not get two-for-one power attack, or big damage dice, or any damage additives outside weak Iron Heart abilities (I say weak because you don't get any more after taking BBlade, which means you don't have level-appropriate abilities). You can't even full attack until level 9.

Returning Attacks: Requires Iron Heart maneuvers, as acknowledged, so you're dealing less damage and acting less effective than you were a level before in exchange for attacking from 10 feet away.

Throw Anything: Woo 10 foot range!

Martial Throw: Mostly superfluous I agree.

Thunderous Throw: It's level 7 and now you're slightly more effective than you were 2 levels ago, except not on par with a warblade 7 because you have no maneuvers!

Lightning Ricochet: Finally you can full attack like draven, and it's only three levels late!

Blood Wind Ricochet: Read the ability. It's literally "make a full attack against enemies in your area", which isn't actually different from making a full attack. But now you're finally almost as good as any other hurler because now your weapons will return wherever you move (instead of forcing you to stand still)

Eye of the Storm: No, you don't hit people who dive you, you just hit people who make AoOs based on your ranged attacks, so now you can attack people at range while threatened, which is actually kind of nice. The +4 dodge bonus to AC is very good, but this is level 12 and people have so much more to-hit than your AC that it comes off feeling flat.

Blood Rain: I can certainly say something: This is 3 points of damage. At minimum entry level, your weakest opponents have 85 hit points (the roper). It's entirely likely that Blood Rain will never be of notice in a fight at this level, and it's basically guaranteed past level 15.

Blade Storm: Finally an real AoE damage! Though it would be great if you didn't take ridiculous penalties to-hit because your range is still 10 feet.


Level 1 Iron Heart: Stuff that makes you hit harder at the expense of defenses, one to attack multiple things at once.
Level 2 Iron Heart: Be skilled enough to knock someone's weapon away with your weapon, and to parry someone's attack with your weapon.
Level 3 Iron Heart: Speed boost, debuff, and quicksilver sash.Halt right there, traveler. Iron Heart stuff would be nice and all, but you don't get that as Bloodstorm Blade. Even if you aren't paying the ridiculous maneuver tax for your basic abilities, you still don't get maneuvers. If you so chose to go back into warblade at level 15 after finally getting an actual AoE attack, you would find yourself picking up level 5 maneuvers, and never exceeding level 7 (once you've hit level 20, which is unlikely anyways).

So 1 Draven thing, a lot of weak damage and ridiculous nerfing, and some interesting and cool things that aren't related to Draven but are still cool.


Not only that, but because of Thunderous Throw, you can use whatever maneuvers you want anyway.Only strikes, and no changing stances. This isn't nearly as glorious as it looks.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-09-09, 04:39 AM
Putting aside the Bloodstorm Blade option (there are pros and cons to that, but it's clearly not something you want, so we'll table that discussion for another day), trying to build Draven as a base class is a violation of several fundamental design decisions in D&D. I could go into detail as to why this is if you're interested, but I feel I'd do better to get to the crux of the issue: Draven's abilities will not support a base class, and the end result will be hideously underpowered and/or far removed from Draven. The simplistic nature of his abilities and the immensely tight focus of the concept are not suited to the class framework: they are barely enough to make more than a 5 level Prestige Class.

So what could you do if you absolutely must have your homebrew Draven abilities?

The answer is simple: feats or martial maneuvers.

Both of these can come online as early as level 1. Draven could easily be built as a Rogue with a selection of homebrew feats, or as a Swordsage or Warblade with a few custom maneuvers based around throwing axes.

Ultimately, however, I don't thing 3.5 is the best system for Draven. I would (oddly) recommend that 4e might suit him better: the simpler class structure, lower ability count, and general structure of characters powers seems like it would fit the League style of gameplay better, even potentially allowing Summoner Spells as Utility powers.

If, however, you have your heart set on 3.5, a custom school of Martial Maneuvers would be my first choice, perhaps combined with a Rogue-like chassis (like the Swordsage, perhaps tweaked a bit). You'd end up with a character who can be a fast melee character (which Draven can definitely be...he just chooses to show off a lot), but who has an entire assortment of level-appropriate ranged axe-tossing tricks pulled from the custom maneuver set. I think it's the most elegant way to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish.

Hadrian_Emrys
2013-09-09, 06:21 AM
I'm not sure if this is up your alley, or not, but I've been chipping away at just this very homebrew myself. That said, I'll post my rough draft for you as soon as I clean it up. Feel free to use, or cannibalize, as you see fit once it's up.