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Omnicrat
2013-09-05, 07:19 PM
So, a friend is trying to get a game of the Erfworld-themed strategy game going, but there are a few problems. For one thing he's having some trouble finding a DM, but much more importantly, the rules he was planing to use are unfinished. VERY unfinished. We need to work on these rules to get them playable, and where better to work on rules for a new system than here! The magic system is definitely what needs the most work, but almost everything can use fleshing out.

Alright, here are the goals of this project

Finish Unfinished Rules
Clarify rules so that intimate familiarity with Erfworld is not necessary for comprehension
Create rules for things like stack bonuses, magic items, and the like


As far as I can tell, the only big hurtles we have left are balance issues, combat (being worked on by gem as we speak) and I can't remember what else right this moment, but something.

The Current Rules: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G_eJOqUUaK-N1sd25JYMnweuHy2ET5w6CCqFl-EPABU/edit?pli=1#

Durmatagno
2013-09-05, 07:20 PM
I'd be that friend, we think part of the reason so many people are turned off to running is due to the unfinished rules. So here we are, to make our own version.

Omnicrat
2013-09-05, 07:23 PM
More know than think, really. There is one person who might when its finished, but he won't right now because he can't understand how this system is supposed to work.

Arkhaic
2013-09-05, 10:19 PM
It actually reads a lot more like a sourcebook than the rules for the game. I feel like I'm reading Eberron without the DMG. It lists all this stuff about how to create units, etc. but fails to talk about how movement works, what dice are used for combat, etc.

Omnicrat
2013-09-06, 01:15 AM
Alright, here are some clarifications.


Garrisoned Units can't move outside of the city they were popped in.

Move is how many hexes a unit can move in one turn, and units can move around in the hex they occupy an unlimited amount of time, even off turn.

At the end of turn, all unused move is lost and move is set to 0.

Captured units who escape take their move on the turn of the side that captured them, but move before any of that side's units have a chance to move.

Units cannot fight between hexes.


Below are rules I suggest


Combat is rolled, both attack and defense. It is either 1dX + bonus or X + (1dX - X/2) + bonus, X being the attack or defense stat.

Units can screen other units from ranged attack during combat. This provides a chance to intercept hits that would otherwise strike the unit being screened. This roll is effected by a units maximum move, whether they are heavy or not, and whether or not they have the fly special, and weather or not they are veiled.

Arkhaic
2013-09-06, 01:37 AM
I've been compiling a list of links to explicitly stated rules as I read through erfworld, I'll post a link to it tomorrow.

Durmatagno
2013-09-06, 08:11 AM
I've been compiling a list of links to explicitly stated rules as I read through erfworld, I'll post a link to it tomorrow.

Problem with linking all the stated rules in the comic is that some of them are extensions of unknown rules.

As for combat

1d10+X+Bonus (X being the applicable stat)

Arkhaic
2013-09-06, 08:59 AM
...
...
Yeah...
You mean rules like movement?

Durmatagno
2013-09-06, 09:28 AM
...
...
Yeah...
You mean rules like movement?

Movement is from hex to hex

Plains (light green)
No movement penalty

Light Forest (green)
1.5 move/hex
+1 defense
Scouts have line of sight in adjacent hexes

Heavy Forest (dark green)
2 move/hex
+2 defense

Swamp (blue green)
2 move/hex, 1.5 move if water capable
+1 defense

Desert (yellow)
20% damage to non-desert capable units/turn
1.5 move/hex
Scouts have line of sight in adjacent hexes

Mountain (dark brown)
3 move/hex
+3 defense

Forested Mountain
3 move/hex
+2 defense
Supports Mines or Lumber Mills

High Mountains (grey)
Impassible

Volcano (red)
3 move/hex
+4 defense

Hills (brown)
1.5 move/hex

Tundra (white)
20% damage to non-tundra capable units/turn
1.5 move/hex
-1 defense

Water (blue)
Instantly kills any non-water capable units in the hex


Say your moving through mountain hexes, your unit wouls use 3 points for 2 hexes because 1.5 movement speed.

Omnicrat
2013-09-06, 02:29 PM
Problem with linking all the stated rules in the comic is that some of them are extensions of unknown rules.

As for combat

1d10+X+Bonus (X being the applicable stat)

I don't think that fits with the book 0 description of luckamancy regarding combat.

Its at least 1dX + Y + Bonus, X being based on class, Y being the stat.

But I still like my second model best.

Also, I forget the exact terminology that should be used for this ability, but...

Active scan: When units are actively trying to find veiled units, they receive a bonus to do so. For each consecutive turn that they do this, the bonus goes down until it reaches 0. This bonus replenishes to full at a rate of 2 * (N - 1) consecutive turns off of active scan where N is equal to the number of turns on.

Anyone have anything else?

Durmatagno
2013-09-06, 02:36 PM
I don't think that fits with the book 0 description of luckamancy regarding combat.

Its at least 1dX + Y + Bonus, X being based on class, Y being the stat.

But I still like my second model best.

Also, I forget the exact terminology that should be used for this ability, but...

Active scan: When units are actively trying to find veiled units, they receive a bonus to do so. For each consecutive turn that they do this, the bonus goes down until it reaches 0. This bonus replenishes to full at a rate of 2 * (N - 1) consecutive turns off of active scan where N is equal to the number of turns on.

Anyone have anything else?

Except 1dX is really odd, a 1d10+stat+applicable bonuses makes more sense.. That means that a luckamancer can increase or decrease that final bonus. A 1dX also means that the (far more common to see to me) tabletops of this game can't be done with these rolls. No one has 1d9s and 7s because tehy don't exist. Perhaps instead luckamancers can make it 1d8, 1d6, 1d12 ETC

The-Outsider
2013-09-06, 02:46 PM
casting could definitely use an explanation.

And hey. :smallamused:

Arkhaic
2013-09-06, 03:05 PM
So, you use 1 move to move 1 hex (assuming no penalty). That wasn't stated explicitly anywhere in the document.

Omnicrat
2013-09-06, 03:17 PM
Except 1dX is really odd, a 1d10+stat+applicable bonuses makes more sense.. That means that a luckamancer can increase or decrease that final bonus. A 1dX also means that the (far more common to see to me) tabletops of this game can't be done with these rolls. No one has 1d9s and 7s because tehy don't exist. Perhaps instead luckamancers can make it 1d8, 1d6, 1d12 ETC

Dx where X is based on class. like 1d2 for stabber, 1d4 for piker, 1d6 for archer...

Those are bad examples, and the actual numbers would be different, thats why I just said Dx where X is class dependant.

All that said, one can easily emulate dAnything with real dice, so I think Dstat is the best option and it works. I, however, am in no way the final authority.


casting could definitely use an explanation.

And hey. :smallamused:

Any suggestions? Also, why the amused?

Durmatagno
2013-09-06, 03:56 PM
Dx where X is based on class. like 1d2 for stabber, 1d4 for piker, 1d6 for archer...

Those are bad examples, and the actual numbers would be different, thats why I just said Dx where X is class dependant.

All that said, one can easily emulate dAnything with real dice, so I think Dstat is the best option and it works. I, however, am in no way the final authority.



Any suggestions? Also, why the amused?

Well, the infantry should all be pretty close, with a higher defense roll if garrisoned.

Stabber: 1d8, 1d6 (1d8, 1d8)
Piker: 1d6, 1d8 (1d6, 1d10)
Archer: 1d10, 1d4 (1d12, 1d6)
Knight: 1d12, 1d12 (1d12, 2d8)

ETC

Omnicrat
2013-09-06, 04:47 PM
Well, the infantry should all be pretty close, with a higher defense roll if garrisoned.

Stabber: 1d8, 1d6 (1d8, 1d8)
Piker: 1d6, 1d8 (1d6, 1d10)
Archer: 1d10, 1d4 (1d12, 1d6)
Knight: 1d12, 1d12 (1d12, 2d8)

ETC

Yeah, I said those were bad examples. I was just trying to convey the point.

What would A/B, C, and D be? I'm pretty sure thats the system we'll be using, if no one objectes to it.

edit: Though I would lower all those d at least one step.

Omnicrat
2013-09-06, 08:49 PM
Okay, so this is what I would put the dice at for combat...

Stabber: 1d6, 1d4 (1d6, 1d6)
Piker: 1d4, 1d6 (1d4, 1d8)
Archer: 1d8, 1d2 (1d10, 1d4)
Knight: 1d10, 1d10 (1d10*, 1d12)
Special A/B: 1d8, 1d8 (1d8*, 1d10)
Special C: 1d12, 1d10 (1d12*, 1d12)
Special D: 2d8, 1d8 (2d8*, 1d10)

*If the unit has the ranged special, increase one step.

Durmatagno
2013-09-06, 09:05 PM
Okay, so this is what I would put the dice at for combat...

Stabber: 1d6, 1d4 (1d6, 1d6)
Piker: 1d4, 1d6 (1d4, 1d8)
Archer: 1d8, 1d2 (1d10, 1d4)
Knight: 1d10, 1d10 (1d10*, 1d12)
Special A/B: 1d8, 1d8 (1d8*, 1d10)
Special C: 1d12, 1d10 (1d12*, 1d12)
Special D: 2d8, 1d8 (2d8*, 1d10)

*If the unit has the ranged special, increase one step.

Special C: 1d12, 1d12
Special D: 2d8, 2d6(They are supposed to be the ultimate units after all)

Clarkson
2013-09-06, 09:19 PM
In my mind, stuff like combat (a hidden mechanic) isn't in there, because it's well, a hidden mechanic. No player should know exactly how it's run, and since most things will probably never be revealed, I see no reason in not just making stuff up on the fly.

Like Rob!

Durmatagno
2013-09-06, 09:57 PM
In my mind, stuff like combat (a hidden mechanic) isn't in there, because it's well, a hidden mechanic. No player should know exactly how it's run, and since most things will probably never be revealed, I see no reason in not just making stuff up on the fly.

Like Rob!

Ummmmmm, because I at least want to eventually run it, and we need to know this stuff for our GM. GMs have behind the scenes things they can do to these rules, we're just making a base ruleset.

Omnicrat
2013-09-06, 10:16 PM
Special C: 1d12, 1d12
Special D: 2d8, 2d6(They are supposed to be the ultimate units after all)

Fair enough. One mechanic down, unless someone else has a better idea. Yay! :smallbiggrin:


Ummmmmm, because I at least want to eventually run it, and we need to know this stuff for our GM. GMs have behind the scenes things they can do to these rules, we're just making a base ruleset.

This. Hidden mechanics are fine for the story, and I assume Titan's will tweak them in some way, but we still need a consistent base mechanic.

Hm... Maybe have multiple base mechanics and the Titan picks his favorite one?

Durmatagno
2013-09-06, 10:34 PM
Fair enough. One mechanic down, unless someone else has a better idea. Yay! :smallbiggrin:



This. Hidden mechanics are fine for the story, and I assume Titan's will tweak them in some way, but we still need a consistent base mechanic.

Hm... Maybe have multiple base mechanics and the Titan picks his favorite one?

Nah, we come up with a system base, and the Titan does edits to the end result behind the scenes based on situation, whim, and the like.

Omnicrat
2013-09-07, 02:24 AM
Some new spells for the 'mancies. All subject to change.

Predictamancy - Predict: Juice cost, Variable. Effect, learn one item of fate.

Mathemancy - Calculate: Juice cost, Variable. Effect, learn the odds of one engagement/battle/stratege/ect. succeeding.

Weirdomancy - Freedom of Movement (probably needs better name): Juice cost, X. Effect, reduce movement penalty of a hex by X/10.

Changeamancy - (De)Specialization: Juice cost, Variable (see effect). Effect, 5/point add simple special, 10/point remove simple special, 10/point add complex special, 15/point remove complex special, 15/point add D-class special, 20/point remove D-class special

Flower Power - Give Me Peace: Juice cost, 2/level/unit. Effect, a targeted number of units is unable to initiate combat for 1 round and partial stacks cannot be targeted.

Signamancer - Perfect Maintenance (needs a better name) Juice cost, 30/City Level. Effect, The City is shining, the popped units are beautiful, and the rations are delicious, increasing loyalty of units stationed here and giving them a small combat bonus in its defense.

I'm too sleepy to keep going, more tomorrow.

Omnicrat
2013-09-08, 04:06 AM
Another spell

Dirtamancer/Thinkamancer link - Re-design: Juice cost, 10/point. Effect, may redistribute a number of flavor points equal to 1/10 of the juice spent allowing the casters to completely change the look of the city if they redistribute all of its flavor points.

And another mechanic

When a caster wants to be able to cast from a new discipline, they need to train and spend juice. Spending 30 juice gives you have a 1% chance of getting level 0 in the desired discipline. This juice may be spread out over multiple turns, but at least some juice must be spent each turn. If you do not spend juice on learning a new discipline for one turn, all progress is lost and you must begin again. You also gain a +1% if you cast from a discipline that uses the same class, +1% if you cast from a discipline that uses the same axis, and studying under a master (most likely from the magic kingdom) gives you a x2 bonus to your total percent chance if you do so for the entire time.

The turn after you finish spending 30 juice you roll. If you don't make you're roll, you've wasted your juice and your time. If you make the roll, you are now a level 0 caster in the disciple you were training in.

A level 0 caster needs to train to become level 1, as before, only now your total percent chance is multiplied by 10.

Any thoughts?

Clarkson
2013-09-08, 12:00 PM
Just going to point out that wierdamancy, not changamancy adds and subtracts specials.

Changamancy seems to me that it would more alter units templates when a unit is produced from a given city, or changing what type (stabber=>Special D) a given unit is.

Omnicrat
2013-09-08, 01:43 PM
Just going to point out that wierdamancy, not changamancy adds and subtracts specials.

Changamancy seems to me that it would more alter units templates when a unit is produced from a given city, or changing what type (stabber=>Special D) a given unit is.

This was a topic of debate, but we eventually decided changamancy dealt with specials in general, while wierdomancy dealt with movement and forms of movement.

If you have a dissenting opinion, I would love to hear a case for it. :smallsmile:

Clarkson
2013-09-08, 02:09 PM
Wait, where was this decided?

To me, changamancy allows permanent changes to a template (giving knights another special, adding points, lowering upkeep) or changing one unit to another.

Klog 2, in book 2 makes me think that wierdamancy can give any unit any special for the turn. Or cancel ones that the enemy has.

Of course, I have no other reasons, so I'm not turning this into an argument. You can do what you want, it's your game.

Omnicrat
2013-09-08, 02:32 PM
Wait, where was this decided?

To me, changamancy allows permanent changes to a template (giving knights another special, adding points, lowering upkeep) or changing one unit to another.

Klog 2, in book 2 makes me think that wierdamancy can give any unit any special for the turn. Or cancel ones that the enemy has.

Of course, I have no other reasons, so I'm not turning this into an argument. You can do what you want, it's your game.

The people who are going to be playing under these rules are also in an IRC talking about it.

PERMANENT change? How does that work?

And we took that to be movement, so you can add or remove fly or capability with weirdomancy for a lower juice cost than changemancy, but you can only add that stuff.

edit: I didn't sleep well and forgot yo read your last sentence. :smalltongue:

And this is open to everyone to contribute, the fact that I'm part of a group that will be running these rules shouldn't matter.

Clarkson
2013-09-09, 12:03 AM
An immense amount of juice over many turns. Or just a high level changamancer.

Gem
2013-09-09, 09:50 AM
Since we don't have any templates for Dirtamancy golems yet, I thought I'd produce some. These are similar to the pre-existing Templates for infantry and Special Units. I based this off the Juice costs for Dollamancers, but weakened the units a bit to compensate for the fact that dirtamancy requires no Loose Materials. I also pre-assigned a few points, for the same reason.

Like Dollamancy, each Dirtamancer would take these templates and create fully-fledged designs out of them. Designs can vary from Mancer to mancer, and can be traded between dirtamancers.

Golem:
All golems can buy the "burrowing" special for 2 points, but cannot buy flight. Golems cannot have "intelligent" specials. Like dollamancy designs, golem designs are fixed.

Crap 10 (Infantry +) (6/4/4/4) +2 (Can pick a simple special)
Soft Rock 30 (A/B) (8/6/6/4)+6
Hard Rock 50 (Weak C) (18/6/12/4/Heavy) + 4
Acid 60 (Weak D) (18/4/4/4/Heavy) +12, Sour Spit, Acid
Metal 80 (Standard D) (20/6/8/3/Heavy) +18

Edit:
After some input from Terrin, here's an updated version:

Crap 10 (Infantry +) (6/5/3/4) +2 (Can pick a simple special)
Soft Rock 30 (A/B) (8/6/6/4)+6
Hard Rock 50 (Weak C) (18/8/10/4/Heavy) + 4
Acid 60 (Weak D) (18/4/4/4/Heavy) +12, Sour Spit, Acid
Metal 80 (Standard D) (20/6/10/3/Heavy) +16 Can't Touch This (+6 to defense, melee attackers take 2 damage, regardless of the success of their attack)

You will note that the Metal golem has a new special, which follows. Feedback on the special is appreciated also.

D-Class Special:
6 Points: Can't touch this. Unit gets +6 to defense. Melee attackers take 2 damage, regardless of the success of their attack.

Omnicrat
2013-09-09, 09:22 PM
New rules/clarifications

Multiple casters of the same discipline can cast certain spells together in the same turn, sharing the juice cost of the spell, effectively. The more obvious the spell, the more likely casters will be able to cooperate for it.

Thinkamancers can use juice transfer to feed juice into casters casting a spell with a juice cost that would otherwise be above its maximum available juice.

A caster can spread out the casting of a spell or making of a scroll over multiple turns. The first turn they may spend up to their maximum juice, the second they may spend up to 1/4 of their juice, the third they may spend up to 1/4 of their juice. No "boomy" spells or scrolls can continue to be made in this way beyond this point. Each subsequent turn has a maximum of 1/4 juice spent and continues as such until the spell or scroll is complete.

New Spell

Dollamancer/Thinkamancer link - Super Siege: Juice Cost, 10/point or 5/point, see effect. Effect, move around the points, to a maximum of 5, on siege engines. Reduce cost by half if cast on the same turn it is built. The maximum number of points that can be moved around in this way is 8.

Thinkamancy - Suggestion: Juice cost, variable. Effect, you cause a mental effect in the subject that causes them to take specific actions and can effect hidden stats such as loyalty and duty. You are not aware of how powerful the effect is, only how much juice you spent on it. The more juice you spend, the more likely your suggestion is to be successful, and the greater the thinkamancy feedback if it fails.

Siege

Siege is a form of natural dollamancy that occurs inside cities. A side spends shmuckers, uses its loose materials, and makes a siege unit. Siege units are a special type of equipment that needs to be manned and functions as a unit when manned.

Siege Tower
Cost: 300 Shmuckers, 1 loose materials
Stats: 20/5/0/3
Manned By: 8 man stack
Special: Allows stacks to scale walls that still have units on them.

Ballista
Cost: 500 Shmuckers, 3 loose materials
Stats: 20/10/5/3
Manned By: 8 man stack
Special: Ranged

Catapult
Cost: 1000 Shmuckers, 5 loose materials
Stats: 15/20/10/3
Manned by: 8 man stack
Special: Ranged

Clarkson
2013-09-09, 10:35 PM
Throw some ranged specials on some of those.

Omnicrat
2013-09-09, 11:27 PM
Throw some ranged specials on some of those.

Duh. :smalltongue:

Fixing that now.

And did you get my PM?

Omnicrat
2013-09-10, 02:33 AM
Diminishing Returns
For any side with more than ten cities, there is a 5% decrease in the shmuckers provided by each city, to a maximum of 50% penalty.

Gem
2013-09-10, 06:26 PM
Veiled units are invisible. In other news, water is wet. In order to detect any given veiled unit, a unit must succeed in a spot check. Only command units, or units with the Leadership special can make spot checks. Spot checks have a given probability of succeeding, depending on the quality of the veil. See below for probabilities.

Spot checks are made whenever a Spotter unit enters a hex that contains something to be Spotted, or when a unit that can be Spotted enters the hex of a Spotter unit. In addition to this, Spot checks are made at the start and at the end of a turn.

If the check succeeds, the unit's veil is pierced. All units in the same hex become aware of the veil, and the unit(s) it was hiding. This awareness lasts until the start of the Spotted units' next turn, or until they leave the hex.

Veils are usually gained by foolamancy, but can be gained by specials or other means:

Burrowed: Gives an Adept-level veil.
Djinn stealth: Gives a Mage-level

If a unit gains veils from multiple sources, these are stacked additively. Each method of bestowing a veil counts as one "source". Thus, a mage-class foolamancy veil, Djinn stealth and burrow would bestow a Master++ veil, but multiple foolamancy veils would not even stack additively.

The point value of all veils on a given unit is added, and the result is used to determine the strength of the units' veil. This is treated as only one veil, it must only be pierced by one check to reveal the unit.

Probability that a Spotter will pierce a given unit's veil:

Probability multipliers (Only the highest multiplier applies)
Leadership: 0.5
Command unit or caster: 1.0
Lookamancer, Thinkamancer or Foolamancer: 1.5
Ruler: 2.5

Adept-level (1): 10%
Mage-level (2): 8%
Master-level (3): 6%
(Master +, only achievable by veil stacking) (4): 5%
(Master ++, only achievable by veil stacking:) (5) 4%

Omnicrat
2013-09-12, 03:57 AM
New Spells

Universal - Juice to damage is removed.

Universal - Hoboken: Juice Cost, 10. Effect, 10 damage to one specific target.

Findamancy - Passive - Gain the Track special

Shockamancy - Passive removed and replaced with hoboken deals 2x damage

Shockamancy - Zzzap! - Juice cost, X. Effect, deal 1.5X damage to any number of targets.

Shockamancy - Flash: Juice Cost, 5. Flash provides a... distraction, giving a 15% chance to be sneak attacked and/or not get a chance to detect veiled units. This can stack with multiple casters simultaneously casting flash to a maximum of 60%. If the flashed side has no leadership present, then a single flash is instead a 100% chance for a sneak attack.

Shockamancy - Shock: Juice Cost, 5 per stack. Effect, stuns every unit in the targeted stacks for one round, giving the effect of being disabled, though they recover by the next round of combat.

Dittomancy - Double: Juice Cost, 5 * 2^X. Effect, double a single stat of a single unit for a whole turn has X = 1, quadruple has X = 2 and so on.

Dittomancy - Mass Double: Juice Cost, 25 * 2^X. Effect, double a single stat of all allied units in a hex for one round of combat has X = 1, quadruple has X = 2 and so on.

Dittomancy - Clone: Juice Cost, 2 for infantry, 5 for knight, 4 for Specail A/B, 10 for Special C, 20 for Special D, 30 for a warlord, 50 for a chief warlord, 100 for a King/Overlord. Effect, create an exact clone of one unit for an entire turn. This effect can clone your leader, preventing side fall or heir ascension until the clone either dies or is undone. Clones last until the end of your turn.

Dittomancy - Mass Clone: Juice Cost, 5 per infantry, 10 per knight, 8 per special A/B, 20 per Special C, 40 for special D, 50 for command units. Effect, for each unit targeted, crate a clone stack of 8 clones with the following differences; 1) All stats are halved, rounded down. 2) Move is removed. 3) All intelligent specials are removed from non-command units. 4) All non-command units are considered unintelligent. 5) All command units leadership scores are halved, rounded down. 6) Mass Cloned Chief Warlords and Leaders do not count as such. All clones cease to be at the end of the casters turn

Rules specification

Command units that somehow gain points to their creation chassis can spend said points on 1 simple special.

Units that are not heavy cannot gain hits from leveling.

Combat Dice Specification

Crap - 1d6, 1d6 (1d6*, 1d8)

Scout - 1d2, 1d2 (1d2, 1d4)

Courtier - 1d2, 1d2 (1d2*, 1d4)

Warlord/Heir/Overlord/King - 1d12, 1d12 (1d12*, 2d8)

Caster - 1d6, 1d6 (1d6*, 1d8)

Clarkson
2013-09-12, 07:43 PM
Back to the siege weapons, shouldn't they have siege?

New spells look good so far.

Omnicrat
2013-09-12, 10:10 PM
Back to the siege weapons, shouldn't they have siege?

New spells look good so far.

Yeah, we talked about that in the IRC and Gem should be posting the updated version of them.

You also never PMed me back about that. Did you not get it?

Omnicrat
2013-09-14, 01:30 AM
This is a post I accidentally didn't submit in my sleepiness. It has some extra stuff.

New Specials and Special clarifications

Water Capability - Allows a unit to swim and dive (diving counts as being burrowed) and has the normal effects of capability.

Tunnel Capability - Allows heavy units to enter tunnels and has the normal effects of capability. Golems start with this.

Packhorse - Point Cost, 6. Type, D-Class. Prerequisite, Mount. Effect, this unit can carry 5x its normal maximum unit capacity. These extra units can not engage in combat.

Sticky Sides - Point cost, 4. Type, D-Class. Prerequisite, bubble breath. Effect, if this unit makes a successful attack on a stack (one that would deal damage), it may automatically capture and restrain a number of units up to the maximum it can carry.

jojolagger
2013-09-14, 05:54 PM
The biggest problem with modeling erfworld is how it works at different scales and how the rng works.

The scale problem means combat rules would be somewhat separate from the rules of running the side. The World map level stuff is a turn based hex grid resource management game. The single hex level stuff is a Real time strategy game. And most of the combat rules are hidden. Screening and what not. We know there are crits, but not their likelihood or actual effect.

And for the RNG, it's really bad, because luckamancy is trading a roll you get now for a roll you get later. It's really hard to model this to have the proper long term effect without some program running it for you by pre-generating a large number of rolls.

Honestly, I doubt a proper rule set for erfworld can be done without Word of God assistance, and I'm pretty sure not know all the rules is the point, and will remain so for quite some time. And I can't imagine w

I really like the idea of being able to play erfworld. I'm going to dig throught everything I can look over and see if I can notice any ways to help out, but a good chunk will be shots in the dark, or guesses based on how people act in erfworld.

Omnicrat
2013-09-14, 11:58 PM
The biggest problem with modeling erfworld is how it works at different scales and how the rng works.

The scale problem means combat rules would be somewhat separate from the rules of running the side. The World map level stuff is a turn based hex grid resource management game. The single hex level stuff is a Real time strategy game. And most of the combat rules are hidden. Screening and what not. We know there are crits, but not their likelihood or actual effect.

And for the RNG, it's really bad, because luckamancy is trading a roll you get now for a roll you get later. It's really hard to model this to have the proper long term effect without some program running it for you by pre-generating a large number of rolls.

Honestly, I doubt a proper rule set for erfworld can be done without Word of God assistance, and I'm pretty sure not know all the rules is the point, and will remain so for quite some time. And I can't imagine w

I really like the idea of being able to play erfworld. I'm going to dig throught everything I can look over and see if I can notice any ways to help out, but a good chunk will be shots in the dark, or guesses based on how people act in erfworld.

To be fair, this project is more getting a playable and mechanically balanced game out there that is erfworld themed than it is re-creating erfworld in a game.

For example, it was recently decided (though not yet posted) that beast-class units count as intelligent and can be uncroaked.

We're still trying to keep the feel of erfworld, but if enough people think a mechanic should be one way, despite in-comic evidence to the contrary (so long as the reason is about balance and not about "because this is how I like it"), it will be that way.

This makes it MUCH easier to design a game, since even if there are explicit rules, they can be ignored or altered for more functional rules.

Omnicrat
2013-09-16, 04:21 AM
New Special.

Reinforced - Point cost, 3. Type, D-Class. Effect, +4 to defense.

Luckamancy mechanic

When you effect a roll, you spend juice on that roll and decide your desired outcome, then you roll (be sure to record your roll) and replace the result with your desired outcome. Next time that unit-type rolls (if within X turns, X being the luckamancer level, you may choose to ignore it) the result you choose, replace it with the result you rolled.

Example - Your stabber is fighting a badly wounded Warlord, and you want to make sure he croaks it. Your Level 1 Luckamancer spend the appropriate juice to give yourself a 6. You then roll the die, with a result of 2. Record 2, Stabber attack. Treat the 2 as a 6. You kill the Warlord!

Later that same turn, a stabber is fighting a knight and rolls a 6. Since the luckamancer was level 1, you can choose to ignore it, and you do so.

Next turn, a stabber is fighting an a/b class and is about to kill it. It rolls a 6. Because you only had one turn to choose what roll is used, you must replace this 6 with the 2 rolled the previous turn. Remove that roll from your record of rolls to replace.

Omnicrat
2013-09-17, 01:49 PM
Combat Dice for Boats

Sloop - 1d6, 1d6

Galley - 1d12, 1d12

Galleon - 2d8, 2d8

Note: These numbers were conceived and posted just before going to bed. If they are terrible, please take that into account.

Clarkson
2013-09-18, 12:55 AM
Yay! Liking reinforced, and the luckamancy seems like the best way to run it. I didn't think of the luckamancer being able to put off the recoil, but its the best way to run a subpar discipline.

EDIT: Who can set off air defenses? Can Warlords? Or is it just casters?

How many points does Tunnel Capability cost?

Gem
2013-09-18, 02:11 AM
Yay! Liking reinforced, and the luckamancy seems like the best way to run it. I didn't think of the luckamancer being able to put off the recoil, but its the best way to run a subpar discipline.

EDIT: Who can set off air defenses? Can Warlords? Or is it just casters?

How many points does Tunnel Capability cost?

Command units and simplemancers can set off air defenses at 75% efficiency. Normal casters or simple shockamancers get 100% efficiency, and shockamancers get 150% efficiency.

It's best to ask this kind of question in chat, since that's where we discuss the answer anyway. If you're there, you can lend your voice to the discussion!

Edit:
I'll defer to Omni re: tunnel capability. It's a 2-point special, and dirtamancy golems get it free.

Omnicrat
2013-09-18, 02:13 AM
Capability is 2 points, whether for tunnel or swamp or what have you.

Current ruling, Non-casting command units can discharge air defense at a 25% penalty. Simplemancers can do the same, unless they are simple shockamancers, then they function as normal casters. If they are both a command unit and simplemancer, they function as a caster of their appropriate discipline.

And talk with people in the IRC! :smalltongue:

Gem
2013-09-18, 02:42 AM
Under the mechanics of erfworld, siege units are equipment, falling under Matter, but not Life. However, when stacked up with at least the necessary number of infantry, they may act as units (at the cost of the infantry's actions). Despite acting as units, siege does not benefit from stacking, dance-fighting or leadership bonuses. They count as a C-class unit for all other purposes, though they have no loyalty, and cannot Turn.

If siege units gain any points to allocate, they may not buy any specials.

Siege Tower
Cost: 300 Shmuckers, 1 loose materials
Stats: 20/0/5/3
Manned By: 8 man stack
Special: Allows stacks to scale walls that still have units on them.

Ballista
Cost: 1200 Shmuckers, 5 loose materials
Stats: 15/15/10/3
Manned By: 8 man stack
Special: Ranged, Siege, Skeet Shooter
Skeet Shooter: Siege Only, this unit deals double damage to fliers.

Catapult
Cost: 1200 Shmuckers, 5 loose materials
Stats: 15/15/10/3
Manned by: 8 man stack
Special: Ranged , Siege, Demolisher
Demolisher: Siege only, this unit's combat score is doubled vs. structures

Clarkson
2013-09-18, 04:01 AM
New D - Class Special: Pincushion: 4 points Gain 8 hits

Omnicrat
2013-09-18, 09:46 AM
Stagemancy Passive - Trick: Once per day per level, you can perform a trick. A trick replicates the effect of a single spell you can cast up to a maximum juice cost equal to 10+level% of your maximum juice (round up). The effects are exactly as the spell description, except you do not spend juice on it and may gain no experience from it.

Dxnatta
2013-09-18, 01:33 PM
What irc are you guys talking about?

Omnicrat
2013-09-18, 02:39 PM
An IRC with people who are going to be playing under these rules once finished, including the DM and one adviser.

Gem
2013-09-22, 10:19 PM
Some magic!

First: Moneymany

Moneymancy passive:
Moneymancers gain the Builder and Surveyor specials.

Make It Rain:
Boost your city income for the next turn by 50%. This stacks multiplicatively with any existing multipliers (say, courtiers), but only applies to the city's own production. Income from upgrades (farms, mines, mills) is not multiplied.
1 city: 30 Juice
Nearest 3 cities: 60 Juice
All cities on your side: 120 Juice


Fund Collage:
Cost: x juice
Pick an "investment". Any one-time Smuckers expenditure can be considered an investment (e.g. a city upgrade). The maximum value of this investment may be x * 500 smuckers. On the turn you cast this spell, pay half the investment's cost in smuckers. These smuckers are lost, as part of the cost of the spell. On the 5th turn after casting this spell, the investment is completed, as if it had been legitimately paid for. The investment can only be completed if it is still available, else the spell is lost. If the investment involves another party (say, paying off a debt), the other party recieves the full sum, as if you had paid for it normally.

Example:
Don King wants to upgrade a city from level 3 to level 4. This takes 40k smuckers. Benjamin pays 80 juice to cast Fund Collage and selects this upgrade as his investment. Don King reluctantly pays 20k smuckers as the cost of the spell. 5 Turns later, the city upgrades normally.


Truly Outrageous:
Cost: x juice
Convert x * 2000 smuckers into a gem. This gem can be carried by units without weighing on their purse, or be transferred via hats, like any other small object. It can be converted back into smuckers by any side's ruler or moneymancer.


Audit: 50 juice
Lets the moneymancer gain a glimpse of another side's finances. The moneymancer gets exact information of one side's total income and expenditures, as well as the size of their treasury. In order to cast this spell, the moneymancer must be within 10xlevel hexes of the target side's capital. The Audited side knows that they were audited, who audited them, and where they were Audited from.


Industrialize:
Moneymancers can also convert Smuckers into equipment. While most units pop with their necessary equipment, Moneymancers can make Nice Things from smuckers. Each Nice Thing created costs 500 smuckers and 5 juice for each loose material it would have used.

-----------------

Beyond that, I'm gonna list a bunch of spells that have come up in the last two days.


Cosmic Cosmetics - Signamancy (Gail)

Cost: 3/unit

"Natural Signamancy" my teacher used to say, as he sat around in his armchair doing precisely nothing of use "Is the most perfect expression of a given unit's inner personality, a magic we cannot even begin to comprehend. In more unique units it is more evident of course. There's always been a reason why, despite my aptitude in severl disciplines, signamancy has always been my favorite". At this point he'd take a quick puff from his pipe at just the right angle to seem wise rather than like a man ruining his health for nothing. "It's tied to the natural laws of Erf and its inhabitants, forged by the titans themselves to represent that unit in their entirety". And this is where it hit me, this man knew what he meant, he was talking of something greater than
you or I. But then he did something, he split a massive grin, a manic one that showed off his teeth in such a manner that I began to wish for a chamber pot. Then he said, in a joyous tone of defiance accompanied by a short, and rather ominous, chuckle. "And I can ruin it with but a thought. Isn't that marvelous!?".


Targetted units can now pass for anything, as long as it is another unit of course. A simple stabber could be a raging demonic bear or a caster become a dwagon. Of course, the change is purely cosmetic in essence, but it is fully convincing. A unit that has recieved Cosmic Cosmetics can pass for any unit type belonging to its own side, its unit type does not suffer any alterations but this unit will not be doubted in its status as a unit of that type unless brought into specific circumstances. For example, not flying as a dwagon despite that being their primary mode of transport etc etc. This cosmetic change is permanent unless willed away by the affected unit or the original caster. A Lookamancer (not a unit with a Lookamancy simplemancy) can automatically see through Cosmic Cosmetics. Allied units also immediately recognise that there is small Signamancy at work but cannot see through it and often do not notice it after the first instance of seeing that particular subject. Combat automatcally breaks Cosmic Cosmetics in place if they are being used to pose as a different unit type, simple visual changes like hair colour, if any, are left in place.




Sick Burns/Ode to your Mother (Gail)
Cost: X^2/8Units
A limerack, rap battle or simple insult so heartbreaking that it even harms unit stats.

Targetted unit recieves a penalty to its combat OR defence stat (If the unit is a caster then their juice pool can also be targetted. A unit with a juice pool cannot be targetted in the same casting of this spell as a unit lacking a juice pool, and vice versa. The numerical penalty applied to a juice pool is multiplied by 5 after initial calculation. The stat targetted is chosen for each casting of this spell, not for each unit affected) equal to X+1, this penalty lasts until the beginning of the turn of the side that the affected unit belongs to, at which point the metaphysical wound is healed as though it were a real one, though the shame remains. This spell can be expanded to affect up to 80 different units at once as long as they are in a single hex, if it is expanded in this manner the total juice cost is to be multiplied by 5.



Rhyme A Long - Ryhmomancy (Cee)

You can spend up to X/2 juice, where X is the cost of a spell an allied caster is casting. Reduce the cost of the allied spell by that much.

Rockin Out: Spend (1+2+3+4...) up to x times in juice to give target allied unit the Rockin Out status. Rockin Out lets you allot +x over the allied units stats whenever it is Dance Fighting this turn. This may be cast as many times in a row as you want. You may pay x5 the cost to give this benefit to up to 16 units in your stack.


The Decisive Battle: (Mathamancy) (Cee)

Choose one particular clash of stacks, units, or so such (Titan chooses this), and recognize this as the Decisive Battle. The Titan assigns across the decisive units/stacks a total of +8 boost. Each side gains that bonus as an untyped unable to be multiplied boost to all their allied units in the Hex. This is only known to the mathamancer that casts the spell. Only one Decisive Battle may be found per hex, if another mathamancer looks for the Decisive Battle, they learn the units of this one. The boosts only apply on a turn that the given units are in contact with the enemy.

5 Juice: You know there is a Decisive Battle in the Hex.
10 Juice: You know where the Decisive Units are in one of 5 stacks, or are a specific type of unit, at Titans Option.
20 Juice: You know where the Decisive Units are to within 2 stacks, or 16 units on each side, at Titan's Option.
30 Juice: You know the exact Decisive Units are on both sides.
45 Juice: You know the exact Decisive Units on both sides and what bonuses each carries.

-------

Also, here are some hat magic spells that were vaguely discussed in chat, but have no flavor yet.

Secret Stash
30 Juice:
Generate 1 loose material in your current city.


Wabbits!
X juice.
Summons up to 10 Wabbit that last for 3 turns. Different Wabbits can be summoned.
2 Juice: Basic Wabbit: 3/2/2/16, burrow, scout dice, scout thinkamamncy.
4 Juice: Big Wabbit: 8/5/5/8, burrow, Infantry dice. Can man Siege.
8 Juice: Wascally Wabbit: 12/8/8/6, burrow, A-class dice


Summon Siege!

Summon a Siege Engine (Tower, Catapult or Ballista) into your current hex. These function as if they'd been produced normally, though cannot be modified by Dollamancers. The siege lasts until the beginning of you next turn.

Tower: 15 Juice.
Ballista/Catapult: 30 Juice.


Gear Up

Summons Nice Things for your units. Costs 2 Juice per loose material saved. Nice Things last for 1 turn only. Cannot summon Sandwiches.


Hat-comm:

Can enchant any one unit's headwear. Enchanted headwear has a juice upkeep of 1 per turn and allows 2-way transfer. Small objects (usually pictures and letters or gems) can be sent between the two parties, which allows detailed communication.


And, for anyone who's interested, here's my shortlist of issues we've discussed and resolved recently. If I was more of bureaucrat, I'd call this our minutes, but I'm not quite so far gone.



Changamancy passive: Any one simple special for simple changeamancers, any one simple or complex for Complex changemancers

Weirdomancy passive: flight AND burrow

Thinkamancer juice transfer: Reciever can gain exp from casting with transferred juice?

Omni's Knight thing (issues resolved)

Percentage boosts: (Dittomancy stat doubling, doubled combat from specific specials, Terrain Capability) use the base stat value, not modified by specials, items or any other temporary mods. Specials that give only stats (Such as Reinforced or Lightning Breath) may count.

Lookamancy: Lookamancer's own veil spot chance applies to his spells.

Nice Thing speed boosts can apply to all movement modes, but each has its invididual Thing:

Tunneling Claws (Burrow)
Better Boots (Ground)
Minijet (Air)

Hat Magic: Summoning spells (Siege, nice things, units), communications links, Loose Materials (30 juice each)

Lumber Mills: Now produce 1 loose material or 100 smuckers every 3 days, in addition ot the 1% cost decrease

Simple mancers only have 1 juice pool for all their disciplines, except for Tactical Special mancers, which have 1 pool per mancy.

Leadership from different sources does not stack, exception: Chief Warlord boost

Dittomancy: Cloned units have the template's remaining HP and move

Road-Capable: Counts as terrain-capable while on the road improvement

Throne Room: 2 FP

Spells over several turns, juice investment limitation

Caster Chance is 1/(1+2^x)

A day's production is decided on the previous day and can be changed at will until the start of the turn. The first day's production is assumed to have been decided the day before.

Parallax
2013-10-31, 02:05 PM
To be fair, this project is more getting a playable and mechanically balanced game out there that is erfworld themed than it is re-creating erfworld in a game.

On that note, is there any effort currently aimed at inferring the actual rules of Erworld from the comic and creating a game that uses those rules? I couldn't find anything on the Erfworld forums, but I'm not a Tool...

Durmatagno
2013-10-31, 02:34 PM
On that note, is there any effort currently aimed at inferring the actual rules of Erworld from the comic and creating a game that uses those rules? I couldn't find anything on the Erfworld forums, but I'm not a Tool...

I pushed to follow as many comic rules as we know in this game, but unfortunatly, because of incomplete presented knowledge, most of it couldn't be balanced easily.

Parallax
2013-11-01, 05:58 AM
Agreed, definitely "most of it" is complete fabrication, which is why I asked if there was any current effort to track, organize and compile actual rules.

For the record, I am aware that it is not just very hard but totally impossible to completely follow the exact rules of Erfworld in an actual game, if only because anything pertaining to Predictamancy is just not going to be translatable into a game, starting with the way battlespaces are determined (look it up if you don't know.)

jojolagger
2013-11-01, 09:50 AM
For the record, I am aware that it is not just very hard but totally impossible to completely follow the exact rules of Erfworld in an actual game, if only because anything pertaining to Predictamancy is just not going to be translatable into a game, starting with the way battlespaces are determined (look it up if you don't know.)

I was going to try, but then college hit.

The main problem aspects for actually running a game are fate and luck. because of how luckamancy works, you need everything pre-rolled. Add to that the problem of links (tri-links are shown to do stuff that is completely unheard of), and it'll be nearly impossible to actually run.
And there is very little that explains how battlespaces work. It almost seems more like an RTS than turn based.