3.5 Sorcerer Help

[xkaliburr]

My wife is in our current campaign, and she is feeling kind of useless. I am looking to the forum to help her find a purpose. She is a level 7 Tiefling Sorcerer specializing in fire magic. She has gotten bored just sitting back and blasting stuff though.

She is a new addition to a party including a bard and a paladin, and a surprisingly loquacious monk, so she cannot step up to be the party face.

She is interested in melee, but we have the paladin, monk, barbarian and a druid. So the front line is a little crowded.

Any ideas on where she can fit in?

[Segev]

Utility?

She's level 7, which means 3rd level spells. Next level, she gets 4ths, and I strongly recommend Polymorph. She can use it on the front-liners as a buff, and on herself for all sorts of shapeshifting fun.

"Specializing in fire" sounds like she's got a heavy load-out of blasting magics, which means her battlefield control repertoir may be a bit lacking. Does she have Grease, or Web, or such things? What about Summon Monster (of any level)?

She should definitely have Fly by now; it's just too good not to have as a Sorceress.

What's her Familiar? Does she use its special abilities? There are some neat tricks one can pull with the Share Spells capability, depending on what her Familiar is. (Polymorph, for instance, can affect both her and her familiar for one casting.)

Greater Magic Weapon is another spell she can be useful with, but it won't feel all that glamorous: it lasts for an hour per level, and when she reaches next level, the enhancement bonus will be +2.

If she can get the spells, a combination of invisibility (for ease of maneuvering), fly, daggerspell stance, and burning blades (the latter two from the Spell Compendium and both level 2 spells, IIRC) can make her a dangerous flanker for her front-line allies, but she'll probably also want False Life to absorb a hit or two. Daggerspell Stance gives her some minor bonuses while dual-wielding daggers and I think lets her cast even with both hands full, and burning blades enchants both weapons to do +1d8 fire damage, which is in theme for her.

Vampiric Touch is another good front-liner spell. It's also one she could stuff into a front-liner's spell-storing weapon to be their good friend, too.

It really depends on what she thinks would be fun other than "blasting." Sorceresses can do almost anything if they set their minds to it and are willing to be at least a little dedicated. They can't nearly-freely alter their loadout like wizards, but they can pick for versatility and they can pick just about any schtick they want to be their focus and be pretty good at it.

[xkaliburr]

Thanks for the quick reply. She just leveled up to 7, so she selected fly as her second level 3 spell. She chose fireball initially, to fit with her fire theme. She is new to RPing, as are most of us in our group, so the "what would be fun?" question gets an "I don't know" most of the time.

Her familiar is a toad. She wanted the extra hit points.

[Segev]

What are her feats?

[xkaliburr]

Combat Casting
Improved Counterspell
Toughness

This is also what you guys would call low optimization.

[DeathGodKyo]

I think a very helpful thing for you to do as a starting point would be to have the DM up the descriptions a notch. If your wife feels like she's just "sitting back and being a blaster", she's probably not being reinforced by the image of her character masterfully weaving arcane symbols as gouts of fire erupt from wherever (depending on the spell) and scorch the earth as they char and break into cinders everything they come across. Amazing what a bit of DM involvement can do for a player's esteem.

Alternatively, have her capitalize on the fact that she's the only fully-powered arcane caster in the party. She could fill her own role in the party in ways such as boosting her Knowledge skills, and/or learning a number of Divination spells, allowing her to take a roll of information-gatherer for the party when mundane methods won't be enough. Plus, if said ranks also include Knowledge (religion), she could have unique roleplaying opportunities with Prestige Classes such as (and this is in order of best being taken) Divine Oracle, Sacred Exorcist (probably only a level, this is mainly for Turn Undead), and, if the alignment can be waived (or if she is, for some reason, a Lawful Good Sorcerer) finally the Silver Pyromancer. Hey, look at that, more fire stuff :D

Granted, this all requires she affiliate with a church, but this both gives her fun stuff to do and opens a bunch of plot hooks for the Dungeon Master.

People will yell at me for suggesting Silver Pyromancer since the first level of it doesn't boost your Sorcerer caster level, but hey, you guys have a paladin and a monk. I doubt you're optimizing or anything, and this fits a fire-sorcerer-who-wants-to-do-other-useful-stuff concept to a tee.

If being church-affiliated or Good is a problem, though, there are other options. She can buff her allies, but the Bard should have that down, and that's not even as much fun as blasting; she could split her interest into some good transmutation spells, and suddenly become an extremely powerful tactical point of the battle, able to morph the terrain to her advantage and debuff her opponents. I mean, what's better than being an incredibly powerful arcane master who can create flames to sear through reality itself, searing through all of the sorcerer's opponents? Oh, I know; being said Sorcerer, AND sculpting the very landscape around you to suit your strategies and whims, AND turning your opponents into squirrels and stuff! And look like the ultimate baddie while doing so. And hey... It counts as doing more than blasting, and gives her some creative options in battles.

Lastly, make sure she gets a good look at some of the Tentacle grappling spells. Even if you aren't using fireball, grouping your enemies is always helpful for a blaster, and the grapple makes things easier for everyone, though it might not be as much fun as the other options.

Hope I've offered something helpful. The most important thing is to have fun with whatever you decide! Best of luck to you guys!

[Segev]

Indeed. However, she does have 6 extra hp, which means she's doing okay-ish for at least a little mixing it up near the front lines. And with Combat Casting, she's actually fairly set for casting up there, too. So mix it up with buffs for the front-liners, perhaps.

Well. The toad isn't particularly mobile, but it can still deliver touch spells if she wants it to. I'd save it for next level, though, when it can become a polymorph-partner. Do consider, too, that eventually, Tenser's Transformation can be cast on it without her having to cast it on herself. The Familiar's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=hejumhrgserq9ug13qrqt1rr42&topic=7508.0) includes a good list of spells that can be shared with it; you might find something cool in there.

With Improved Counterspell, she probably would enjoy facing enemy casters to counterspell against; if you're the DM, I'd make sure both you and she know the rules for Counterspelling and the feat, and then provide her with some to counter. Preferably wizards, so she can feel really cool for countering their fewer-and-more-precisely-chosen spell slots with her more general and numerous ones.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Toughness is a terrible choice, see if she can retrain it, preferably to enable this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4). That will add tons of versatility and she can switch up what spells it gives her any time she wants.

[Segev]

What does she have that's flexible, and what's fixed?

Would optimizing the familiar as per the handbook linked earlier help her?

[xkaliburr]

Our DM does not allow a lot of retraining, and only on extended breaks from the campaign. And what I mean is it was one and a half years in game time between our two campaigns, so I was allowed to retrain stuff.

I am not sure if she could replace the familiar. Doesn't that cause XP loss as well. She seems to like him though, so I am sure she will want to keep him.

She seemed to really like the fly option you guys suggested. She is also looking into the PRC's listed. Thank you guys so much.

[Tathum]

It's funny, my girlfriend is the front line fighter and does the most damage in the group with her Greatsword...

But, she's also only interested in rolling high, she doesn't get off on the Roleplaying like the other players in the campaign. She saved the day during a fight a few sessions ago when the party had been surrounded in a right hallway with soldiers, reach weapons behind them, archers in the back, and a cleric directing them all.

She 20 - 20 - 20'd the Priest's head clean off his shoulders and broke through the lines, allowing Ranger to start using his bow again and giving the Cleric an AoO free zone to cast in again. It made her day to be the shining star.

If I may suggest, as DM, you do have the power to turn the campaign in her direction every now and then. Perhaps a puzzle only her magic can solve, or attack them with mobs that have physical DR, or NPC's that can only be swayed by her social skills (bluff and the like).

Flub rolls behind the screen, let her get the killing blow more often, and introduce NPC's pertinent to her side of the campaign story. In my campaigns, each character has a reason for being there and gets a little something to further that storyline every now and then. Take that goal to the player's personal taste (the guy playing the Ranger is big on taking care of people, so he's on the lookout for a woman he lost while guarding a caravan in a raid, the Cleric is the face of the party, loves a good arguement and social challenge, solves most of the in-town quests, and my girlfriend the fighter is a sucker for revenge, she's saving a special dagger to bury into a sub-boss' back).

So, just remember that you have the power to skew things in anyway you want, especially if that end is to make things a bit more fun for someone in the group...

[Segev]

Well, the Familiar Handbook should still help her make the "little guy" more useful. Look in particular at the spells suggested. There are a lot of tricks one can do, and even the frog can do many of them.

[xkaliburr]

I would love to do that, I am not the DM though. I am playing a paladin.

[Thistledown]

Which books are allowed for spells?

I'd echo the comments at expanding battlefield control and buffing as part of her repetoire.

Dropping "Haste" on the party will make her very popular and increase their effectiveness.
Equally spells like "Slow", "Blindness/Deafness" cast on foes at the right time, can turn the tide of battle.

Try and get her to pick spells which can be used in multiple ways.

Also does your DM use the rule in the PHB about being able to swap out spells from 4th level at every even numbered level?

How much gold does she have to spend?

One thing I did when my first 3.5 sorcerer was very low level (we started as level 1) was to supplement his arcane abilities with items like Alchemist's Fire, Thunderstones etc so that if he ran out of spells, he could still contribute.

Even mundane items, used creatively and appropriately can give the character other options and win the respect of the rest of the party as a valued and useful member.

[Segev]

One trick she can use to be a little beefier: Get Friend Shield as a spell, or buy a pair of Rings of Shielding to put on herself and her Familiar. Use False Life, Shared with her Familiar. She's now effectively doubled the temp HP that spell gives her. (Both she and her Familiar get targeted by the spell, and now each of them takes half the damage they normally would, and the other takes the other half.)

Your paladin can do similarly with his mount, except he relies on healing himself and sharing it with the steed to double "effective healing" while pooling his hp with the steed's.

[John Longarrow]

What does her character like to do outside of combat?

Often times having a variety of "non-combat" skills like perform and profession can really add variety without taking away from party survival.

Last sorcerer I played had maxed ranks in perform (woodwind) and was treated more like a bard by locals than anything else. Wound up getting us a base of operation and patron by performing at a select local tavern, plus gave us a really fun reason to show up ANYWHERE. Why sneak in/bluff your way in to see the prince when you can get invited? Also having about a +20 to perform at 11th level ain't bad, especially when you drop points on other types of perform for versitile performer at 12th.

Talk to your wife about what she'd like to do. Especially for out of combat interactions your character is much more than just their class.

[zingbobco000]

I'm assuming by fire specialist you mean more of a blaster type.

Well, for starters you should ask your DM if he/she allows LA buy-off (from Unearthed Arcana) this will help out your wife's tifeling a lot. Not really sure why she chose a race with aCHARISMA PENALTY!? This will allow your wife to progress faster with the penalty. If the LA buy-off is allowed pick the white dragonspawn template (I would normally say blue but your wife chose a class with a +1 LA already) from The revised bestiary of Kyrnn. You've got to be kidding with the feat choice though... If your DM doesn't allow you to retrain them that's just plain mean (I know he said no but tell them to look at what the feats do then ask if it's worth it). The point of the sorcerer is the idea that they are not supposed to be on the front lines. How she got that idea was weird, dump stat STR, d4 hit point die, only simple weapon proficiency, no armor etc... the list goes on and on. I'm assuming because she wants to be on the front that she would have a lot of touch spells, depending on what books are allowed (please say which) I would recommend Archmage (it's core) and get arcane reach. Personally touch spells aren't the best idea of SOR/WIZ spells, they are more meant for melee characters who take a caster dip. Take more long reach spells that could be blasty, which seems to be what you're wife wants. If you have more questions just quote me.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread necromancy is disfavored here.