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Worgwood
2013-09-06, 02:33 AM
Hey,

I’m starting a campaign soon which I’ll be running online with friends. (I’m using Pathfinder, though I don’t think that’s terribly relevant.) The campaign takes place on an oceanic world with no continental landmasses but many islands; a great deal of the ancient world sank following a cataclysm which occurred some time ago. The world is technologically advanced enough to allow for the existence of electronic telegraphy, flintlock weapons, arc lights, steamships, diving equipment, and a submarine.

The basic principle of the campaign is that the enlightened races of the world (you know the ones) are funding a joint venture to explore their shared history and to prevent a repeat of the last cataclysm. They all contribute resources and manpower to this quest, and the players take the role of the lead team of adventurers who will be doing things like exploring sunken ruins, charting lost isles, battling doomsday cultists, and the like.

To that end, I need advice. It’s been my plan since I started thinking of this game to have the action take place underwater as much as overland, and to have the players take the role of state-sponsored heroes rather than a ragtag bunch of misfits who stumble into the plot. This means that they’ll not only have authority over (though not captaincy of) the aforementioned submarine but also its crew of marines, scholars, and engineers, as well as the ability to call for reinforcements.

My problem is twofold. First, I’ve never run a game which has taken place underwater before. I’m not sure how to handle the mechanics of underwater adventuring, and I’d like for the game to have more depth than “raid sunken temple; recover maguffin”. The overplot I have no real issue with; what’s really troubling me is thinking up the sorts of things a band of roving treasure hunters can do underwater besides the classic dungeon crawl, and the sorts of environments in which they might take place.

Secondly, I’m not sure how to handle the player’s retinue – I’d like for them to have an involved presence in what they do but I don’t want them to overshadow the heroes or to slow down combat by following them directly into battle. I've been inspired in this regard by Warcraft 3's campaign, but I'm not quite sure how to reconcile the support being useful with their being unobtrusive in a tabletop environment.

Anyway, any advice, ideas, information, or tips would be useful (if it seems relevant, there's a good chance I'll get stuck on it later). Thanks!

Hopeless
2013-09-06, 03:09 AM
Hmm well if some settings can have cities floating in the clouds nothing says you can't have domed cities on the bottom of the ocean right?:smallamused:

Might want to throw in something that allows water breathing on a cheaper level if you want them actually going underwater but don't want sealed cities looking out into the depths of the ocean although having them be the creation of a long forgotten race might be even more interesting if they're delving the depths of these cities and any ruins they find!:smallwink:

Brookshw
2013-09-06, 06:44 AM
Underwater cities sound interesting indeed! Intelligent underwater races control the are the party plans on searching, players need to obtain permission to pass through there territory, plenty of tasks you could chain this to. The sub breaks, have to repair in a hostile environment. Lost cultures that survived the cataclysm had divergent development. Hostile forces are planning on attacking the surface, race to warn local communities and gather allies? Some scientific expedition other than there own wants to hire them as escorts?

Not much help with the NPC bit. Flesh out a few key members you want to be the main npcs and have them act as sergeants?

Worgwood
2013-09-06, 09:49 AM
Might want to throw in something that allows water breathing on a cheaper level if you want them actually going underwater but don't want sealed cities looking out into the depths of the ocean although having them be the creation of a long forgotten race might be even more interesting if they're delving the depths of these cities and any ruins they find!:smallwink:
As to the water breathing thing, that's what the party's diving equipment is going to be for, more or less. Since the party is going to be operating for long periods underwater, they'll be given (largely) non-magical equipment which will protect them from drowning and pressure damage, with heavier versions functioning as armor if they want it.

Not quite sure what you mean about them be the creation of a long forgotten race.


Underwater cities sound interesting indeed! Intelligent underwater races control the are the party plans on searching, players need to obtain permission to pass through there territory, plenty of tasks you could chain this to. The sub breaks, have to repair in a hostile environment. Lost cultures that survived the cataclysm had divergent development. Hostile forces are planning on attacking the surface, race to warn local communities and gather allies? Some scientific expedition other than there own wants to hire them as escorts?
The underwater races bit might be difficult, since adventures in diplomacy can be frustrating if you're not actually able to traditionally communicate with with the race in question (chatting is hard underwater). Then again, if they have or develop telepathic abilities, that might be easier to overcome. The damaged sub thing is actually something I really like, though, and gives them a better reason to co-operate with natives than trying to get permission to loot in their territory.

I don't want to use the Rapture-style domed city thing, or at least not more than once; it's cool but I really want them to feel like they are in an environment which is alien to them.

Brookshw
2013-09-06, 12:27 PM
Maybe work up the environment? Underwater volcanoes, coral reefs, kelp beds (with living kelp), steal that floating mass of carnivorous seaweed from life of pie. Deep trenches with unknown creatures?

Dr. Yes
2013-09-06, 12:51 PM
As far as adventures, you've got a number of them built into the ship's mission: science excursions of all sorts (interesting rock formations, new species, lost ruins and so on), breakdowns that have to be fixed from the outside, resource shortages (green rocks (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GreenRocks) for fuel, food spoilage due to refrigeration failure) that can be solved by going out into the environment.

The retinue can serve many of the same purposes as a traditional quest hub village for your campaign. The expedition you're describing almost certainly has Library Guy, probably has Crafter Guys in the form of shipboard engineers, the Mayor who knows what's going on and delegates responsibilities, the cook as Barkeep, enlisteds as peasants, and so on. Almost anything you could do with a normal town applies to this one, including side adventures to maintain group cohesion or root out egregious violators of the social contract.

Brookshw
2013-09-06, 01:12 PM
The more I think about it the more fun this campaign idea sounds. For finding further inspiration I'd recommend reading 20,000 leagues under the sea and watching Michael Criton's Sphere & The Abyss.

SethoMarkus
2013-09-06, 02:41 PM
The more I think about it the more fun this campaign idea sounds. For finding further inspiration I'd recommend reading 20,000 leagues under the sea and watching Michael Criton's Sphere & The Abyss.

I second these suggestions.

Although you are planning on a Pathfinder campaign, I would also suggest taking a look at the 3.5 Stormwrack supplement. It goes into some detail about sub-oceanic campaigns. Though breathing under water is a big concern, and it seems you've already thought about the pressure, don't undersell the dark and solitude of deep-sea.

LawfulNifty
2013-09-07, 01:19 AM
I don't know what Pathfinder has in the way of aberrations, but I think if you're going to explore the ocean depths in a fantasy universe, you have to run into some terrible madness-inducing elder god of some sort.

As for the retinue, you can always kill them off. I've actually had two separate campaigns where the players have been the sole survivors of a military unit that had been attacked. That could be a fun break from the standard dungeon-crawl--eldritch abomination cripples the submarine and kills everyone who isn't a PC, now they have to find a way home.

Worgwood
2013-09-07, 03:14 AM
I don't know what Pathfinder has in the way of aberrations, but I think if you're going to explore the ocean depths in a fantasy universe, you have to run into some terrible madness-inducing elder god of some sort.

As for the retinue, you can always kill them off. I've actually had two separate campaigns where the players have been the sole survivors of a military unit that had been attacked. That could be a fun break from the standard dungeon-crawl--eldritch abomination cripples the submarine and kills everyone who isn't a PC, now they have to find a way home.
To clarify, I do actually want the party to have their retinue - the idea is for them to feel like they're in charge of something important, not a ragtag team thrown together by circumstance. The problem I'm having is thinking of how to use the NPCs in a way in which the party can see they're getting practical scholarly and military support, without downplaying their roles as the heroes and without draining precious playtime.

You can count on my including an Eldritch Abomination, though. Actually, I'm fairly sure I'm required by contract, as a nerd, to include one.


Although you are planning on a Pathfinder campaign, I would also suggest taking a look at the 3.5 Stormwrack supplement. It goes into some detail about sub-oceanic campaigns. Though breathing under water is a big concern, and it seems you've already thought about the pressure, don't undersell the dark and solitude of deep-sea.
I hadn't even thought of that. Thank you, I'll look into Stormwrack.


As far as adventures, you've got a number of them built into the ship's mission: science excursions of all sorts (interesting rock formations, new species, lost ruins and so on), breakdowns that have to be fixed from the outside, resource shortages (green rocks (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GreenRocks) for fuel, food spoilage due to refrigeration failure) that can be solved by going out into the environment.

The retinue can serve many of the same purposes as a traditional quest hub village for your campaign. The expedition you're describing almost certainly has Library Guy, probably has Crafter Guys in the form of shipboard engineers, the Mayor who knows what's going on and delegates responsibilities, the cook as Barkeep, enlisteds as peasants, and so on. Almost anything you could do with a normal town applies to this one, including side adventures to maintain group cohesion or root out egregious violators of the social contract.
This is actually all really useful - particularly the bit about thinking of the submarine as the traditional "quest town" and associated resources/troubles. I do want the heroes to have more than behind-the-scenes support, though; at the moment I'm thinking they can have their redshirts follow them at a distance to do things like secure their finds and carry back their loot. That feels somewhat thin to me, though.


Maybe work up the environment? Underwater volcanoes, coral reefs, kelp beds (with living kelp), steal that floating mass of carnivorous seaweed from life of pie. Deep trenches with unknown creatures?
Also all good ideas - haven't read Life of Pi, but the carnivorous seaweed gives me ideas all the same. I have the imagine in my head of an amorphous mass eating the ship's hull.