What Do You Think About the Ring of Elemental Command?

[Gorfnod]

In order to settle a discussion between a friend and myself I would like to post a few questions with as little bias as possible. I have also posted a portion of the Pathfinder character wealth by level table below as reference.

1.At the listed price of 200,000 gp, are the Rings of Elemental Command appropriately priced?

2. If not, what price (higher or lower) do you think is more in line with their abilities?

3. Based on the wealth by level table a character would have to spend all of their wealth at level 15 to afford one of these rings and realistically would not have one until 18-20. Does this seem appropriate to you?

4. If not, what level do you believe these rings should be available for player use?

5. Has anyone ever had one of these rings “break” a game?

6. Any other comments you have about the Rings or stories about them in game would be appreciated.

Character Wealth by Level
{table=head]Level|Pathfinder
15|240,000 gp
16|315,000 gp
17|410,000 gp
18|530,000 gp
19|685,000 gp
20|880,000 gp [/table]

Thank you for your responses.

[Segev]

I generally think, like most items with varied uses and that can do "fun" stuff, they're grossly overpriced. But I am not really able to say where I would price them.

They strike me as something meant to be handed out at 13th-16th level, and not have their "true power" discovered until 15th-17th level. Possibly even have them unlock new powers over the course of a few levels.

[Der_DWSage]

You know, I can't recall a single time I've ever had one of those rings. I suspect they're one of the less-used items out of the core rulebook.

That being said...giving them a closer look, you can break down their greatest strengths pretty easily.

1)Protection from one type of Elemental. Mildly snazzy, but incredibly circumstantial.
2)Potential to Charm Monster said elemental at the cost of giving up your protection. Even more circumstantial.
3)Automatic bypass of DR of one type of elemental, as well as some minor bonuses. Mildly snazzy, still pretty circumstantial.
4)A boatload of useful spells.

So, points 1-3? It's nice, but hardly something I'd kill for. If you were to drop the spells from it, I'd argue that it's worth about 15% of a 15th level character's WBL. It's circumstantial, but it's incredibly strong during those circumstances, and potentially gamebreaking if your game revolves around elementals of one type or another.

As for the spells...well, that varies from type to type, but they honestly seem to be good-even for a high level character. At-will Meld With Stone allows someone to pull off crazy ambushes, as we've seen in OotS. The ring of Water is probably the weakest out of the ones listed, so I'm honestly torn. It's not more than a 15th level party can handle, especially one with any kind of Mage already there.

At worst, I'd say take the 'this ring does not achieve it's full power until conditions are met' to another level, and have them unlock each individual spell. Before it's unlocked, I'd eyeball it to being 35-50k, depending on the ring. (Ring of Fire Resistance is mostly what catches my eye there.) After it's fully unlocked, it's worth every penny of that 200k price tag.

[Chronos]

Rings of Elemental Command are difficult to price well, since they're really powerful, but they're also a single item. If you have use for all of their abilities, they're great... But if you don't, you could probably have gotten more things you want from a bunch of separate items, for the same cost.

[CapnZapp]

Returning to this subject in the age of 5th edition:

While the rings have changed between editions, it still appears useful to note that Sane Magical Prices puts a market price of 17,000 gp for the fire ring (and twice that for the most expensive one, the air ring).

My point would simply be to agree, that yes, they appear incredibly over-priced at 200,000 gold. :smallsmile:

[Fizban]

The thing about those big super expensive items is that you can't evaluate them and single-character items. They're from an earlier age when parties were parties and one big magic thing was considered a boost to everyone. So drop the expected level by a couple to reflect the price being split four ways, because the item is being leveraged to benefit the whole party (probably from the finger of whoever has the least to do with their actions and no need for both their ring slots).

The actual effects of the rings vary wildly. They all protect the wearer from their particular elemental, which is certainly useful to put on a squishy in a themed dungeon or known combat scenario, or you can put it on the weapon user to leverage the attack bonus and DR bypass. The potential ability to charm an entire army isn't much for PCs, but could easily drive a plot.

But it's the spells that are the bigguns of course. The most significant effect of Air is Wind Wall at-will, and that's not very significant. Daily Wind Walk and high cl Resist Energy on self are nice, but not nearly worth the total price. The Air ring lives or dies by how useful Wind Wall and the direct elemental interactions fare.

Basically every effect on the Earth ring is useful. Spamming Soften Earth and Stone lets you clear stone more easily on a large scale. Meld Into Stone lets you hide and be safe in a way that requires Detect Magic and wall smashing to beat. Two Stone Shapes per day is BFC and wall hax, plus a full Wall of Stone once a day. Stoneskin once a week without component is great for anyone, and Passwall twice per week is enough to put a big dent in that week's worth of wall problems. Formula price for all these is gonna be pretty dang high, it's probably worth it.

Fire is a bunch of attacks, mostly per day, and higher fire resist. Flaming Sphere and Burning Hands are really too minor for this level. This one turns a dude into a boss, but isn't great for adventurers.

Water's biggest thing is Water Breathing, followed by Water Walking, both effects that have dropped in price dramatically over time. Water Walking is notable in that it works on a bunch of non-water terrain problems, but Wall of Ice and Ice Storm are outdated, and Control Water is basically just "let people get past a low water obstacle" or "turn a puddle into a room full of water to mess with people if you've got enough cl."

Edit: And once again I fail to notice "new" thread on first page is actually necro'd thread. It's even got a broken table in the OP, it's right there! Sigh.

[DeTess]

Returning to this subject in the age of 5th edition:

While the rings have changed between editions, it still appears useful to note that Sane Magical Prices puts a market price of 17,000 gp for the fire ring (and twice that for the most expensive one, the air ring).

My point would simply be to agree, that yes, they appear incredibly over-priced at 200,000 gold. :smallsmile:

But what should a ring of thread necromancy cost?

(Don't answer this, it's just a headsup that this is a 5 year old thread)

[CapnZapp]

And once again I fail to notice "new" thread on first page is actually necro'd thread. It's even got a broken table in the OP, it's right there! Sigh.

Well, at least I gave you a heads-up... :smallsmile:


Returning to this subject in the age of 5th edition:

Anyway...

The thing about those big super expensive items is that you can't evaluate them and single-character items. They're from an earlier age when parties were parties and one big magic thing was considered a boost to everyone. So drop the expected level by a couple to reflect the price being split four ways, because the item is being leveraged to benefit the whole party (probably from the finger of whoever has the least to do with their actions and no need for both their ring slots).
I don't think it's reasonable to assume these rings are "party rings". They're hideously expensive for what they do, no matter who stands to benefit. And too much of what you do gain benefits the wearer much more than anybody else.

My point here was simply: look at 5E as confirmation these rings were overpriced back in d20.

[CapnZapp]

But what should a ring of thread necromancy cost?

(Don't answer this, it's just a headsup that this is a 5 year old thread)
Here you are, have a cookie