From Whence Gods Come

[Ruethgar]

Is there a book that addresses the origin or the ascension of gods? Spells and Spellcraft has rules for small gods, but although Legend and Lairs books generally have very good stuff, I was hoping for an official source.

[Psyren]

In D&D, you become a god when you get a divine rank, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#divineRanks) but actually getting one is generally a matter of plot rather than crunch.

[Maginomicon]

Fiendish Codex II talks about the Pact Primeval (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/lords-of-darkness/wikis/the-pact-primeval).

[Ruethgar]

So, if I become immortal(wedded to history or elan) and have heroic stats(-.- every PC in the game ever pretty much) I technically qualify for divine rank 0? That seems way too easy. Be a diplomancing sorcerer for rank 5, woohoo.

Edit: I think for this I'll go with the small gods bit from Spells and Spellcraft. Need 100 worshipers and CR 5 to be a god able to support a single level 1 priest. That at least delays divinity until after level 1.

[Psyren]

So, if I become immortal(wedded to history or elan) and have heroic stats(-.- every PC in the game ever pretty much) I technically qualify for divine rank 0?

Uh... no. You can become immortal and extremely powerful, but none of that gets you a divine rank. Only another deity (read: the DM) can bestow one.

There are shenanigans like Ice Assassin that can maybe do this but you'll likely get a DMG upside your skull for trying.

[skyth]

Uh... no. You can become immortal and extremely powerful, but none of that gets you a divine rank. Only another deity (read: the DM) can bestow one.

Then where did the first deity come from?

[Psyren]

Then where did the first deity come from?

DM fiat, basically.

[Coidzor]

Then where did the first deity come from?

Depends upon the creation myth, and even then they're probably pulling the wool over your eyes. Powers don't like mortals knowing too much about them, and they don't want any more immortal players than already know to find out either.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Then where did the first deity come from?

Your options

1] The creation myths of each pantheon are how they came along.Mechnically it could anything from being descended from over-gods to "Screw the rules im a God"

2] Use the goofy as hell Immortals Handbook

3] Reject infinite regress

[Slipperychicken]

Then where did the first deity come from?

Leave it as a mystery in the setting, but let several theories and ideas exist (a successful Knowledge check returns these). It leaves the setting with more wonder and discovery when some things aren't known. If you want to go all-out RAW, set the Knowledge DC as high as you wish to reflect the impossibility of knowing it for sure.

[Anadoru]

According to Elder Evils, they were created by Atropus, also referred to as the prime mover. There's no explanation as to where he comes from, though from the Aquinas reference I assume the Cosmological Argument is successful in D&D.

[Eldonauran]

See my spoiler for a my general idea on how the whole thing works: where do the gods come from, why is it this way and for what purpose does it all serve?

The creation myth I use for all of my games is the same. All the 'gods' were created by the First, the 'Overfather' (to borrow from Faerun), to oversee the workings of the universe. When a god grows weary and decides to slumber, a new one is appointed in their place. This is highly subject to DM oversight, as they get to choose when the powers align just right to grant a divine rank. I always make sure that there is only so much 'divine power' up for grabs that increasing your divine rank to higher than 0 results in a loss of power for another deity and creates animosity of some level between them and you. Othertimes, it is a deity that is moving towards slumber and welcomes the rest.

As for the origin of the 'First', I decided that the universe isn't just a thing. It is a multitude of things, a multiverse, large enough that it is self-aware to some extent. The 'First' is nothing more than the incarnation of the the universe's Avatar in the current reality it choose to manifest within. The whole system, mortals, gods, struggling, power and death is a cycle created by the universe to perpetuate its own existence and reward the parts of itself that succeed. The universe exists in an hostile enviroment and through the energies created with life and death, it can keep surviving.

Positive energy is the life force and 'soul' of the universe (this is why it is good and why it can utterly destroy living creatures because it is too much for one small vessel to contain). Negative energy is the vacume of nothing-ness that exists outside of the universe, serving to break down the very fabric that holds it together (this is it why it is evil). Fire, electricity, cold and acid, merely means in which the universe shapes itself to create and destroy pieces of itself that are needed or no longer desired. Divine magic is the gods will working alongside mortals to shape the world as they see fit. Divine magic of the natural sort, ie druids, is merely the local flora and fauna supplying energy to the caster to further its own agenda. Arcane magic is a direct alteration of the universe's fabric, responding to the wishs of the user, as though it was the universe itself.

As for the whole, Good vs Evil and the Law vs Chaos, thing. The universe is always striving to optimize its ability to survive. Perfect Good and Perfect Law lead to stagnation. Perfect Evil and Perfect Chaos lead to destruction. By allowing all to exist simultaneously, the universe allows for a perfect blend of highly reactive elements that drive the engine that maintains its existence. If the balance ever tips to one side, the universe can step in and nudge it back the other way.

The system allows the universe to be cold, uncaring, passive and irrational. Yet, at the same time, the universe does desires intensely to survive, reveals that it does care, reacts when the need calls for it and is highly logical.