Immunity to Charm

[GeekGirl]

Hi all. More for reference then an actual build, how would you get Immunity to Charm? What level would be reasonable for a PC get it.

[Fouredged Sword]

Starting at level 1, getting better from there (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm)

[Asrrin]

Hi all. More for reference then an actual build, how would you get Immunity to Charm? What level would be reasonable for a PC get it.

Charm is a mind affecting enchantment. Elves are immune, Fey are immune, Undead, oozes, plants, outsiders are all immune. Any item, race, feat, or class that grants these subtypes will give you immunity.

Low level, a Protection from Law/Chaos/Good/Evil will protect you from charm effects from the respective alignment.

High level, Mind Blank grants total immunity.

[Segev]

Er, no, elves are NOT immune. They are immune to sleep. Not all mind-affecting enchantments.

[Psyren]

Elves are immune, Fey are immune,

Not sure where you got this from. Elves are only immune to (magical) Sleep, which isn't even a Charm.

Outsiders can be Charmed as well.

[Fouredged Sword]

Protection from X applies to ALL charm effects regardless or the caster. That is a separate effect from the AC bonus (which IS dependent on alignment)

[Asrrin]

Yikes, sorry. I was confusing the immunity to sleep with the + to saves on enchantments. I apologize for the mistake.

And as far as the protection spells, I didn't realize that the clause for mind affecting spells was separate from the clause for being of an alignment.

[Psyren]

Protection from X applies to ALL charm effects regardless or the caster. That is a separate effect from the AC bonus (which IS dependent on alignment)

Note that Pathfinder changed this - the charm/compulsion protection is alignment-dependent in PF. Thus, TN is the best alignment for a PF Enchanter.

[Fouredged Sword]

Most magicmart merchants in my settings deal with customers while standing is a permenant magic circle VS chaos for just that reason. When dealing for the cost of a 10000gp item, one takes percations to not be charmed.

Also many merchants are clergy of the god of merchants. Low level cloistered clerics make great NPC merchants.

[Asteron]

I'll note that Protection from X specifically states that it only protects from Enchantment [Compulsion] effects that attempt to posses the wielder or exert ongoing control over the subject. It does specifically call out Charm and Dominate, it doesn't protect from Confusion or other non-possesing or non-controlling spells.

Edit: Church Inquisitor also grants complete immunity to Charm at level 2 or 3 and Compulsion later on.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'll note that Protection from X specifically states that it only protects from Enchantment [Compulsion] effects that attempt to posses the wielder or exert ongoing control over the subject. It does specifically call out Charm and Dominate, it doesn't protect from Confusion or other non-possesing or non-controlling spells.

Edit: Church Inquisitor also grants complete immunity to Charm at level 2 or 3 and Compulsion later on.

Confusion has the [Compulsion] descriptor so it is blocked by Protection from X.

[Psyren]

Confusion has the [Compulsion] descriptor so it is blocked by Protection from X.

This is debatable - confusion is a compulsion but it doesn't grant "ongoing control." It doesn't grant any control at all; the subject's actions are chosen randomly.

[Asteron]

Confusion has the [Compulsion] descriptor so it is blocked by Protection from X.

As Psyren already said, it doesn't block ALL [Compulsion] spells, just ones that grant control. The wording does matter there.

[ArcturusV]

Exactly. Immunity to charm is actually harder to get than people realize. Mindblank, sure. But at that level things like Disjunction bombs are being used as well if you want to enchant someone first for that very reason. And to limit their ability to counter attack if you fail.

Then again if your DM is using Charm ____ on players that's usually not a good sign and probably something you should talk to him/her about. It's like having NPCs use diplomacy on you. Which the book clearly says you shouldn't. Why should charm be any different since the reasons for blanket diplomacy immunity directly relate to what charm _____ does?

[Psyren]

Charm on PCs isn't that bad actually - you need the Charisma check to make them do anything they wouldn't normally do, and you can rarely get them to turn against each other. I forget where I read the example, but a Dryad who charmed a PC wouldn't be able to get that PC to fight his comrades unless there was already bad blood between them. Basically, for the charmed PC it would be more like if two of your best friends started fighting - you might wring your hands and yell for them to stop, or try to throw yourself between them or wrestle them apart, but you wouldn't actually attack anyone with lethal force.

It's dispellable too, so it's really no worse than any other condition like Daze or Paralysis.

[Fable Wright]

Shape Soulmeld (Planar Ward) is basically the same as protection from Evil, but is on 24/7 and doesn't require a custom item. Throwing it out there just in case.

[Piggy Knowles]

Shape Soulmeld (Enigma Helm) + Open Least Chakra. Two feats will do the trick by 6th level, although you'll want to retrain the feats when you get to he high enough level to have Mind Blank up at all times.

[ArcturusV]

Might be a personal thing. I don't like effects that tell a player how their character feels about anything. It's one of the few thing a player has, no matter what. I geas them? They can still grumble, complain, and do things more or less how they want to. Charm? That's me telling them how to play their characters generally. I can't "force" them to do things necessarily. But I can tell them how they think and feel because of it. Which strikes me as wrong. Least for the narrative/story based play.

[Segev]

The reason Diplomacy doesn't work on PCs is because it is supposed to be a "natural" thing. You're not getting them to act "weird;" you're honestly persuading them. D&D wants players to have to be persuaded OOC that their characters SHOULD be persuaded IC before the PCs are persuaded. Thus, no Diplomacy on PCs.

Charm, on the other hand, is magic. It says, "you like this person now." It's also temporary, generally speaking. In short, it's a game effect usable on the PCs to complicate their conflicts, as opposed to an ongoing genuine statement about what PCs think and feel "for real."

I don't fully agree with this line, mind, but that's the line being drawn. And it is a sensible, if not necessarily good, one. So it works. Charm works on PCs, because it's magic and it's warping their normal behavior. Diplomacy does not, because Diplomacy is not magic and ... well, DM charisma matters here, not critter-charisma.

[Psyren]

I geas them? They can still grumble, complain, and do things more or less how they want to.

Actually, they can't - reread Geas. The penalties and stuff are only if they're physically prevented from doing what you demand that they do - If nothing is stopping them, then they do in fact have to perform the task.


While a geas cannot compel a creature to kill itself or perform acts that would result in certain death, it can cause almost any other course of activity.

The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes.

The instructions do have to be pretty airtight - "a clever recipient can subvert them" after all - but if they are, there is no choice in the matter.


Charm? That's me telling them how to play their characters generally. I can't "force" them to do things necessarily. But I can tell them how they think and feel because of it. Which strikes me as wrong. Least for the narrative/story based play.

This is actually not as bad if you think about it. The NPC becomes a dear friend, but the player chooses how their character treats dear friends, not you, as well as what constitutes ordinary behavior for them. For instance, Haley is friends with the Order, but still hides many things from them - so someone charming her would have to win the Charisma check to get her to tell any secrets, simply because she is normally a secretive person even with her friends. (Whereas someone compelling/dominating her could just force her to spill the beans.)

So there is still some amount of player agency.

[ArcturusV]

I meant if they are geased, it doesn't really change the characters. They're still them. They may not like it. They may complain about it. But they'll do it. Probably in whatever manner they feel like as characters.

[Psyren]

I meant if they are geased, it doesn't really change the characters. They're still them. They may not like it. They may complain about it. But they'll do it. Probably in whatever manner they feel like as characters.

Actually, If you specify the manner, they have to carry it out that way - regardless of their character's wishes or normal way of doing things. So you can geas a gunslinger to stab someone to death etc.

[Karnith]

I haven't seen it mentioned, so I may as well point out that immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities (of which Charm effects are examples) is available for the price of two feats, if you're evil. Deformity (Madness) is a Vile feat that grants the immunity (and a 1/minute bonus on Will saves) in exchange for -4 Wisdom. It requires Willing Deformity, another Vile feat.

[Sith_Happens]

If you're cool with being a Necropolitan then there's that too.

[bekeleven]

Druid 5 (or other qualifier) / Master of Many Forms 7. Wild shape into plant, get plant immunities. Other types available on request.

[Cruiser1]

how would you get Immunity to Charm?
Half-Fey: One thing that makes this template stronger than most +2 LA's is it gains "immunity to enchantment spells and effects". Like Mind Blank that means complete immunity to the entire school. Better yet it's an extraordinary special quality, so you're still immune even if you get Disjunctioned.

[GeekGirl]

Then again if your DM is using Charm ____ on players that's usually not a good sign

Its nothing like that, a friend and I were discussing ways to get permanent immunity and what level would be reasonable for a character to get it.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Druid 5 (or other qualifier) / Master of Many Forms 7. Wild shape into plant, get plant immunities. Other types available on request.

You can wildshape into a plant and gain the extraordinary abilities as early as level 7 with the Enhance Wild Shape (SpC) spell.