Piggy Knowles
2013-09-07, 12:08 PM
NOTE: Players in the Celestial Spheres: Tales of Kadur campaign should please, please stay out of this topic.
That means Venger, Viscount, Kymme, Amidus and Morcleon, please stay out!
...
So, I had a few questions regarding Forced Dream. (Spoiled in case of accidental clicks by players in my current campaign.)
As an aside - yes, I am well aware of the many abuses this power presents. I'll be using this as a DM, with a very specific use, not as a save-game state or any other similar use.
1. Does the user of Forced Dream recall what happened during the "dream state" after everything is reset? In other words, if the target of Forced Dream chooses to restart her turn, does she remember what happened during the turn that was restarted? Or does that disappear from her memory?
2. Is there any possible way to take something back from a Forced Dream? Assume unlimited resources and anything short of epic magic or powers. Assume giant vats of quintessence are available, and extraordinarily high-ML powers like Time Hop and similar.
3. I'd like to make Forced Dream a more level-appropriate power. I don't want to hard ban it or make it epic, especially because it is going to have a use in my campaign, but I think it's ridiculous as a third level power. What would a more appropriate power level be for it?
4. For anyone who read the long explanation in the next spoiler, are there any holes you can pick in this plan? Any obvious work-arounds that I should close up now, while the PCs are still far away from the truth of things?
Here is the scenario, for any interested:
The campaign takes place in a universe where there originally was no "magic." Each world was its own celestial sphere, moving through the ether, and each sphere was its own universe or plane with its own set of rules and laws. Several millenia prior, two of these celestial spheres collided and began to bleed into each other. This is the origin of magic - there are essentially two worlds, each with its own rules and physical laws, living atop each other. Magic is the art of manipulating the other world to have an effect on this one that would otherwise be impossible.
After the collision, things originally bled two ways, this universe bleeding into the other and vice versa. This universe became unstable as a result, and an ancient society created pillars that stabilized the bleed and essentially made it one-way - this universe is basically draining power from the universe that is set atop it. Though it means the death of the other universe (called Gloriana, basically this campaign setting's version of the Feywilds), it also means the life of this one.
That same society was worried that the power they learned in order to save this world would one day be used to siphon power from other spheres and other universes. This act they did as an act of survival, but they worried that their magics would one day be used not for survival, but for the seeking of power and strength. So, they hid their knowledge, and they created six "dreamers" that would act as the world's protection.
These dreamers are high-level members of their order, called the Shining Brethren, who were hidden throughout the world at different points in time. These people then manifested Forced Dream and were placed in pools of quintessence, and hidden in ancient temples that would require incredible magical ability to penetrate. If this world ever rediscovered the power they possessed, they would wake the dreamers, resetting the world to an earlier state.
They also buried rumors that these temples were actually homes to ancient and powerful artifacts. This way, even if their order perished in the interim, if mankind ever grew powerful enough to breach the temples and their greed brought them there to recover the fabled artifacts, they would inadvertently wake the dreamers, who would then reset time to before they learned of this power.
The BBEG of this campaign was once a member of one of the outer orders of the Shining Brethren who sought immortality. He eventually discovered a form of sorts, but it warped and corrupted him, and he lived by possessing the bodies of others. It drove him mad, and he was cast from the order, but not before discovering the truth of the dreamers. Now, after almost a thousand years, he is tired and weary of life, but cannot die. So, he seeks to wake the dreamers to a time before he became immortal, as it is the only way he can see to end his own life. For the past several hundred years, he has been possessing people of import in an effort to weaken and destroy the remaining members of the Shining Brethren, so that he can seek out the temples of the dreamers unimpeded.
The characters in this campaign have just learned of the BBEG and the existence of the Shining Brethren, although they still don't know what their purpose is, and have no idea of the real story of the dreamers yet. (The mythology of this world says that the true gods are six dreamers who sleep in the astral sea, dreaming all the worlds into existence - it is a corruption of the truth that has become a strong religious belief, but it is also oddly accurate.)
Eventually I would like them to travel to the various dreamer's temples, in an effort to protect the dreamers from Shass, the BBEG. However, I can't help but think that Shass would not want to reset the world if the same thing would happen again and again. So, I'm wondering if he would try to change the dreamers somehow, so that when they awoke, they would change the world around them. I'm trying to think of ways in which he could do this.
I'd also like to see if there are some obvious holes in this that I'm missing, either holes in the original plan of the Shining Brethren or in the BBEG's plans, that sort of thing.
Thanks, all!
That means Venger, Viscount, Kymme, Amidus and Morcleon, please stay out!
...
So, I had a few questions regarding Forced Dream. (Spoiled in case of accidental clicks by players in my current campaign.)
As an aside - yes, I am well aware of the many abuses this power presents. I'll be using this as a DM, with a very specific use, not as a save-game state or any other similar use.
1. Does the user of Forced Dream recall what happened during the "dream state" after everything is reset? In other words, if the target of Forced Dream chooses to restart her turn, does she remember what happened during the turn that was restarted? Or does that disappear from her memory?
2. Is there any possible way to take something back from a Forced Dream? Assume unlimited resources and anything short of epic magic or powers. Assume giant vats of quintessence are available, and extraordinarily high-ML powers like Time Hop and similar.
3. I'd like to make Forced Dream a more level-appropriate power. I don't want to hard ban it or make it epic, especially because it is going to have a use in my campaign, but I think it's ridiculous as a third level power. What would a more appropriate power level be for it?
4. For anyone who read the long explanation in the next spoiler, are there any holes you can pick in this plan? Any obvious work-arounds that I should close up now, while the PCs are still far away from the truth of things?
Here is the scenario, for any interested:
The campaign takes place in a universe where there originally was no "magic." Each world was its own celestial sphere, moving through the ether, and each sphere was its own universe or plane with its own set of rules and laws. Several millenia prior, two of these celestial spheres collided and began to bleed into each other. This is the origin of magic - there are essentially two worlds, each with its own rules and physical laws, living atop each other. Magic is the art of manipulating the other world to have an effect on this one that would otherwise be impossible.
After the collision, things originally bled two ways, this universe bleeding into the other and vice versa. This universe became unstable as a result, and an ancient society created pillars that stabilized the bleed and essentially made it one-way - this universe is basically draining power from the universe that is set atop it. Though it means the death of the other universe (called Gloriana, basically this campaign setting's version of the Feywilds), it also means the life of this one.
That same society was worried that the power they learned in order to save this world would one day be used to siphon power from other spheres and other universes. This act they did as an act of survival, but they worried that their magics would one day be used not for survival, but for the seeking of power and strength. So, they hid their knowledge, and they created six "dreamers" that would act as the world's protection.
These dreamers are high-level members of their order, called the Shining Brethren, who were hidden throughout the world at different points in time. These people then manifested Forced Dream and were placed in pools of quintessence, and hidden in ancient temples that would require incredible magical ability to penetrate. If this world ever rediscovered the power they possessed, they would wake the dreamers, resetting the world to an earlier state.
They also buried rumors that these temples were actually homes to ancient and powerful artifacts. This way, even if their order perished in the interim, if mankind ever grew powerful enough to breach the temples and their greed brought them there to recover the fabled artifacts, they would inadvertently wake the dreamers, who would then reset time to before they learned of this power.
The BBEG of this campaign was once a member of one of the outer orders of the Shining Brethren who sought immortality. He eventually discovered a form of sorts, but it warped and corrupted him, and he lived by possessing the bodies of others. It drove him mad, and he was cast from the order, but not before discovering the truth of the dreamers. Now, after almost a thousand years, he is tired and weary of life, but cannot die. So, he seeks to wake the dreamers to a time before he became immortal, as it is the only way he can see to end his own life. For the past several hundred years, he has been possessing people of import in an effort to weaken and destroy the remaining members of the Shining Brethren, so that he can seek out the temples of the dreamers unimpeded.
The characters in this campaign have just learned of the BBEG and the existence of the Shining Brethren, although they still don't know what their purpose is, and have no idea of the real story of the dreamers yet. (The mythology of this world says that the true gods are six dreamers who sleep in the astral sea, dreaming all the worlds into existence - it is a corruption of the truth that has become a strong religious belief, but it is also oddly accurate.)
Eventually I would like them to travel to the various dreamer's temples, in an effort to protect the dreamers from Shass, the BBEG. However, I can't help but think that Shass would not want to reset the world if the same thing would happen again and again. So, I'm wondering if he would try to change the dreamers somehow, so that when they awoke, they would change the world around them. I'm trying to think of ways in which he could do this.
I'd also like to see if there are some obvious holes in this that I'm missing, either holes in the original plan of the Shining Brethren or in the BBEG's plans, that sort of thing.
Thanks, all!