Possible Skills and Equipment for Dwarven Brewer/Alchemist? (PF)

[Zach J.]

Tonight is the first session of a friend's mythic Pathfinder game. The PCs are starting out as NPCs. We'll each have to take an NPC class (either Commoner or Expert and we lose the light armor proficiency). We've got 50 gp to spend on anything that might help us on a long hike except for weapons or armor.

Anyway, I'm planning on making a dwarf brewer turned alchemist. My first level will be in expert, but I'm at a loss as to what 10 skills to choose as class skills. I've got Appraise, Craft: Alchemy, Knowledge: Local, Perception and Profession: Brewer, but after that I'm stuck. Any suggestions?

[Humble Master]

Diplomacy, you need to be able to talk rowdy drunks out of causing trouble.

Also, you might want to put [PF] tag in the title so people know this is a Pathfinder thread.

[Zach J.]

Thanks.

I've added Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate and Sleight of Hand. That leaves one skill open.

[Humble Master]

Sleight of Hand is a good one. Helps when you're dealing with miserly adventurers who think that just because they have weapons they don't have to pay for your beer.:smallwink:
Maybe just pick another useful skill and fluff it as a hobby of your character's.

[Zach J.]

That's a good idea. I think I'll give him a Perform skill or maybe Sense Motive and be done with it.

[shortround]

I would suggest taking Sense Motive, but trying to sing anyways. I feel like there can be a lot of fun in singing dwarven drinking songs while also having an awful singing voice.

[Humble Master]

If your DM allows it Autohypnosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/autohypnosis.htm) would be a great skill to have. Bonus points for fluffing it at the result of a nervous system that be endured years of alcoholic abuse.

[Zach J.]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Another question...

I'll be taking the Brewmaster feat which in addition to giving me +2 to Craft: Alchemy and Profession: Brewer adds +1 to the DCs of any ingested poisons I create. I'd like to be able to use this ability, but is poison use considered evil in Pathfinder?

Might as well hijack my own thread and list what equipment I've bought so far. Looking for gear that will be helpful on a journey of ten days or more.

Backpack (2 lbs.)
Bedroll (5 lbs.)
Winter Blanket (3 lbs.)
Hip Flask filled with 4 shots of Whiskey (3 lbs.)
10 Days' Trail Rations (10 lbs.)
5 Waterskins (20 lbs.)
Small Tent (20 lbs.)
Flint and Steel
Fishing Kit (3 lbs.)
Mess Kit (1 lb.)
Soap (0.5 lb.)
5 Torches (5 lbs.)
Wooden Holy Symbol of Cayden Cailean
5 doses of Alchemist's Kindness
Artisan's Outfit (4 lbs. when not worn)
Cold-Weather Outfit (7 lbs. when not worn)
Tankard (1 lb.)
Clay Jug filled with 1 gallon of Ale (9 lbs.)

2 gp, 10 sp, 6 cp left to spend

Does it looks like that covers everything?

[Zonugal]

Are you sure you need three different outfits?

Also if your Dwarven Brewer (which is a great character to play by the way) is going hiking perhaps outfitting him with some brief fishing supplies could be handy.

[Zach J.]

The artisan's outfit is what he wears on the job and he may not take it with him (it's the one I got for free). He'll be wearing the traveler's outfit for most of the journey and the cold-weather outfit when necessary. The DM has told us the weather in the surrounding area is similar to that in northern Canada. I replaced his Darkvision with Surface Survivalist (His family was ostracized from dwarven society for sharing brewing secrets with non-dwarves and he's never actually been in a mine, tunnel, cave, etc.) which will negate some of the effects of cold weather, but not all.

Would it make more sense to forgo the traveler's outfit and wear the cold-weather outfit full time?

The fishing idea is a great idea, thank you.

[Zach J.]

Are there any archetypes that would work for a master brewer type character? I want my future alchemist to focus more on potions than anything else.

[avr]

The chirurgeon archetype fits if you want to be a nice guy and heal people with your extracts. From the sound of the start of this the DM may be aiming for a gritty campaign, which implies that wands of CLW may not be available.

Alternately, the beastmorph archetype focuses on your mutagen which is a sort of potion. Not compatible with chirurgeon.

BTW, definitely keep one change of clothes in your equipment if you're traveling thru a Canadaoid land.

[Vizzerdrix]

Are you allowed anything from 3.5? If so I'm rather sure I've seen a feat that lets poison heal you, and I know Arms and Equipment Guide has a portable brewery device (fits in a backpack with room to spare).

[Zach J.]

Thanks for the advice, but we won't be allowed to use anything from 3.5. I doubt we'll find any wands. The DM's not big on magical treasure in general unless it's in the form of weapons, armor or wondrous items. Any healing will come from a class with healing abilities. Technically, we could make our own scrolls, wands, etc., but most games I've played in haven't had a lot of down time for characters.

So the first session was...interesting. Abilities were rolled using 4d6. I wound up with Str 13, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 20, Wis 15, Cha 8. However, until we get our first level in a PC class our ability scores are halved. Most of the session was spent with the party running away from a bevy of shadows, skeletons, demons (there's at least one Balor that's headed towards Mendev and he lent a fairly large force of hezrou to aid a red dragon) and devils (There was a lengthy chase scene where we were pursued by a bone devil that wanted to make us its slaves.) while a mythic red dragon battled a tarrasque. Actually, that was the entire session. Our dm would describe these terribly powerful monsters coming across us, then ask us what we do even though the answer was always run away. I think I rolled more 1's in this session than I have in the last 20. It was pretty frustrating.

The Party:
Rogar: Chaotic Good Male Dwarf Expert (Brewer), future Alchemist
Keith: Lawful Good Male Human Expert (Blacksmith), future Fighter
Terry: Neutral Good Male Human Expert (Locksmith), future Rogue
Rox: Lawful Neutral Male Half-Orc Expert (Horse Breeder), future Cavalier
Tordek: Neutral Good Male Half-Orc Commoner (Lumberjack), future Fighter
Saphira: Chaotic Good Female Elf Commoner (Bowyer), future Ranger
Vanya: Neutral Good Female Elf Expert (Midwife), future Cleric
Garrett: Lawful Good Male Human Expert (Butcher), future Paladin

There's a lot of us, but two players won't be at every session.

I've been thinking about what I want to do with my character once he's actually an alchemist (mostly because if I focus on how lame our characters are right now I get really sad). I know that I'll want to take the Infusion discovery as soon as possible because the future cleric is one of the players who will not be appearing at every session, but other than that I'm not sure. As far as feats, I've got Brewmaster right now and will be taking Master Alchemist at 5th level. My 3rd level feat is up in the air (Maybe Toxic Recovery?). As far as formulaes go, I have no idea. Ideally, I'd like to be able to make extracts and potions that can benefit the party as well as myself. Anything that can be fluffed as stemming from my potent alcoholic brews is a plus. These potions will require fortitude saves to avoid becoming tipsy. ;)

[Psyren]

I would have as little overlap between your Expert skills and your Alchemist skills as possible. Basically in PF, "once a class skill always a class skill" so even having something as a class skill for only one level and putting a single point in will get you the class skill benefits for life.

Craft: Alchemy is handy at first level so you can brew up some projectiles and justify your choice of career, and Perception is useful for everybody, but since Alchemists already get Heal, Appraise and Sleight of Hand I would probably hold off on those until you start taking Alchemist levels. That should free you up for more useful skills like Acrobatics, Disguise, Linguistics, Stealth and Survival.

UMD is also a good one for anybody to have. You can get this from Alchemist levels too but it can be handy before you enter Alchemist too.

[Zach J.]

Thanks for the advice, but since we've already played and I won't be able to change my skill choices. I was only able to take 6 of them with my halved Intelligence. It's a 10 until I get my first level of Alchemist and I won't be getting any retroactive skill points.

Plus, I had to take skills I could justify having as a brewer. The DM would most likely not have okayed stuff like Acrobatics, Disguise or Stealth. Definitely not Stealth as someone else tried to take it and was shot down.

Not to mention that for the time being I doubt I'm actually allowed to make any alchemical items. There's likely to be little down time. Again, thanks everyone for the suggestions, but I doubt this game will last very long at the rate it's going...

[Occasional Sage]

Thanks for the advice, but since we've already played and I won't be able to change my skill choices. I was only able to take 6 of them with my halved Intelligence. It's a 10 until I get my first level of Alchemist and I won't be getting any retroactive skill points.

Plus, I had to take skills I could justify having as a brewer. The DM would most likely not have okayed stuff like Acrobatics, Disguise or Stealth. Definitely not Stealth as someone else tried to take it and was shot down.

Not to mention that for the time being I doubt I'm actually allowed to make any alchemical items. There's likely to be little down time. Again, thanks everyone for the suggestions, but I doubt this game will last very long at the rate it's going...

Per PF RAW, skill points are always retroactively gained when your Intelligence increases.

Also, he seems to be inversely Marty Stu'ing by showing off all the cool baddies. Did anybody ask if this is going to be the norm?

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I swear I posted here... Oh well. If you increase your Int by natural level up, uoi get retroactive skill points. Not from headbands or anything else.

From now on, maxing out Craft Alchemy is your number 1 priority. It makes you better at all the alchemist things.

[Zach J.]

So after the second session we each gained two levels making my character a Dwarf Expert 1, Alchemist 2 with 1000 gp to spend. I'm not really sure what to do with the character though. Here's what I have so far.

CG Dwarf Expert 1, Alchemist 2

ABILITIES
Str 13, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 20, Wis 15, Cha 8

SKILLS
Appraise +9, Craft: Alchemy +15, Diplomacy +3, Heal +8, Intimidate +3, Knowledge: Arcana +11, Knowledge: Local +9, Knowledge: Nature +9, Linguistics +8 (Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Undercommon), Perception +8, Profession: Brewer +9, Sense Motive +8, Sleight of Hand +6, Spellcraft +11, Survival +6, Use Magic Device +5

FEATS
Brewmaster, Brew Potion, Improved Initiative or Toxic Recovery, Throw Anything

DISCOVERY
Infusion

TRAITS
Brewmaster, Fortified Drinker, Reactionary, Vain (Drawback)

EQUIPMENT
Morningstar
Dagger
Chain Shirt
Masterwork Backpack
Alchemist's Kit
Portable Alchemist's Lab
2 Potions of Cure Light Wounds
Healer's Kit
2 Doses of Drow Poison
4 Flasks of Acid
2 Flasks of Holy Water
5 Doses of Alchemist's Kindness
Everburning Torch (No darkvision for Rogar...)
Tanglefoot Bag
Silk Rope
Grappling Hook
Silver Holy Symbol Flask of Cayden Cailean
Bottle of Oldlaw Whiskey
2 Bottles of Fine Wine
5 day's Rations
Waterskin
Explorer's Outfit

10 pp, 47 gp, 14 sp, 9 cp

FORMULAE KNOWN
1 Crafter's Fortune, Cure Light Wounds, Disguise Self, Enlarge Person, Identify, Polypurpose Panacea, Shield, True Strike

[Psyren]

Max any or all of the following:

Acrobatics
Heal
Fly
Stealth
Know: Arcana
Linguistics
Sense Motive


For feats, you can never go wrong with Extra Bombs or Extra Discovery if you can't think of anything else. Improved Initiative is good too, as is Iron Will.

[Zach J.]

Thanks. I'll probably pick Improved Initiative. What about Toxic Recovery? I like it for the flavor, makes sense that a craftsman who imbibes a great deal of dangerous chemicals might have some greater resistance to poisons.

[Zach J.]

So I found an interesting alchemist build idea online that I think might be fun. Basically you take two levels in monk (master of many styles) in order to pick up kirin strike. Then you take the rest of your levels in alchemist (mindchemist). Quaff a Targeted Bomb Admixture extract, use kirin style to identify a monster, then start using your swift actions to add quadruple intelligence damage to your single target bombs.

Given that information I've made the following changes to Rogar:

CG Dwarf Expert 1, Ex-Monk 2 (Master of Many Styles)

ABILITIES
Str 13, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 20, Wis 15, Cha 8

SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Appraise +9, Craft: Alchemy +12, Diplomacy +3, Heal +6 , Intimidate +3, Knowledge: Arcana +8, Knowledge: Dungeoneering +6, Knowledge: History +9, Knowledge: Local +9, Knowledge: Nature +6, Knowledge: Planes +6, Knowledge: Religion +9, Linguistics +7 (Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Undercommon), Perception +8, Profession: Brewer +9, Sense Motive +8, Sleight of Hand +4, Stealth +6, Survival +6

FEATS
Brewmaster, Improved Unarmed Strike, Kirin Strike, Kirin Style, Point Blank Shot, Stunning Fist

EQUIPMENT
Light Darkwood Crossbow with 30 Bolts
Dagger

Masterwork Studded Leather
Masterwork Buckler

Ioun Torch

Monk's Outfit

Masterwork Backpack: Silk Rope, 5 Days' Trail Rations, Waterskin, Bottle of Oldlaw Whiskey

Bandolier with 4 Flasks of Alchemist's Fire

Belt Pouch with 47 gp, 5 sp

58 lbs. carried

I really wanted to retrain my level in expert for a level in alchemist and Brewmaster for Precise Shot, but the DM wouldn't allow it and said retraining will come later.

[avr]

Targeted bomb admixture is a standard action and lasts only 1 round/level. Most of the time you'll have to make do with 3x Int mod damage to your bombs. Still nice but not quite as nice.

[Zach J.]

Ah, you're right. Still, it gives me some kind of plan and like you said, plus 3x Int modifier to damage is still nice. Is the duration keyed off of my total level or just my alchemist levels?

[Andvare]

Profession Farmer, to grow your own ingredients, and in the long run, to cultivate your own special crops, to make the brew extra special.
Profession Herbalist, to get those rare herbs that will spice up the brew.

[avr]

Just Alchemist level, but if you can get traits there's Magical Knack that adds 2, to a limit of your HD (like the Practiced Spellcaster feat in 3.5). If you can't get traits directly you might ask to import the above feat from 3.5, or if you can't then take the Additional Traits feat.

[Zach J.]

Cool. I'll keep that in mind and grab Additional Traits as soon as possible. I was planning on switching out Brewmaster for Precise Shot and taking Improved Initiative afterwards.

For discoveries I was planning to take:
2 Acid Bomb or Infusion
4 Immolation Bomb
6 Breath Weapon Bomb