Pathfinder mobile damage dealer optimization

[Gryphonfg]

I am joining a new pathfinder game, starting a level three. I want to build a guy who is fast, mobile, and can dish out a lot of damage. Someone who can run through a horde of goblins and cut them all down. What would be the best race, archetype, and feats for this?

We rolled for stats, and I got some good numbers. I have a 17, 16, three 15s, and a 10 to arrange how I want them. I was thinking going high dex for the bonuses with light armor so I can avoid getting hit too much and still have full speed.

I was looking at the swordlord archetype and at higher levels that looks good. You can make AoO against people that attack you. Also, the dueling mastery feat gives some nice bonuses. The bonus to init helps the feel that I'm going for (kill them before they can hit you). I was also considering two weapon fighting for extra attacks.

Are there better ways to do this? Or more fun ways?

[Psyren]

- How much magic/psionics do you want?
- Are you set on agility or are you open to strength-based builds as well?
- How much melee vs. ranged ability do you want?
- Is your race chosen already?

[Gryphonfg]

I haven't chosen my race. I would be willing to consider a dip into a spell casting class or going magus or something if it would improve my ability. I'm not interested in range, I'll make sure one of the other guys handles that.

I was thinking about putting my 17 and 16 into strength and dex, so I would have a +3 bonus (or higher depending on the race) in both abilities, so I would have the dex for AC and init and strength for damage. I'm not really interested in the power attack-leap attack builds. I've seen them already. If you are familiar with Ian Esslemont's Crimson Guard series, I want this guy to eventually be like Rell from Return of the Crimson Guard, where he went into a room and killed four guys (I think it was 4) before they even had time to draw their swords. Of course, if the book was converted over, I think Rell had at least 10 levels on the guards, but that is the feel I'm trying to go for. I want someone that hits fast and hits hard. I would love it if I could find something like the dervish prestige class in pathfinder, so I could take a full move and make an attack against different targets.

I hope that answers your questions.

[StreamOfTheSky]

You mention Leap Attack...are any 3E sources allowed? If so, which ones?

For PF-only, I suggest the Magus class. Get an 18-20/x2 crit weapon and starting at level 5 you can give it Keen. With Spell Combat, you can cast and full attack, and Spellstrike will potentially let you do a lot of damage when you hit. When you can't full attack, move + spellstrike alone means high damage.

The mobility part comes a bit later... by combining the Bladed Dash spell (2nd level) w/ Spell combat, you are able to move 30 ft in a line without provoking AoOs, deliver a full attack, and deliver another attack for good measure. And do those 3 in any order you like. You can also spell combat with Force Hook Charge and Dimension Door, though Bladed Dash will be sufficient/better in most circumstances.


I would love it if I could find something like the dervish prestige class in pathfinder, so I could take a full move and make an attack against different targets.

There is something like that, but in true PF fashion...you have to wait much longer for the martial goodie than in 3E. Two fighter archetypes, Mobile Fighter and Dawnflower Dervish get the ability at 11th level to move and full attack, but you lose your first attack. Combine this with Whirlwind Attack (which, yes, is a full attack action) and you can run by and slice every enemy in the area except for the one you started closest to. Also don't forget Lunge feat so you can hit more people, and Dazing Assault to leave them unable to act the next turn if they survive the damage.
That's a loooooong way from level 3, though.

EDIT:

Rapid Attack (Ex)

At 11th level, a dervish can combine a full attack with a single move. She must forgo the attack at her highest bonus but may take the remaining attacks at any point during her movement. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.

This ability replaces Armor Training 3.


Rapid Attack (Ex)

At 11th level, a mobile fighter can combine a full-attack action with a single move. He must forgo the attack at his highest bonus but may take the remaining attacks at any point during his movement. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.

This ability replaces armor training 3.

[Gryphonfg]

Mobile fighter does look good. So does the kensai archetype for magus.

I mention leap attack only because I have seen that in several builds, but it is 3.5 and I think we're going pure pathfinder.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I love Mobile Fighter, but I think it got 1-2 KO punched out by nerfs to the point where it's now grossly underpowered, unfortunately.

ORIGINALLY, Leap Attack class feature only replaced Weapon Training 1, so you could end up with Weapon Training +3 *and* Leap Attack +4. People balked at this, I shrugged. Paizo reacted by making Leap Attack consume all 4 weapon trainings.

Fine, whatever.

But then...they did an FAQ specifying that weapon training replacements that largely do the same thing but aren't called "weapon training" do not qualify for the gloves of dueling, the only real fighter unique must-have item.

Which means at mid/high levels, you're down by 2 attack and damage compared to other fighters, which is fairly painful.

I would ask the DM to ignore that FAQ, pointing out that the original printing of Mobile Fighter was a) much more powerful and b) wouldn't have had this problem. And that you're not even asking for that much. It may seem like a far-off problem, but if you're seriously considering a class feature that doesn't kick on until level eleven, then inability to use a 16000 gp item is also in that level range and a concern.

[Gryphonfg]

Going back to the being level 3, what about the two-weapon warrior? I know that it eats feats like crazy, especially if you throw in exotic weapon to get something cool like the sawtooth sabre. I have the str and dex to pull it off I think. If I go human, I would have 5 feats.

1st level: exotic weapon prof
Fighter bonus 1: weapon focus
Human: two weapon defense
Fighter bonus 2: double slice
3rd level: dodge (for an extra point of AC).

I would have two attacks a turn instead of one, though it would get expensive later on to keep enchanting my weapons. I could, with a good enough roll, kill 2 goblins a turn.

Then again, for the same amount of feats, I could go swordlord and at level 3 take dueling mastery. Assuming I'm in a chain shirt, I would have a 20 AC, 30 foot move, and +5 to my initiative. That should handle the speed and mobility aspect, but I'm only doing 1d8+3 damage per round. All of that is assuming no magical enhancements.

The DM has informed me that gold and magic items will be "a little less" than normal. I guess that is something to take into consideration.

[Dissonance]

what kind of races are allowed? specifically can you take Strix as your race? As a Strix you can actually do something similar to a running whirlwind attack at a much earlier level. heres the breakdown.

Strix fighter feats.
lv 1. power attack, *flyby attack* (strix should qualify for it automatically on accounts of their fly speed, ask your DM)
lv 2. cleave
lv 3 ???
lv 4. great cleave

first, as a strix you start out fast with a 60 ft fly speed. then you can abuse that speed with flyby attack which lets you great cleave in the middle of your 60 ft moves. you can even take a reach weapon and then lunge at 6 to hit a whole horde of foes then fly away. sadly damage potential kind of shrinks at the higher levels. Unless of course you take the mobile fighter or two handed fighter archetype. either of these archetypes will shore up your lategame nicely.

[Gryphonfg]

That could be cool. He hasn't said anything about not being Strix. Hating and being hated by by most of the rest of the world could be interesting for role playing, too.

[Gryphonfg]

Strix airborne ambusher looks like it could be a cool class. 60 move does help me get up to the enemy quick. Also the dex bonus would help my init a little. I'm thinking about exotic weapon for the nodachi because it just looks cool.

In 3.5 there is the half-dragon, but I don't see a playable race in pathfinder for that. Is there something like that?

[Occasional Sage]

You mention Leap Attack...are any 3E sources allowed? If so, which ones?

For PF-only, I suggest the Magus class. Get an 18-20/x2 crit weapon and starting at level 5 you can give it Keen. With Spell Combat, you can cast and full attack, and Spellstrike will potentially let you do a lot of damage when you hit. When you can't full attack, move + spellstrike alone means high damage.

The mobility part comes a bit later... by combining the Bladed Dash spell (2nd level) w/ Spell combat, you are able to move 30 ft in a line without provoking AoOs, deliver a full attack, and deliver another attack for good measure. And do those 3 in any order you like. You can also spell combat with Force Hook Charge and Dimension Door, though Bladed Dash will be sufficient/better in most circumstances.



There is something like that, but in true PF fashion...you have to wait much longer for the martial goodie than in 3E. Two fighter archetypes, Mobile Fighter and Dawnflower Dervish get the ability at 11th level to move and full attack, but you lose your first attack. Combine this with Whirlwind Attack (which, yes, is a full attack action) and you can run by and slice every enemy in the area except for the one you started closest to. Also don't forget Lunge feat so you can hit more people, and Dazing Assault to leave them unable to act the next turn if they survive the damage.
That's a loooooong way from level 3, though.

EDIT:

You prefer magus to bard(dervish dancer) for mobile damage dealing? 'Cuz that's kinda the DD schtick rright there.

[Gryphonfg]

So they made the dervish a bard archetype. That's why I couldn't find it.

[StreamOfTheSky]

There's actually two dervish archetypes for bard. Dervish Dancer, which is slightly underpowered compared to vanilla bard, and Dawnflower Dervish (Dervish of Dawn on d20pfsrd), which is pretty good.

Dawnflower Dervish (Dervish of Dawn on d20pfsrd) is ALSO a completely different archetype for Fighter.

And I prefer Magus because he can dish out more damage both on a full attack and on a single w/ a move, and is the only one who can use Bladed Dash to get a full attack PLUS all the benefits of the spell, making him the de facto best skirmisher in Pathfinder.

I also like Dawnflower Dervish Bard a lot. I would not take Dervish Dancer.

[Gryphonfg]

Okay, so I have worked up the strix airborne ambusher for level one.

I took the nimble and dayguard racial traits.
Str 16, Con 15, Dex 19, int 15, wis 15, chr 8.
Feats: weapon focus, dodge
trained in fly, survival, perception, and 1 other that I haven't picked. I'm thinking some sort of craft or knowledge.

I'm trying to decide between the glaive or scythe for a weapon. Suggestions?

At level 2 he will get flyby attack and at level three mobility. At level 4 I will probably take combat reflexes to get lots of AoO and put my improvement point into Dex. Weapon specialization and improved crit (or getting the weapon keened) are also on my list.

I'm leaning towards the scythe for the x4 crit. If I can make that a 19-20/x4 and then get lots of extra attacks with combat reflexes and whirlwind attack, I should start getting a lot of crits.