Formula for how LA affects EXP?

[LogosDragon]

Does anybody know a good way to calculate how much Level Adjustment will affect a given character's EXP at varying levels, or will you have to calculate experience by-level with each different character/situation?

As an example, imagine a Half-Fiend character (LA+4) with a +0 LA base race (mainly because I couldn't think off the top of my head of a base race with +4 LA and no RHD) with an ECL of 39; in other words, 35 class levels. If I remember correctly from the experience by level tables, getting to 35 class levels with the +4 LA would take less EXP than getting to 39 class levels with +0 LA, but is there a more time-efficient way to calculate the difference without looking at the level-up charts every time?

Try to keep it simple or at least explain in layman's terms if said formula must be complicated, because I'm not very good at the whole complex math thing.

[mattie_p]

There is no formula.

Taking a Pixie (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie) (an LA +4 character with no racial hit dice) to ECL 39 (35 class levels and +4 LA) takes exactly the same exp as a human to ECL 39 (39 class levels and +0 LA).

The only difference might be if your game uses Level Adjustment Buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm).

LA Buyoff gets more complicated, because as you buy off the LA, your total ECL decreases. If you are in a party, and you are playing from, lets say, ECL 5 all the way to ECL 39, you will eventually be able to reduce your LA to +0. While doing so, your ECL, compared to that of your party, will probably fluctuate, causing you to gain extra XP at various times because you are at a lower level than the rest of your party, and thus gain more XP from the same encounter.

Honestly, if you are playing a level 39 character and don't understand these rules, you probably should not play that character though. Start at a lower level and gain experience (not PC XP, player experience) in the system before you try to play something at level 39.

[Tulya]

The experience awarded from encounters of a given CR is the same for characters of the same ECL, as is the experience required to level. As long as you begin play with the same amount of experience and the same effective character level, you will never fall out of sync with another character as a result of your level adjustment.

[LogosDragon]

W... Wait, what? Have a missed something obvious? That doesn't even make sense to me! Unless the system is obligatorily by-level (in which case nothing makes sense anymore anyway, because acquired templates exist) then it should only take a Pixie 4,000 XP to get their first level of Rogue, and thus they have 4,000 XP at ECL 5 (since LA don't give you XP, just change your level for calculating how much XP you need to get to the next level) compared to the human with 5 Rogue levels who at this point has 10,000 XP.

Unless RHD are considered to be based on experience too, and... Ugh, my head is gonna go esplode nao guyz.

EDIT: Even RHD don't actually matter in this example. Making my point even more solid, but still making me feel derpy. I'm done braining tonight.

While I realize now that I worded my question wrong and agree (as I would have before) that it takes the same amount of XP to get FROM ECL 5 TO ECL 39, I can't fathom how an ECL 39 character who has +4 LA has the same total experience of a character who has ECL 39 with no LA.

[mattie_p]

W... Wait, what? Have a missed something obvious? That doesn't even make sense to me! Unless the system is obligatorily by-level (in which case nothing makes sense anymore anyway, because acquired templates exist) then it should only take a Pixie 4,000 XP to get their first level of Rogue, and thus they have 4,000 XP at ECL 5 (since LA don't give you XP, just change your level for calculating how much XP you need to get to the next level) compared to the human with 5 Rogue levels who at this point has 10,000 XP.

Unless RHD are considered to be based on experience too, and... Ugh, my head is gonna go esplode nao guyz.

EDIT: Even RHD don't actually matter in this example. Making my point even more solid, but still making me feel derpy. I'm done braining tonight.

While I realize now that I worded my question wrong and agree (as I would have before) that it takes the same amount of XP to get FROM ECL 5 TO ECL 39, I can't fathom how an ECL 39 character who has +4 LA has the same total experience of a character who has ECL 39 with no LA.

Both racial hit dice and level adjustment are based on XP. A pixie is not a suitable player character in a campaign that starts at ECL 1. A pixie is suitable for a campaign that starts at ECL 5. They begin with 10,000 XP, and upon gaining their next level at 15,000 XP, attain ECL 6, at the exact same time as a PC that has no level adjustment.

If you wanted to play a pixie from ECL 1, I suggest you look at Savage Species, which has a savage progression bringing the pixie from ECL 1 up to the point where their Monster Manual entry ends. At that point, they are ready to resume gaining character levels.

[LogosDragon]

Are you implying you can lose Level Adjustment by getting Negative-Leveled, then?

Also, would that mean that acquiring the Lich template during your career gives you four levels' worth of EXP without you actually doing anything to earn said EXP?

Yeah, I'll be getting away from the high-level characters for now, but since I'm here, I'll just keep trying to make sense of this senseless game's wacky system.

[mattie_p]

Are you implying you can lose Level Adjustment by getting Negative-Leveled, then?

Also, would that mean that acquiring the Lich template during your career gives you four levels' worth of EXP without you actually doing anything to earn said EXP?

Yeah, I'll be getting away from the high-level characters for now, but since I'm here, I'll just keep trying to make sense of this senseless game's wacky system.

Gaining negative levels has specific game effects. I won't get into that here. Shenanigans lie that way.

Acquiring the lich template gains you +4 to your ECL, and +4 to your LA, without actually affecting your XP total. You basically gain all the benefits of the template up front, and pay for it over time with slowed progression.

But you were talking about inherited templates and racial LA previously. For more information on this topic, I strongly recommend you check out Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928)

EDIT: The 3.5 FAQ addresses it this way:


How should a character afflicted with a template (such
as a PC who becomes a werewolf) deal with his newly
acquired level adjustment? What if he later gets rid of the
lycanthropy?

The simplest method to adjudicate this is to use the
character’s new ECL to determine the point at which he gains
his next level. A 4th-level barbarian who contracts lycanthropy
from a werewolf (and thus gains 2 Hit Dice and a +2 level
adjustment) becomes an ECL 8 character, and thus wouldn’t
gain another class level until his XP total would advance him to
9th level. In the short term, this means the character has an
advantage over his comrades (since he hasn’t yet “paid” for his
level adjustment), but this is a self-correcting problem.
If the curse of lycanthropy is later lifted, the character loses
the level adjustment. Technically speaking, he should then gain
any class levels “due” to him according to his XP total. At the
DM’s option, these levels could be applied gradually rather
than all at once. One option might be to give the character one
level immediately and then two class levels every time he
would gain a single level until his character level is appropriate
for his XP total. This makes the change less abrupt, but also
represents a significant penalty to the character, so this option
should be used only if everyone is comfortable with it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For determining XP rewards, what level your character is relative to his XP total, and how soon he gains a new level, treat any level adjustment as levels in another class. You cannot level drain it away because it's not actual levels, negative levels can only remove levels that grant hit dice.

You can find it explained more thoroughly in the following articles:
Monstrous Conundrums 1 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060404a)
Monstrous Conundrums 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060411a)
The third article deals with CR and Encounter Level, two values that have absolutely nothing to do with PCs, so linking it would only lead to confusion.


As for gaining the Lich template during play, your character's ECL increases by four but his XP total doesn't change, so you won't gain another level until your character's XP total reaches that required for a character of his ECL to gain a level. Alternatively, you can gradually gain the template (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a) over the course of four levels, which is a more balanced way of doing it instead of just giving a character four levels' worth of abilities before he's earned it.