Suppose V pops onto the battlefield right now

[JessmanCA]

What are the best spells for he/she to cast first? Why?

(taking into consideration the spellbook limitations imposed on V too)

[lianightdemon]

aoe spells

[Taelas]

Anything that incapacitates a large number of foes.

From what we know of his spellbook, fireball, cone of cold, chain lightning and prismatic spray are likely candidates.

[Quorothorn]

Open up with Fireball on the nearest full cluster of foes (its maximum bound of targets in one casting is higher than Lightning Bolt's or really almost anything else, provided the soldiers ARE packed together, which the ones still in formation are), then Quickened Haste on the rest of the Order. After that, more Fireballs or something quite different depending on circumstances.

That last phrase is the most important point, really: depending on circumstance.

[Tock Zipporah]

He's high enough level for Quickened fireballs too. So he could be laying out two AOEs per round. The troops in 917 are tightly packed enough to drop like 50 with one blast, and low level enough that they'd all die for sure.

[Onyavar]

V on the battlefield... V on any battle field?

OF COURSE V has NOTHING else to worry about. V will be just the same caster as before, wiping out any threat to the order with maxxed lethal explosion stuff. V will not mope around about Vs time spent in hell, much less even about Vs recent mass-murdering of whole families on the western continent! V will not be in a state of shock, confusion and frustration, nosirreeeeee, V will just blast these few hundred unimportant mooks into flecks of ASH (small ones) with an unmatched application of creatively used magical energy, bending the laws of physics and storytelling to Vs whim!

Yeah, why should V consider the ethical, moral or strategical implications of Vs deal with the fiends, at all? Why should V rethink every step V has taken or will take?


(So, ummmm... I don't think V could even kill an amoeba now, not without two pages of internally discussing and morally justifying the ethical ramifications of V doing so)

[Onyavar]

(So, ummmm... I don't think V could even kill an amoeba now, not without two pages of internally discussing and morally justifying the ethical ramifications of V doing so)

Having said this - yes, old V would use the various spells discussed above. V SHOULD also do it, especially if the order is threatened of being wiped out. The order would welcome it, it's not wrong of V helping them defeat that army, and all this.

But I don't see it happening. Not with those millstones of redeeming from Familicide and two future visits in hell around Vs neck.

[Taelas]

Uh. Regretting the deaths of innocents is one thing. Fighting against an army intent on slaying your friends is quite another.

If V refuses to save the rest of the party because he doesn't want to blow up the army that is trying to to kill them, then he has completely lost his marbles.

[oonker]

Having said this - yes, old V would use the various spells discussed above. V SHOULD also do it, especially if the order is threatened of being wiped out. The order would welcome it, it's not wrong of V helping them defeat that army, and all this.

But I don't see it happening. Not with those millstones of redeeming from Familicide and two future visits in hell around Vs neck.

I agree! My guess is between defensive AoE spells (wall of something, for example) or defensive support spells. Of course those fireballs would be a blast, but I don't know... either way he acts would be welcome!

[zimmerwald1915]

Uh. Regretting the deaths of innocents is one thing. Fighting against an army intent on slaying your friends is quite another.
Are these two things sufficiently different to preclude Onyavar's "two pages" of agonizing?

[Chantelune]

V on the battlefield... V on any battle field?

OF COURSE V has NOTHING else to worry about. V will be just the same caster as before, wiping out any threat to the order with maxxed lethal explosion stuff. V will not mope around about Vs time spent in hell, much less even about Vs recent mass-murdering of whole families on the western continent! V will not be in a state of shock, confusion and frustration, nosirreeeeee, V will just blast these few hundred unimportant mooks into flecks of ASH (small ones) with an unmatched application of creatively used magical energy, bending the laws of physics and storytelling to Vs whim!

Yeah, why should V consider the ethical, moral or strategical implications of Vs deal with the fiends, at all? Why should V rethink every step V has taken or will take?


(So, ummmm... I don't think V could even kill an amoeba now, not without two pages of internally discussing and morally justifying the ethical ramifications of V doing so)

Blackwing ?

Taking aside that V was already going over the mopping phase after discovering the ramifications of familicide, even if she was shocked enough by realizing what her deal with the fiends entails to the point of going back to foetal position for more crying, I doubt Blackwing would just sit next and be all "alright, cry". He would more likely keep pushing V back to do something and the urgency right now would be saving the order.

And frankly, I don't see V sitting still, watching the order die when she could have done something to help. If she ever want to redeem herself, that would start with "not letting the mook army kill her party, that seems to be the only thing standing against a possible world conquest or worst".

[zimmerwald1915]

Blackwing ?
Is there any particular reason to believe Blackwing's body is being protected by the Directors in the same way V's is? It strikes me as fairly in keeping with their deviousness and with Qarr's previous attempts to eliminate Blackwing that they'd simply let him be crushed to death and then claim that they were never obligated to prevent it.

[Iranon]

Mostly that the fiends "pride themselves on their customer service", and so far they certainly lived up to that claim.
Yanking Blackwings soul along, but not extending the immunity as a courtesy would be bad form.

Also - things are going well, no reason to upset that. Will V be easier to manipulate without Blackwing's companionship... or would it either become mopey and useless, or confide in someone else? Anyone else is likely to be trouble than a familar whose existence isn't even acknowledge by the rest of the party.

[Chantelune]

Mostly that the fiends "pride themselves on their customer service", and so far they certainly lived up to that claim.
Yanking Blackwings soul along, but not extending the immunity as a courtesy would be bad form.



This. If Blackwing is tagging along because his soul is linked to V, then its most likely one spell that affected both of them. And so, it's reasonable to consider that if the spell is shielding V's body, then it's shielding Blackwing as well as an extention. And if that's a different spell, then that means they would have jailed Blackwing's soul separately, despite him not having make any deal with the devils, which they shouldn't be able to do (either because of mechanics or because then, the upper planes might have something to say about snatching souls out of nowhere).

And taking the problem on a meta level... Narratively speaking, if Blackwing were to die, it would have been better to simply not bother with getting him in Hell along with V. Blackwing alone wouldn't have manage to stop the order. V had to knock on the stone with a big magic hand to make enough noise that the order could barely notice. He wouln't even have time to get away before the explosion. If Blackwing wasn't along for the ride, his death would be almost a certainity. He would either have stayed by V and try to wake her up or try to regroup with the order for help, but might not have made it in time.

Thus, the fact that Blackwing's soul is curently in hell makes me consider that he's as safe as V. Might be wrong, of course, in the end it's up to the Giant, but I guess we'll see that soon enough. ^^

[137beth]

V can make a huge difference without any offense at all. Wind Wall and Protection from Arrows would greatly reduce the threat, Haste would also really help Roy and Haley.

[Chantelune]

Haley having her boots of speed being tinted when she bought her new armor, I think we can consider she's now wearing them, so using haste on her would be great, but she can still benefit the spell effect even without V. The rest of the order, though, that might be a nice help, yes.

But yes, V could change the tide of the battle even without blasting fireballs around.

[littlebum2002]

Support and defense spells only. Or is that no longer a thing?

[137beth]

Support and defense spells only. Or is that no longer a thing?

Wind Wall, Protection from Arrows, or any of the fog spells that block arrows are all support or defense spells that would be quite effective.

[zimmerwald1915]

Wind Wall, Protection from Arrows, or any of the fog spells that block arrows are all support or defense spells that would be quite effective.
Protection from arrows is touch range and thus not feasible, and the fog spells are all Conjuration.

[Belril Duskwalk]

Support and defense spells only. Or is that no longer a thing?
I suspect V will find herself personally threatened (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html) rather rapidly in this situation.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Protection from arrows is touch range and thus not feasible, and the fog spells are all Conjuration.

V could instead use a number of "Wall of x" spells, though; any that are evocation. That includes Wall of Force, Wind Wall, Wall of Ice, and Wall of Fire. Forcecage is also an option.

Of them, I think Wall of Fire would be their best bet. Wall of Force is vulnerable to Disintegrate, while the others have short durations and, at best, delay the inevitable or give Tarquin and his army a chance to regroup. Wall of Fire doesn't keep anybody out, but deals decent damage to them (at least 2d6+15 or so) and may be a morale breaker.

Forcecage might also work; it's still vulnerable to Disintegrate and only delays the fighting, but it lasts long enough (2 hours per level) to give them a chance to recover.

[2.5 cats]

I forget--do they still have that flying carpet which they used to get to the pyramid?

If so, my recommendation for spells would be.

1) A circular (cylindrical, not spherical) wall. Stone would be great; fire would be OK.

2) Invisibility Sphere. (We saw V cast this one back in the first book. Sorry no link, but it's the cartoon where Elan yells "I got a 4!". Anyway, it's quite plausible that V has this memorized.)

3) Then everybody on the carpet and they're outta there!

No need to risk fighting thousands of soldiers backed up by some heavy dinosaurs and Tarquin & his high-level buddies when they simply can escape.

[RMS Oceanic]

:vaarsuvius: Limited Wish: Teleport!

:smallbiggrin:

[TRH]

Mass Suggestion? A Fireball would probably be better, honestly, and would take up a lower-level spell slot. Not sure why V would have MS prepared anyway.

[The Dark Fiddler]

1) A circular (cylindrical, not spherical) wall. Stone would be great; fire would be OK.

The only problem with Wall of Stone is that it's a Conjuration spell, which V has banned.


:vaarsuvius: Limited Wish: Teleport!

:smallbiggrin:

Limited Wish only works on spells up to 4th level spells if they're in a prohibited school, and Teleportation (and Wall of Stone, for that matter) are 5th spells.

[King of Nowhere]

There are too many foes to fight, and v blasting a few hundreds before running out of spells isn't going to make much difference. Plus, even if they kill all the mooks, there's still tarquin's party. So retreat is the best option.
If V could cast enough fly spells to fly all the party, that would fix the issue. The canyon is a labirynth, so it would be imnpossible to follow them by foot. Of course there's still the wind spell preventing people from flying, so unless V managed to prepare a control wind, it would be useless.
Invisibility sphere also would be of limited use: the mooks are too close together to slip between them, and even if that was possible, there are enough of them to spread out and find the oots once the spell ends.

So, I can't think of anything V could do that would make a difference.

[RMS Oceanic]

Limited Wish only works on spells up to 4th level spells if they're in a prohibited school, and Teleportation (and Wall of Stone, for that matter) are 5th spells.

PhoenixWrightPointsOutACuriouslyShapedCloud.jpg (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/limitedWish.htm)

[littlebum2002]

Assuming Rich is going to require Durkon to have "1 hour of quiet contemplation" , I think the best question to ask is "which spell is most likely to give him that?"

Maybe a "wall of x" combined with a permanency spell?

[zimmerwald1915]

:vaarsuvius: Limited Wish: Teleport!

:smallbiggrin:
I doubt very strongly that the Giant will ever give V access to any variant of wish. Heck, she's only used prestidigitation once on panel, and hasn't done so for six hundred or so strips.


Mass Suggestion? A Fireball would probably be better, honestly, and would take up a lower-level spell slot. Not sure why V would have MS prepared anyway.
It's a spell without somatic components, and V's been explicitly called out in this book as deliberately keeping a few of those in reserve. As for why she'd have it prepared, remember why the Order came to the Windy Canyon in the first place. They wanted to convince the Draketooths to follow the Order's preferred course of action. Mass suggestion probably wouldn't be the first resort, especially as Roy said he'd be relying on Elan's diplomacy, but it's a contingency V could have thought up.

Not that making a suggestion to fifteen mooks is going to change the tide of battle or anything.


There are too many foes to fight, and v blasting a few hundreds before running out of spells isn't going to make much difference.
I'm not sure that's true. As army formations go, this one doesn't strike me as particularly large. Certainly not as large as what Azure City mustered for the battle.


Of course there's still the wind spell preventing people from flying, so unless V managed to prepare a control wind, it would be useless.
Invisibility sphere also would be of limited use: the mooks are too close together to slip between them, and even if that was possible, there are enough of them to spread out and find the oots once the spell ends.
Neither V nor Durkon prepared wind-altering spells today. And V's invisibility sphere is not terribly good for hiding, considering how much noise the party makes jostling to remain inside it.

[The Dark Fiddler]

PhoenixWrightPointsOutACuriouslyShapedCloud.jpg (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/limitedWish.htm)

My bad, I smushed together the "duplicate a wizard/sorc spell from a prohibited school" and "any other prohibited spell" lines. Good thing I caught it this time, though, else I would have been left completely confused as to why you linked me to what I checked in the first place.