I'm stealing the spotlight, help.

[Clumsyninja23]

My group is a low OP party, and this is their second ever campaign. I DM'd the first one, and I'm letting one of the players try their hand at DMing now. I rolled up a Goliath Barbarian. By this board's standards, absolutely nothing special. In this group, I'm stealing the spotlight off everyone else.

My strength is a 22 starting out. I picked up Mountain Rage ACF, Extra Rage feat. I'm not going uber-charger, but I will pick up Power attack next level to use with my greatsword. I usually play caster types, clerics or wizards mostly. Everyone is trying something new, so I chose a Barbarian. I decided to make it a bit strong, so I wasn't just sitting there bored with a mundane compared to my usual casters.

Party consists of 2 catfolk (bard and sorceress), Aasimar Cleric, human swashbuckler, and me. We each worked with the DM to get rid of that pesky level adjustment, so that won't be a thing.

I pump out about 23 damage average at a single target at level 1, which for this group is kinda ridiculous. I know that once we hit mid levels, the casters will start shining, but for these low levels... Well, I don't want to cause everyone to just say "We'll let the barbarian do it." Not only am I the strongest in combat, but I'm the most seasoned, so I end up leading the group and working the most on puzzles.

Basically, without making it boring for me, how do I help shine that spotlight on the other party members and take it off for me? (I can't even say that my barbarian would have to clue about puzzles or anything, 14 intelligence means I'm not stupid.)

I just don't want to have to give up my fun with my character, but moreover I don't want the others to not have fun. Any suggestions Playground?

[herrhauptmann]

Swap your stats around so that you don't have a 22 str starting out. That's +9 damage with a two hander already. Maybe max out your con for now.
Don't take/use ACFs. Mountain rage is a good one as you've seen.
Don't use rage every fight. Say that you're "saving it for when we need it," if anyone asks.
Play stupidly. You can play smart nce the casters are getting their third and fourth level spells, or in surprise fights when everyone is hurt and low on spells.

[Morphie]

I would say that even if you have gone over that "pesky" level adjustment, you're still playing a powerful race and so the opponents should be tougher as well and adjusted to your party's effective level - by the way, the only PC without a LA+1 race is the human swashbuckler, what did he got to compensate for that?.
Your group might be low OP (nothing against that, my group is also like that :smallwink:), but are they playing their classes right? Do they know of their abilities and that kind of stuff?
Your edge might be derived not only from the class/race combo (which is fairly optimized without any cheese), but mainly from your gaming experience and knowledge of what are the best choices for your char without breaking game-balance.
That said, I think you could probably check with your group to see if together you can find a solution to make every character live up to their potential and, most important, be useful in all of the different situations of the game. And that includes the DM too - there are plenty of encounters that can be solved in other ways than not just Goliath Barbarian power.
Just my 2 cp :smallsmile:

[ArcturusV]

In order to have some fun... AND draw back your power a bit... I'd suggest trying insane things just because they sound fun and insane to you at the time.

For example... instead of charging and smashing the nearest/most important enemy right off the bat in a fight... go have your character make the fairly easy climb check (Which should be a snap with that strength) to go climb a tree, balance on a branch, then on your next turn leap down and smite him for no mechanical effect other than "... well it was cool". Doing something like that you basically cut your optimization by more than half (Wasting a turn and not using a full charge or the like). You still had stuff to do. And you're not just going "... charge. he dies. Turn over".

Easier solution I think than rebuilding the character. And once the rest of your party comes into their own you can stop "fooling around".

[Segev]

It's tricky to do without coming across as trying to play their characters, but perhaps you should suggest things to the other players for their PCs to do, rather than doing them IC yourself. If your fellow players are not slow to catch on, you might try dropping oblique hints OOC, or passing notes to other players making suggestions that they can take or leave. Even if all players know you passed a note, it will come from the appropriate player the first time THEY hear it, which may help.

You also do single-target damage. Perhaps the DM needs to try larger numbers of smaller-threat creatures? Sure, you splattered that kobold across seven squares in one blow, but there are 8 more of them. Good thing the Bard is packing Color Spray (or what-have-you).

[Kol Korran]

I don't think you need to cut back mechanically, but rather a bit of change of perspective and approach, and a little word with the DM:
1) It may be cool that you are a leader. If you are the most experienced, others might look at you for leadership. But there can be different kind of ways to lead. Instead of "Let's do this! I think it's best" and treat yourself as the main decision maker, try to be a motivating, nurturing, listening leader. When faced with problems, ask the others for their input, thoughts, advice (As player and character). Delegate decisions of important matters to others (Such as when facing a mostly magical phenomena- "Sorceress, this is beyond my understanding! What say you of this magic?!" Or when approaching social matters speak to the bard "They fear my size and my people, you better talk to them." The idea is to show that you care ,listen to them, and when they make a decision, even if it's not QUITE to your liking, go with it!

In short- make them matter in big decisions, and feel as equal to the fate of the group. It can be quite rewarding leading a group that grows, develops and matures in time.

2) So you're a big brute that causes lots of damage. there are PLENTY of combat Challenges that can still cause you pause, and challenge the party. The DM might be a bit new, but I suggest talking with them: Ambushes from many sides, ranged combat, using magic against the group and you. will and reflex based powers, complex terrain, flyers and more. Not to mention non combat encounters (not talking puzzles, talking social, scouting, stealth, exploring and investigation). In short, talk to the DM to increase his/ her range of options. There is no reason the others can't shine, or that you too can't be challenged.

[Pickford]

I would say that even if you have gone over that "pesky" level adjustment, you're still playing a powerful race and so the opponents should be tougher as well and adjusted to your party's effective level - by the way, the only PC without a LA+1 race is the human swashbuckler, what did he got to compensate for that?.
Your group might be low OP (nothing against that, my group is also like that :smallwink:), but are they playing their classes right? Do they know of their abilities and that kind of stuff?
Your edge might be derived not only from the class/race combo (which is fairly optimized without any cheese), but mainly from your gaming experience and knowledge of what are the best choices for your char without breaking game-balance.
That said, I think you could probably check with your group to see if together you can find a solution to make every character live up to their potential and, most important, be useful in all of the different situations of the game. And that includes the DM too - there are plenty of encounters that can be solved in other ways than not just Goliath Barbarian power.
Just my 2 cp :smallsmile:

Presumably if everyone is LA+1 he should be level 2 to start.

edit: Barbarians don't exactly have any social skills...so I'd be a tad surprised if you have to deal with anyone that the goliath would be...well received socially.

[Glimbur]

I don't think you need to cut back mechanically, but rather a bit of change of perspective and approach, and a little word with the DM:
1) It may be cool that you are a leader. If you are the most experienced, others might look at you for leadership. But there can be different kind of ways to lead. Instead of "Let's do this! I think it's best" and treat yourself as the main decision maker, try to be a motivating, nurturing, listening leader. When faced with problems, ask the others for their input, thoughts, advice (As player and character). Delegate decisions of important matters to others (Such as when facing a mostly magical phenomena- "Sorceress, this is beyond my understanding! What say you of this magic?!" Or when approaching social matters speak to the bard "They fear my size and my people, you better talk to them." The idea is to show that you care ,listen to them, and when they make a decision, even if it's not QUITE to your liking, go with it!

In short- make them matter in big decisions, and feel as equal to the fate of the group. It can be quite rewarding leading a group that grows, develops and matures in time.

2) So you're a big brute that causes lots of damage. there are PLENTY of combat Challenges that can still cause you pause, and challenge the party. The DM might be a bit new, but I suggest talking with them: Ambushes from many sides, ranged combat, using magic against the group and you. will and reflex based powers, complex terrain, flyers and more. Not to mention non combat encounters (not talking puzzles, talking social, scouting, stealth, exploring and investigation). In short, talk to the DM to increase his/ her range of options. There is no reason the others can't shine, or that you too can't be challenged.

Solid stuff. I would expand on the idea of talking to the DM. Explain your concerns, and offer ideas on how to thwart your character. A group of kobolds, especially with nets, is a better threat than an orc or two because you can only kill one thing a round. Ranged attacks can be dangerous. Spells that target will could be a problem; even the Daze cantrip. Denying actions is kind of frustrating to deal with, so maybe lean more heavily on suggesting terrain, more but weaker foes, and ranged attacks. Your DM might have more ideas, this is just to get the conversation going.

Edit: Upon reading Kol's entire post, most of this was already said. Well, consider this another vote for talking about your concerns.

[Tim Proctor]

Solid stuff. I would expand on the idea of talking to the DM. Explain your concerns, and offer ideas on how to thwart your character. A group of kobolds, especially with nets, is a better threat than an orc or two because you can only kill one thing a round. Ranged attacks can be dangerous. Spells that target will could be a problem; even the Daze cantrip. Denying actions is kind of frustrating to deal with, so maybe lean more heavily on suggesting terrain, more but weaker foes, and ranged attacks. Your DM might have more ideas, this is just to get the conversation going.

Edit: Upon reading Kol's entire post, most of this was already said. Well, consider this another vote for talking about your concerns.

Agree, talk to the DM let them know how you're feeling and ask for 1) more social encounters that your guy would suck at, 2) combat encounters where you can't do much i.e. in a cave or otherwise tight location (one where you can't swing your club or w/e would be great), you get charmed etc.

I found that it was useful to review the PC sheets as a DM and design adventures/encounter specifically for one character to shine through and then rotate through the list (randomly) so that every gets a turn.

I had a similar situation where I had a Dwarven Fighter/Tank that was nearly unstoppable in Combat and the DM kept throwing straight fights as us. I had a CHA of 4 (because the DM gave me the stats) but wouldn't throw in an encounter that required CHA to function, nor a fight in 4 feet of water which would have made my character worthless because the super heavy armor he was wearing, or where they needed to climb a rope to get somewhere. I ended up having to leave the group because the DM wouldn't stray from his tactics of 'big creature charges closest PC' and couldn't kill him with assassins and poison.

So my advice is to explain this and give DM advice to the player (maybe tell him about this forum) and don't read his posts when he asks for advice on how to do something.

[ericgrau]

Pretty straightforward then. Low op party means limit your OP. Don't use such ACFs, no goliath. Ask the DM for a rewrite. You backstory can still be almost the same. Instead of going with strong, go with versatile and smart later to have fun. Heck you said yourself you have the justification for it. Tricky magic items are one way, dips are another. Since you can't concentrate during a rage, you might play him with a split personality where suddenly all the planning and tricks go out the window once he starts slashing things: like the guy in this comic: http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/07/10/episode-440-berserkers-want-what-we-all-want-civilization/ (Berserker put the axe there btw while berserking moments ago. He has no recollection of the matter)

Any barbarian will still be pretty darn good at level 1, but things will even out very soon.

[DementedFellow]

Enjoy it while you can. Soon the sorcerer will get a bit more blasty and you'll be the one overshadowed. Spellcasters typically understand this dynamic.

[RogueDM]

You said you were doing most of the work on puzzles too? Stop it! You're a barbarian. Unless your barb has a high Int stat, or maaaaybe Wis, you should keep your contribution to puzzle solutions to things your character might think of. Usually "I hit [object A]. No? Then I throw [object A] at [object B]. No? Then I'm tapped."

Refuse to be useful out of your element, someone else will have to step in.

[Greenish]

You said you were doing most of the work on puzzles too? Stop it! You're a barbarian. Unless your barb has a high Int stat, or maaaaybe Wis, you should keep your contribution to puzzle solutions to things your character might think of. Usually "I hit [object A]. No? Then I throw [object A] at [object B]. No? Then I'm tapped."He does have 14 Int, and class isn't a straightjacket that forces you to play a silly caricature. :smallannoyed:

[Scow2]

You said you were doing most of the work on puzzles too? Stop it! You're a barbarian. Unless your barb has a high Int stat, or maaaaybe Wis, you should keep your contribution to puzzle solutions to things your character might think of. Usually "I hit [object A]. No? Then I throw [object A] at [object B]. No? Then I'm tapped."

This kind of stereotypical behavior is an affront to Conan. A barbarian that isn't canny and intelligent is a dead barbarian.

[RolkFlameraven]

Ah, the good ol' two handed Barb.

I've had to stop using them as a DM as one player of mine dies EVERY time I use one, its nuts.

Still at lower levels like you are at, in combat you are doing what you are supposed to do, you are a two handed barb after all.

If you are still combat god by level 5-6 with out some effort on your part then I would start to worry.

But I must ask you this, is the rest of your party upset or are they having fun? You might FEEL like you are over shadowing them but they might not.

[Scow2]

My suggestion would be to swap out your Greatsword for a Longsword, and grab a Large Shield. Feats that work two-handed work well one-handed as well, though the tradeoff isn't QUITE as good. It'll also bring your damage down to reasonable levels compared to the rest of the party (But still awesome because of your size bonuses and raw strength). When it's time to take the Training Wheels off, you can drop the shield and kick ass.

[herrhauptmann]

This kind of stereotypical behavior is an affront to Conan. A barbarian that isn't canny and intelligent is a dead barbarian.

He's been a mercenary, a raider, a pirate, a thief, a general, and a king.
Man didn't rob the Tower of the Elephant by being dumb.

[ericgrau]

I don't think it's good to keep assuming that Clumsyninja will get dramatically overshadowed by casters the moment they hit level 6 in such a low optimization group. Such things don't happen as often in such groups. I'd address the problem immediately. Then only if the barb seems weak later you start adding better things to the build. Rather than putting up with the problem for multiple levels and many many gaming sessions to see if it continues. I once got fighter banned by mistake, by overestimating what everyone else could do. Among 3 casters plus 1 non-caster. Everyone else were veterans and while they don't know internet tricks their optimization wasn't terrible.

[Platymus Pus]

You are level 1 that doesn't usually take long to get out of.
The other classes outshine you once you reach 4-6.
The cleric outshines you at level 1 simply due to healing.
A dead Barb isn't very useful is it?

[nedz]

You're level 1 ?

I wouldn't worry about this basically.

The Cleric and Sorcerer will become much more powerful as they level whilst you will become only steadily more powerful. This does depends on what spells the Sorcerer takes, but that is not your responsibility.

[IronFist]

Str 28 and 3d6 damage from a Large greatsword should be 19.5 average damage. Maybe you're adding more bonuses than you should from Mountain Rage?

[HalfQuart]

The Cleric and Sorcerer will become much more powerful as they level whilst you will become only steadily more powerful. This does depends on what spells the Sorcerer takes, but that is not your responsibility.
I don't think that's particularly true in this case, at least not until the very high levels. Player > Build > Tier... and in this case it sounds like he's the much more experienced player, with a much higher optimized build -- he will pretty much always shine.

[Barstro]

If you are the best at L1-3, it should give the other players more pride when they surpass you. In the meantime, they should be pleased that you are keeping them alive

Since you are so overpowered due to melee, find a way to be bad at it. Get your favorite weapon stolen/broken and only use a club until you get it back. Convince the DM to give loot that consists of +1 weapons that are good only for the other characters. Get into fights where your Rage runs out. Find the cutest kitten ever and become so at ease that you lose the ability to rage.

[ericgrau]

Str 28 and 3d6 damage from a Large greatsword should be 19.5 average damage. Maybe you're adding more bonuses than you should from Mountain Rage?
Nope, rather you forgot to x1.5 the str mod and it's 23.5 average.

[nedz]

I don't think that's particularly true in this case, at least not until the very high levels. Player > Build > Tier... and in this case it sounds like he's the much more experienced player, with a much higher optimized build -- he will pretty much always shine.

True, but the new players will improve. Also: Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard.

[John Longarrow]

I'd talk to your DM about having more urban encounters. Nothing slows down a mountain raging Goliath quicker than a flight of 5' wide stairs...

Course at level 2 you'll have to take a level in Ranger to get favored enemy-HOUSE to compensate.

NOTE: This is based on the Mountain Raging Goliath in a previous campaign I was in. Player had a great time with him, but when ever he faced off for battle in a building he did a lot of structural damage.

[Flickerdart]

Barbarian, eh? Get the Wolf Totem ACF, which gives you Improved Trip. Now you can knock people down for your party to pile up on. Employ other combat maneuvers, too - you are likely to succeed at them due to your huge Strength score and make the enemies easier to take care of.

[Karoht]

Barbarian huh?
Maybe work on Improved Overrun and related feats. You won't run around doing as much damage, but you basically spend your actions being highly mobile, charging around the battlefield and knocking things over. You deny attack actions (because they have to get up or act while prone) you make things more vulnerable for the rest of the party to attack, you set up AoO's for the party to take advantage of. And you will still do damage (spiked shoulders FYI) you just won't be doing buckets of it to one thing. If you set it up right, you'd be doing moderate amounts of damage to lots of things, and making them highly vulnerable to more damage later.
Think of it like a tactical ubercharger.

Outside of that, work on being as invulnerable as possible, rather than boosting damage output. Work on simple things the party might not think of, like being able to charge despite difficult terrain, and having LOTS of movement to do so with.

[zilonox]

In order to have some fun... AND draw back your power a bit... I'd suggest trying insane things just because they sound fun and insane to you at the time.

For example... instead of charging and smashing the nearest/most important enemy right off the bat in a fight... go have your character make the fairly easy climb check (Which should be a snap with that strength) to go climb a tree, balance on a branch, then on your next turn leap down and smite him for no mechanical effect other than "... well it was cool". Doing something like that you basically cut your optimization by more than half (Wasting a turn and not using a full charge or the like). You still had stuff to do. And you're not just going "... charge. he dies. Turn over".

Easier solution I think than rebuilding the character. And once the rest of your party comes into their own you can stop "fooling around".

THIS! Plus, you can always switch back to optimized mode when needed (like during a BBG fight).

Even better if you can find a way to continue "fooling around" even at higher levels. The other players may well fondly remember "that crazy barbarian" later on in the gaming careers. =)

[DR27]

Thing is, you are playing a barbarian - you don't really have many other options besides hitting hard. Stealth/Skill situations? Social situations? Don't be too worried that you are racking up big damage numbers - you are sitting around not doing much when the situation calls for something besides swinging a big stick. Overshadowing in the damage arena is your one chance to shine.

[nedz]

THIS! Plus, you can always switch back to optimized mode when needed (like during a BBG fight).

Even better if you can find a way to continue "fooling around" even at higher levels. The other players may well fondly remember "that crazy barbarian" later on in the gaming careers. =)

Well this is slightly dangerous if your DM is expecting you to follow your usual MO, and then you suddenly start larking around in combat. This could make a hard fight suddenly too hard for the party.

[Karoht]

Well this is slightly dangerous if your DM is expecting you to follow your usual MO, and then you suddenly start larking around in combat. This could make a hard fight suddenly too hard for the party.Pick an easy fight to start playing less optimally or trying out new tricks. You may want to have a talk with the DM, especially if you might start doing things like Bullrush/Overrun stuff. Get a couple of "shakedown" encounters to try a few things out and see what the party thinks.

[Jade_Dragon]

Talk to the DM about incorporating challenges that will let the other teammates shine. Magical obstacles you wouldn't know how to handle but a spellcaster could.

[Honest Tiefling]

Maybe I missed something, but what have the other players said exactly in regards to this issue?

[Yogibear41]

Just roll with it IMO, for 2 reasons 1 being your a barbarian at level 1 this is YOUR time to shine you will never have it as good later as you do now, excluding maybe full attacking on a charge at level 6 or something. The other classes(except the swashbuckler) are going to end up surpassing you in the long run so don't worry, the faster you kill things the more XP the group gets and the faster you make yourself irrelevant(potentially). 2ndly and probably the more important out of the two are that if you being experienced is leading you to outperform the other newer players so much they will have more of an incentive to go look things up and learn more about their classes themselves so they can actually compete.


I'm playing in a campaign now where only 1 player other than myself has any sort of experience in dnd, where he has many years under his belt(hes actually the DM for the main game I play in) and myself which I have a little over a year of experience but I dove head first into optimization and all that what nots of minmax boards etc.

Anyway to make a long story short the DM basically shot down 4 of my characters because they would be "too strong" and screw up the party balance and all that, mind you I was level 3 the others in the group are level 4. So he is intentionally nerfing me so the other players don't feel out done.
Well about 6 months later, we get almost next to nothing done while playing, they more or less don't understand the game any better than they did months ago, and we move along at the speed of a snail(one night we basically walked around in the woods some found a wyvern and killed it took about 5 real life hours). So to me his way of balancing things to keep them fair is really hurting them more than it is helping because they don't seem to be learning anything as they go along, and it has become rather painful for me and the other experienced player.

[Kane0]

Fight defensively :smalltongue:

Don't purposely shoot your build in the foot, just change your tactics. For example don't rage or use power attack unless you have to, don't go looking for good charge lines or set up flanks, take move actions with standard attacks instead of full attacks, fight defensively when you are comfortable with a victory.

That said, don't deliberately try to kill off your PC with bad tactics, just don't take full advantage unless you need to pull your finger out.

[pso_zeldaphreak]

I didn't read the whole thread (because phone), but I saw someone mention "goofing around". If you read the entry in RoS, you'll see that's a common trait amongst goliaths - handicapping themselves in order to keep things competitive. Consider doing over-the-top finishing move type stuff - tree pouncing is always good, or maybe a backflip/tumble stab. If it seems viable, toss down your weapon and grapple. This fits in-character, so once your party catches up, you'll have to start fighting seriously.

[sketchtb]

I think the advice so far has been pretty solid, have some fun, try some new, interesting tactics. I have a barbarian with the 3.0 lunatic background to add some fun. It adds to the crazy barbarian stereotype (also going FB in a couple of levels). As has been mentioned, talk to your dm about creating encounters with more low level monsters, you could play wackagoblin while the others get a feel for their characters. Any good dm is going to understand and respect your concerns so work with them to find a solution.

[angry_bear]

Roll with it. Point out to the bard he's got the potential to be a diplomancer, and after you slice a couple of low CR foes in half with a limp wristed backhand of your great sword, have him make the intimidation check so that the rest of them surrender. The sorcerer is new, so I'm willing to bet that he's going blaster, and before too long he's going to become a walking nuclear holocaust of awesome. Low levels he might not shine, but that's fine, he's also not going to die from a lucky shot by the enemy while you're doing your job. The cleric is well off too, he might take a while, but whether he's buffing, healing, or taking it to the enemy, he'll be performing his role reasonably well.

When you work out how to best compliment the party members, it won't feel like you're outshining them. Sure you can do more melee damage, but seeing as the bard can end an encounter with one intimidation, diplomacy, or bluff check, you won't be the guy ending the fight. You'll be the catalyst sure, but it'll be through party cooperation and planning around each other's specialties that you'll be winning more often than not.

[IronFist]

Nope, rather you forgot to x1.5 the str mod and it's 23.5 average.

Ooooh, now I feel stupid.