Pallock Build Critique/Simplification

[ghost_warlock]

Sometime in the near future my DM buddy is planning on rebooting his Spelljammer campaign for the third incarnation, this time starting at 15th. As such, I'm hoping to get a solid build hammered out. While I think I've got the basics down, I'm hoping there's a simpler way to go about weapliments and converting damage to radiant for morninglord's burning radiance at 16th. Some suggestions for advancing to infinity 16th and beyond would also be helpful.


Horril Faust, level 15
Human, Paladin/Warlock, Morninglord
Arcane Implement Proficiency Option: Arcane Implement Proficiency (light blade group)
Hybrid Paladin Option: Hybrid Paladin Fortitude
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid) Option: Sorcerer-King Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock Option: Hybrid Warlock Will
Hybrid Talent Option: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Light blade)
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Order Adept

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 15, DEX 14, INT 18, WIS 9, CHA 22

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 13, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 16


AC: 32 Fort: 29 Ref: 30 Will: 33
HP: 105 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 26

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Diplomacy +18, Endurance +10, Intimidate +18, Streetwise +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Athletics +3, Bluff +13, Dungeoneering +6, Heal +6, History +11, Insight +6, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +11, Stealth +5, Thievery +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Order Adept Attack: Argent Rain
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Paladin Feature: Divine Challenge
Warlock's Curse Power: Warlock's Curse
Paladin Attack 1: Virtuous Strike
Warlock Attack 1: Echoing Dirge
Paladin Attack 1: Valorous Smite
Warlock Attack 1: Crown of Stars
Paladin Utility 2: Call of Challenge
Paladin Utility 2: Virtue
Paladin Attack 7: Price of Cowardice
Warlock Attack 7: Touch of Command
Paladin Attack 9: Ray of Reprisal
Warlock Utility 10: Ethereal Sidestep
Morninglord Attack 11: Pure Glow
Morninglord Utility 12: Rising Sun
Warlock Attack 15: Oubliette of the Void

FEATS
Level 1: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Versatile Expertise
Level 4: Practiced Killer
Level 6: Cursed Shadow
Level 8: Mindbite Scorn
Level 10: Mark of Passage
Level 11: Crimson Fire
Level 12: Improved Defenses
Level 14: Shield Mastery

ITEMS
Radiant Rapier +3 x1
Amulet of Protection +4 x1
Warlock's Bracers x1
Heavy Shield x1
Eladrin Ring of Passage x1
Adventurer's Kit
Doctrinal book
Summoned Gith Plate Armor +3 x1
Circlet of Second Chances x1
Siberys Shard of Radiance (heroic tier)
Resplendent Gloves (heroic tier) x1
Acrobat Boots x1


My role in the group will, essentially, be a 5th-man off-defender/striker. The other party members will likely consist of:

human light blade grappling fighter (MC'd assassin and grabbed some items that give teleports)
half-orc slayer (gouge charge spammer)
dwarven Wis-based weapliment cleric
minotaur Wis-based cleric|warlord hybrid (awful character; player tends to sleep through sessions and only wake up long enough to use Direct the Strike :smallannoyed:)
staff wizard (either an eladrin or a warforged; focused on friendly AoEs).
there may also be an elven ranger (lightning bow + mark of storm).


Because our Spelljamming vessel can only be piloted by a character with arcane spell slots and training in Arcana I need to have a decent score in that to be the back-up pilot in case something happens to our wizard. As such, I went with the Wizard's Apprentice theme for the bonus to Arcana, as well as the blinding encounter attack and the extra 360gp I got from selling the lvl 6 common the theme grants. With that extra cash I'm technically 40gp over the amount the builder gives me to spend at 15th, but our resident cleric of Mephistopheles was willing to lend it to me after I signed some papers; he assured me it was all routine stuff and nothing to be concerned about. :smalltongue:

[Tegu8788]

Quick glance, I'd use Deviut Protector Expertise instead of Versatile. Gives the same benefits, plus everyone in the party gets a free light shield so they can focus on bigger weapons.

[ghost_warlock]

I originally had Devout Protector's Expertise but switched it out. It might be just another bug, but WotC's builder wasn't applying the feat bonus on any of my implement powers since I'm not actually using a holy symbol to make attacks. The Symbol of the Champion's Code is only there for the passive +2 damage to Divine Challenge/Sanction.

I thought about using War Wizard's Expertise but the only weapon powers that applies to are basic attacks.

[Yakk]

Drop int by 2 at creation, up con by 2. Put all level-ups into int.

Result: 1 additional attribute point (put it into dex), and otherwise same stats.

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Echoing dirge isn't a legal choice: it lacks a level. Did it get errata'd? Character builder may be in error.

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Is 7 HP worth a +2 to arcana?

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I prefer order adept to wizard's apprentice. Having full access to all wizard utility powers rocks, and the power bonus to arcana is higher. You get a burst 1 power instead of a single target one that dazes.

[ghost_warlock]

Echoing Dirge (and Shadow Claws if someone wanted that for some reason) have had a level and been legal since at least when the warlock guide on WotC's forums was last updated. For some reason Fascinating Shadows and Mind Shadows were never given a level, though.

I'll look into the ability score adjustments.

Not sure what you mean with the 7hp/+2 Arcana thing. Right now the character's hp are based on Cha because of the Auspicious Birth background. I don't really need Arcana to be fantastically high (I'm not going Sage of Ages) just high enough to make the occasional DC 20-25 check without sweating.

Order Adept is good and it's usually my go-to theme for an arcane character and I considered just taking it here, too, but went with something different. :smalltongue: It does only give access to 2nd level wizard utilities, for the record. While shield is great, both warlock and paladin already have great utilities at that level (and later). In any case, the builder won't actually let a non-wizard select wizard utilities anyway, not that I'm overly concerned about that.

The bonus to Arcana & Will from OA is worth a second consideration, though. At 15th, I think the single-target daze from Wizard's Apprentice is better than a weak AoE from OA. At 16th the AoE would probably be better because I can use it spread radiant vulnerability around (especially if I use it right before I Action Point and drop another AoE or the cleric uses Flame Strike). So, really, the big difference between the two is whether I think it's worth it to have my divine challenge/sanction do more damage from the get-go - I can justify being 40gp over budget but 400 is pushing it. :smalltongue:

Edit: Adjusted the ability scores ad will probably go with Order Adept. At 15th level I'm hoping the 3400 for the symbol will be chump change and I can have the wizard craft it as soon as we get the dough. Starting with a 33 Will defense is just too good to pass up, really. Especially since I know my DM loves to stun and dominate people. :smallwink: Updating the OP.

[Tegu8788]

Dirge is a great power, and it's the bread and butter of my Pallock. But if you only have two, Eldritch Strike is magic, letting you pick up Ardent Strike as your Paladin at-will.


But there are some slight issues. You have a speed of 5, needing to move 3 to trigger Shadow Walk. Aside from a slight boost in defensive-ness that most Paladins don't really need, what does it give you?

You have an issue with which mark you are using. Sanction is much stronger a punishment and easy to get a number of ways to access them, but they run out quite quickly. On the other hand, Crimson Fire is a great way to boost your DPR. The problem is, they require different marks and they are exclusive. If you Sanction your Challenge, you lose your d10 curse, and have to spend another minor re-Challenging. This is a problem to consider.

As of right now, you have Implements: Rod, Wand, Ki Focus, Holy Symbol, and Light Blade. That is quite a lot. If all your Paladin powers are Weapon attacks, then a simple Pact Blade will solve those issues. A Ki Focus would be the easiest way after that to use one magic slot to power all attacks.

I would suggest dumping Str, Dex, and Wis, and throwing everything into Cha and Int, with anything left into Con to take care of your Fort. Paladin should help with that NAD.

Given that you want to be Arcana good, and you've got a decently melee party, I would focus on being a ranged defender, using Warlock powers to maintain your mark at range. There are a couple good Paladin immediate powers that are punishment based, that not only free up your standard action for a Warlock power, but increases the punishment you do with your weak Challenge. You focus on a single target, destroy it, then move on to the next.

If you do that, your Int may be high enough that you can forgo Plate and get Leather, using HT for Shadow Walk, and circling around the one target to maintain it. You would definitely be more of a Striker than a Defender.


These are my thoughts. Take them for what they are worth.

[ghost_warlock]

I love Eldritch Strike but the last pallock I played had Ardent Strike, Echoing Dirge, and Eldritch Strike and I found I almost never used Eldritch Strike except for a very rare OA. I figured Heroic Effort would be more valuable than three at-wills for a character that can't feasibly get his attack bonus over +21/+18 @ 15th.

With the last pallock I almost never used Ardent Strike either, as it was usually better to just use Echoing Dirge even with the mark added by Ardent Strike. Since roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of our fights will be taking place on the deck of our ship, the forced movement from Echoing Dirge is good for pushing enemies overboard. Essentially, I have Virtuous Strike in this build solely for the odd opportunity attack and will likely never use it outside of that. Even if I don't get to add curse die to it, it'll still be good after 16th because I'll be inflicting vulnerable 10 radiant with the off-turn attack.

That's why I'm using a radiant rapier instead of a pact weapon: so I can convert all damage to radiant to trigger Morninglord's radiant vulnerability @16th. Our cleric uses a Crusader's mordenkrad so all of his damage is 1/2 radiant and the cleric|warlord hybrid has an occasional radiant attack as well. We don't have a full radiant mafia, but it should suffice.

I expected my tactics would likely be to grab one creature at a time and ruin his day, at least until I can grab Twofold Curse sometime around 18th or 20th level. Probably going to Twofold Pact (star) at 16th for the power riders, though fey is also tempting for eyebite. Really, though, in almost every circumstance where I'd use eyebite it'd probably be better to just use Echoing Dirge so I can get the forced movement and drop double the radiant vulnerability for when the cleric uses an AoE like Flame Strike.

Movement and getting Shadow Walk shouldn't be an issue as I have at-will teleport 3 via Ethereal Sidestep+Mark of Passage+Eladrin Ring of Passage. Would've been cheaper if I could go eladrin chainmail, but my defenses would suffer too much. Part of the goal is to get my defenses stupid high so that enemies are essentially forced to eat my Divine Challenge/Sanction damage. Considering they should also be vulnerable to radiant damage when they do, it'll hurt a lot. :smallamused:

I think I have to have a 13 Dex for one of my feats; don't remember which one. Might have been Astral Fire (which I swapped out for Improved Defenses) now that I think about it. Still, having some Dex is useful for the tiny boost to Initiative. As a human, my Int is never going to be high enough to make leather comparable to plate for AC. Actually, I might swap out my assassin MC feat for the one that gives an encounter teleport, as it'd have slightly better range than my at-will teleport.

Almost all of my powers are ranged already, aside from Virtuous Strike. I'll see if there's something I like better than Valorous Smite, but I think I"m set to replace it at 17th anyway.

Thanks for the input! :smallsmile:

[Tegu8788]

L7 Price of Cowardice would work well for you, L1 Cruel Bounty or Glow of Uban would both be useful. I do understand the at-will choice, it's a pretty good one, and I agree heroic effort is very nice.

My thought, was given your warlord wakes up just enough to offer Direct the Strike, it's good to have a nasty MBA, but it sounds like you can handle that.

My suggestion for going with Warlock armor would to keep you outside of attack range, so your defenses wouldn't be as crucial.

Protective Hex could be a good paragon feat for you, making it even harder for your target to hit anybody.

Remember that Shadow Walk triggers on you ended in 3 or more squares away, not just moving 3 squares. Annoying, but it means you can't just teleport to the other side of a guy to have concealment.

I'd also consider swapping your heavy shield for a Rod. Between Warlock Rods and Invoker Rods, you should find some good options to boost radiant damage.

[ghost_warlock]

I've got Price of Cowardice already; had a lot of fun with that power the last time.

As for the warlord and Direct the Strike, I'm not expecting many extra attacks from him because it honestly might be better for him to give the attack to either our fighter (spread her marks), the slayer (who targets Reflex with his basic and has something like a +22 to hit for 2d6+25 brutal 1 damage, not even considering any bonuses from his stances), or maybe even the ranger if he's around (great for repositioning enemies with his lightning bow+mark of storm).

Sword + shield is definitely better for this character than going with rods. Going with rods would force me to use one of the rods that can be used as a weapon, which frankly have suck properties otherwise and only have a +2 proficiency bonus instead of the +3 I'm getting from rapier. Even worse, I can't use them to convert my damage to radiant like I can with the sword; the sword property allows me to convert powers to radiant instead of being shackled with powers that already do radiant.

Also, a heavy shield is +1 AC and Reflex over what a rod can supply and allows me to take Shield Mastery, jumping my Fortitude up by 2 points that stacks with every other buff I can add to it. After all, I do want to draw some attacks because any attack against me that misses is a wasted turn for that monster.

Protective Hex is a good one, even if it only (annoyingly) works against close and melee attacks. I'm considering it but I'll probably take Twofold Pact and Twofold Curse* first, putting Protective at 20th or higher. At some point it might behoove me to pick up Improved/Superior Initiative, after all. And Contagious Challenge is definitely in the running as well! :smallsigh:

*Twofold Curse is a godsend for action economy reasons. As a fight progresses it'll help make sure I can switch my primary (Crimson Fire) target with just the minor it takes to change Divine Challenge instead of the move+minor to curse & challenge.

Edit: Holy crap. I can't believe I didn't think of it until now, but I need to get White Lotus Riposte. Most of my standards will be spamming Echoing Dirge anyway, and I can set up a really nice Catch-22 with radiant converted Echoing Dirge+Divine Challenge/Sanction+Morninglord radiant vulnerability. :smallbiggrin: