Bestow Curse - Need some suggestion

[Novercalis]

Quick Background - I am a MALE Aasimar Cleric, follower of Loviatar.
In 2 more levels, I will be dipping into the prestige class of "Maiden of Pain".

Mandatory Requirement is: Female

I do not have access to the curse armor belt. Girdle of Masculinity/female

However someone did mention I can curse myself into a Female.
However I know my DM... He is not going to let me curse myself into a female without some other sorts of penalty.

Can you guys help suggest some reasonable penalty that isn't crippling against a Debuff/Melee Cleric and would make sense RP wise.

As a Follower of Loviatar and Maiden of Pain - RP wise - I am a Sado-Masochist. I am a fallen Assimar. Lawful Evil. The Antagonist of the Party (therefor always bitching at the party and disagreeing)

[Fax Celestis]

How about a -3 (half normal penalty from bestow curse) to CHA because you don't know how to act like a female (not that it's not really any different, but mentally you think it is and therefore act weird)? Or a -4 to social skills (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive)?

[Icestorm245]

Well, there's really no way around that. This is up to your DM. Try to rework the class so it suits a male and sell it to him like that. I think this would be your best bet. Honestly, I really can't see any DM restricting access to a PrC based solely upon a gender issue... it wouldn't make for a good group dynamic.

[Rubik]

Men tend to have higher centers of gravity than women due to the way we're built, so our sense of balance is different, of necessity. Penalties on movement-related checks and Reflex saves should work.

[Novercalis]

Well, there's really no way around that. This is up to your DM. Try to rework the class so it suits a male and sell it to him like that. I think this would be your best bet. Honestly, I really can't see any DM restricting access to a PrC based solely upon a gender issue... it wouldn't make for a good group dynamic.

The Book where the PRC is in states Females only. Hell it's rare to have a male cleric of Loviatar to begin with. He made the ruling to keep the female gender and is refusing me to use Girdle. I purposely asked him is there any other restrictions I can find to become a female that doesn't involve in casteration and he said if I find anything else, it's allowed. Bestow Curse is my easy way - technically if I can sell a proper penalty. If I let him choose - my character is screwed.

[Novercalis]

How about a -3 (half normal penalty from bestow curse) to CHA because you don't know how to act like a female (not that it's not really any different, but mentally you think it is and therefore act weird)? Or a -4 to social skills (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive)?

Current Stats

Str 12
Dex 8
Con 13
Int 11
Wis 18
Cha 12

As a lore of Loviatar and Assimar - my CHA is already LOW as it is. We utilize beauty and deception. So can't take a hit on CHA.

Skills:
Concentration 6
Diplomacy 3
Heal 3
Intimidate 5
Listen 5
Profession - Interrogate 8
Sense Motive 3
Spellcraft 5
Spot 5

Fort 6
Reflex 0
Will 8

[Novercalis]

Men tend to have higher centers of gravity than women due to the way we're built, so our sense of balance is different, of necessity. Penalties on movement-related checks and Reflex saves should work.

possible option

I notice one of the description on the book for bestow curse is

Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.

I am looking for something like that but it could be drastic.
for 3 days per month I suffer some major issue... PMS penalty lol...but what exactly... bring the lulz

[Rubik]

possible option

I notice one of the description on the book for bestow curse is

Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.

I am looking for something like that but it could be drastic.
for 3 days per month I suffer some major issue... PMS penalty lol...but what exactly... bring the lulzI wouldn't go for PMS, because that's stereotypically sexist, but who am I to judge on that?

Anyway, a -6 penalty to movement-based checks (including Balance, Tumble, Jump, Climb, and on checks to resist movement, such as Str checks vs bull-rushes) and to Reflex saves should be enough. It's a pretty major penalty -- much higher than mere gender-change would account for -- but it's a curse, so it makes sense.

[ArcturusV]

I would avoid the silly mechanical penalties and go for something else in the realm of situation RP penalties. Those tend to be the more interesting uses of Bestow Curse anyway. Malus to a stat? Yawn. Smells like rotting fish and kelp? Oddly fun.

And that might be the best way to go. Sadly I can't remember Lovitar off the top of my head to suggest a "fun" curse that isn't going to ruin your schtick. I'm assuming it's one of those usual quasi BDSM Dominatrix Cleric things like evil goddesses keep tending to be?

[herrhauptmann]

Can you just polymorph/alter self into a woman? I know they're both wizard spells, but there's ways around that too.

[Rubik]

Can you just polymorph/alter self into a woman? I know they're both wizard spells, but there's ways around that too.Polymorph Any Object, if you don't mind Int 10. Or you could go fire elf or gray elf, for Int 12. And the best part about elves is it's impossible for others to tell what gender you are anyway.

Or dwarf. You'd gain 12 Con and Int 10, and still nobody could tell what gender you are.

I wonder if maybe they've been lying to the world the whole time, because elves are just female dwarves.

Or you could PAO into a sarruhk and have a nice fat 30 Int.

[Novercalis]

Can you just polymorph/alter self into a woman? I know they're both wizard spells, but there's ways around that too.

I thought of that but it honestly wouldnt make sense. As a follower of Loviatar, we spread pain, suffering and misery. We too have to go through some pain test and be example of someone who can take pain and suffering.

Thus Curse works - cause I am still gonna suffer from something. My pride, humility, and whatever else.

Poly I dont suffer anything and insulting my goddess, basically lying to her I suppose.

[Novercalis]

I would avoid the silly mechanical penalties and go for something else in the realm of situation RP penalties. Those tend to be the more interesting uses of Bestow Curse anyway. Malus to a stat? Yawn. Smells like rotting fish and kelp? Oddly fun.

And that might be the best way to go. Sadly I can't remember Lovitar off the top of my head to suggest a "fun" curse that isn't going to ruin your schtick. I'm assuming it's one of those usual quasi BDSM Dominatrix Cleric things like evil goddesses keep tending to be?


Yeah she is the goddess of pain and suffering, wearing bdsm outfit and literally whipping people. Maiden of pains dress the same, bondage attire (leather outfits), scourge/whips and torture devices.

I need something that curses me but doesnt effect pushing the church agenda. They are the one who is applying this curse. So it would affect me I suppose.
Movement penalty is good. Reflex perhaps, I already dont have any to begin with. But I like something that doesnt even have to do with stats - just off the wall RP funny yet can still hurt my group and I.

Extreme Foul Odor that attracts wild beast or attention when we dont need it. etc etc

[Novercalis]

Not sure if this is a good idea

Every time I get hit, I have a X% chance to go into Rage Mode until the entire combat (not the individual I am fighting) is done.
Until then, I am unable to cast spells.

[Rubik]

If someone else is cursing you, what if they cursed you with something that would be really annoying specifically for the cleric of a goddess of pain, such as the inability to feel pain at all?

Of course, this means no penalties from things like Symbols of Pain, but...

[Novercalis]

If someone else is cursing you, what if they cursed you with something that would be really annoying specifically for the cleric of a goddess of pain, such as the inability to feel pain at all?

Of course, this means no penalties from things like Symbols of Pain, but...


It's my church that is cursing me, so that would make no sense for them to do that.

[Novercalis]

but you made me think of - a curse that may be somewhat annoying to me, which is fine and dandy as I'm all for pain n suffering BUT It's EXTREMELY ANNOYING to my party members and I get to watch them all suffer everyday LOL!

I could totally see my Church doing that - win/win

[herrhauptmann]

Polymorph Any Object, if you don't mind Int 10. Or you could go fire elf or gray elf, for Int 12. And the best part about elves is it's impossible for others to tell what gender you are anyway.

Or dwarf. You'd gain 12 Con and Int 10, and still nobody could tell what gender you are.

I wonder if maybe they've been lying to the world the whole time, because elves are just female dwarves.
Or you could PAO into a sarruhk and have a nice fat 30 Int.
'Average' member of the race, right?
For some reason, thought you kept your mental stats.






Poly I dont suffer anything and insulting my goddess, basically lying to her I suppose.
I don't know what you're talking about.
The prereqs I'm looking at say "4ranks intimidate, Feat:Violate Spell. Cast sadism/masochism as divine spells. Serve Loviatar. Female. Use the drug Agony."
Polymorph doesn't deal with any of those except the gender. Please explain what you mean.

[ArcturusV]

I'd go with a Masochist curse. Look up the masochist trait from Book of Vile Darkness perhaps. Perhaps as the only one who's not a "real woman" in the club they decided to put that spin on you. useful in combat because as you get hit, bonuses. Humiliating because as one of these Mistresses of Pain you're supposed to be doing the hitting, not the other way around.

[Rubik]

'Average' member of the race, right?
For some reason, thought you kept your mental stats.Polymorph Any Object specifically grants you the Int score of whatever you're turned into. Not so useful for when you PAO into a human, but it definitely is when you're a sarruhk.

[Segev]

Technically, "Bestow Curse" is the operative spell in the Girdle that you're not able to find. It should be able to do this, by itself.

Perhaps you could suggest a curse that your new state cause you to become Charmed by one of the people in the party that would cause you pain to be in love with. You might be able to overcome it, but Loviator would probably be displeased if you started finding joy in it without converting him (or her?) to the same twisted devotion you hold.

[Novercalis]

'Average' member of the race, right?
For some reason, thought you kept your mental stats.




I don't know what you're talking about.
The prereqs I'm looking at say "4ranks intimidate, Feat:Violate Spell. Cast sadism/masochism as divine spells. Serve Loviatar. Female. Use the drug Agony."
Polymorph doesn't deal with any of those except the gender. Please explain what you mean.

RP wise - By Using Polymorph - I would be insulting all the other Maiden of Pains before me. I would be insulting my goddess as well.
I, a follower of Loviatar must go through a "pain test" - this will be my pain test - being cursed and to live with this curse for the rest of my life. Thus the type of curse must be annoying to me (the character) but one that doesn't affect me doing my job for the church.

[Novercalis]

I'd go with a Masochist curse. Look up the masochist trait from Book of Vile Darkness perhaps. Perhaps as the only one who's not a "real woman" in the club they decided to put that spin on you. useful in combat because as you get hit, bonuses. Humiliating because as one of these Mistresses of Pain you're supposed to be doing the hitting, not the other way around.

I have both Masochism and Sadist and that isnt a curse to me.

Mistress of Pain = Saidst
Follower of Loviatar - We learn to deal with pain, and some (like me) ends up enjoying pain.

[Novercalis]

Technically, "Bestow Curse" is the operative spell in the Girdle that you're not able to find. It should be able to do this, by itself.

Perhaps you could suggest a curse that your new state cause you to become Charmed by one of the people in the party that would cause you pain to be in love with. You might be able to overcome it, but Loviator would probably be displeased if you started finding joy in it without converting him (or her?) to the same twisted devotion you hold.


Well, I am trying to become much more closer to everyone and find out what they cherish the most so I can destroy them LATER in the game.

Actually let me rewind: This is what I am hoping to happen

We finally find a city that has a church of Loviatar (Waterdeep) - I will go in, do my thang, get "fixed" and undergo a Pain Test. Once I pass this pain test, I am qualified to become a Mistress of Pain if I can go through 1 more Pain Test - Bestow Curse and becoming addicted to Liquid Pain.

Once I become a Woman, I return to my group as a whole new name/character. I will explain to them what happened to the other guy and informed them that we have seen everything they have done. I will bull**** them that Special members have a Scourge as a Holy symbol and it allows the Church to Scry in. That is how We know everything. (Thus they will never know I am that same person).

This now allows me to get on the right foot with everyone and no more Party Conflict. Thus I can begin working my agenda on how to hurt everyone eventually.
I will be addicted to Liquid Pain at this point - however only Mildly and it will never grow worse for me. So I will become a Pusher perhaps and/or slip it in their drinks eventually.

[Segev]

Perhaps your cursed to have what you would have been, had you remained a man, haunt you. A reminder that only you can see that keeps reminding you that you're NOT really a woman, and which reacts as you would have as a man to anything it sees you do when you try to become comfortable as a woman. A reminder that you have made a sacrifice of your masculinity.

[Novercalis]

Perhaps your cursed to have what you would have been, had you remained a man, haunt you. A reminder that only you can see that keeps reminding you that you're NOT really a woman, and which reacts as you would have as a man to anything it sees you do when you try to become comfortable as a woman. A reminder that you have made a sacrifice of your masculinity.

Maybe?
Currently I hae amnesia and only recovered several key info. I would assume, my church will "fix" that and turn me more into a puppet / zealot now as a Maiden of Pain. So not sure if that will pass RP wise.

However if it did, I can see that working and maybe take a -1 Will -1 Fort in general AND be more susceptible to Mind Effect spells (addtional -2 modifier)

[Absol197]

I'm not familiar with the classes, and so I'm not sure why your character is so set on this transformation, but a suggestion:

Just because your body changes to be female doesn't mean you become a woman. If your character is a man (i.e. his mental perception, his inner soul is a man) then no curse should be able to change that. The obvious downside to this curse is one that I face every day: being a woman in a man's body (or vice versa, in your character's case, to use a very rough metaphor of the trans experience) is very, very unpleasant. Your character to suffer from severe gender dysphoria, because he's still a man, but his body is now female.

A main symptom of gender dysphoria is major depression (not-so-fun fact: trans people have one of the highest suicide attempt rates of any minority group - somewhere around 30-40% attempt). Mechanically, this depression could be modeled with the fear mechanics - minor triggers make you "shaken," moderate triggers make you "frightened," (seeking to be alone, if possible), and major triggers make you "panicked" (so overwhelmed that you can do nothing but cower and cry/lament your situation). You could work up your own triggers, but common things are when situations force you to confront the realities of how your body doesn't match what your brain expects, social situations where you are constantly and forcefully treated as a person of the wrong gender (being referred to as "she" instead of "he," for example, and being kept out of men's spaces/events because of your sex). And of course, every couple of days the GM could roll to see if a dysphoric bout occurs without outside stimulus (which also happens sometimes).

So, just an idea there. Know for a fact, though, that there's a reason that the effect you're looking for is created with bestow curse. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. If you're looking for the "curse" part, dysphoria is where it's at.


~Phoenix~

[Novercalis]

I'm not familiar with the classes, and so I'm not sure why your character is so set on this transformation, but a suggestion:

Just because your body changes to be female doesn't mean you become a woman. If your character is a man (i.e. his mental perception, his inner soul is a man) then no curse should be able to change that. The obvious downside to this curse is one that I face every day: being a woman in a man's body (or vice versa, in your character's case, to use a very rough metaphor of the trans experience) is very, very unpleasant. Your character to suffer from severe gender dysphoria, because he's still a man, but his body is now female.

A main symptom of gender dysphoria is major depression (not-so-fun fact: trans people have one of the highest suicide attempt rates of any minority group - somewhere around 30-40% attempt). Mechanically, this depression could be modeled with the fear mechanics - minor triggers make you "shaken," moderate triggers make you "frightened," (seeking to be alone, if possible), and major triggers make you "panicked" (so overwhelmed that you can do nothing but cower and cry/lament your situation). You could work up your own triggers, but common things are when situations force you to confront the realities of how your body doesn't match what your brain expects, social situations where you are constantly and forcefully treated as a person of the wrong gender (being referred to as "she" instead of "he," for example, and being kept out of men's spaces/events because of your sex). And of course, every couple of days the GM could roll to see if a dysphoric bout occurs without outside stimulus (which also happens sometimes).

So, just an idea there. Know for a fact, though, that there's a reason that the effect you're looking for is created with bestow curse. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. If you're looking for the "curse" part, dysphoria is where it's at.


~Phoenix~

Thank you! I like it - will pass it on to the DM. I guess it's the matter of when I get "fix" (brainwashed), will they also brainwash my memory of a man, since I already suffered Amnesia (which, as far as I know, WAS caused by my church as part of a Failed brainwash attempt??). If so, this may not work - but maybe something of the opposite.
Because It took them 2 times to brainwash me or 1 brainwash and a random Amnesia - the brainwash wasnt 100% success and I will randomly have weird flashes of being a man or whatever and somehow translate that over mechanically.

[Absol197]

Memory has nothing to do with it. While I'm sure the effects of dysphoria would be multiplied ten-fold if you could remember being the correct sex and then getting switched, having your gender and sex not match is a constant trial. It's an innate thing. You know the first Matrix movie, where Morpheus is explaining that feeling of wrongness to Neo that causes people to try and escape the Matrix? That's what it's like, "Something is wrong - you're not sure what, but it's always there, like a splinter in your mind..."