I have an anger problem [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Elixia

2013-09-09, 05:29 AM

and its not going away despite how much i wish it would and I'm hoping some of you might be able to help me here. You guys have NEVER steered me wrong.

The DnD campaign we finished earlier this year I think took a big toll on me than i thought, the DM, a close friend, dragged my character and subsequently all of the other characters i created around them in the backstory through all 9 hells ... for 2 years. to a point i considered quitting several times but played on because i didn't want to hurt his feelings and 'be that guy' to the other players.

His reasons for it was because I like RP and can be good at it and create in-depth characters so he could feed of that for his stories. But to me I felt like a punchbag by the end of it and I somewhat hoped the reward would compensate for it all. Only to find the reward came with yet another price to pay.

I'm still angry. quietly boiling away.

I should be able to drop this, but i can't. it was just a game. A hobby. but i can't let go of the anger.

As childish as it sounds, its like i handed him my toys and he gave them back broken. Whenever i felt i got a handle on the situations in the games he threw me another nasty surprise because 'thats what DM's do'.

The problem is effecting our friendship and now the current sessions were doing with the new DM (my partner). The new sessions are fun, interesting and a pleasure to play. But with the old DM now a player theres 'back biting' such as him telling me how to RP properly and i have to admit I'm causing it too whenever he pulls a move that endangers the group or derails the session because 'its what his character would do'

He's aware I didn't like his campaign and this is properly causing him to resentment to me too.

I need to sit down and talk to him about this but i need to figure out how without yelling at him because simply trying to 'ride it out' isn't working.

Kesnit

2013-09-09, 05:35 AM

A little more detail would help. You said he drug the party "through the 9 hells." Given that this is D&D, that statement could be literal, though I suspect it is not. What specifically did he do?

With more detail, we can give you more defined things you can say, rather than just ranting at him.

One bit of advice, though. Before you talk to him, practice what you want to say in a mirror. It will get you used to saying and thinking about it without building up your anger, and will let you better form your thoughts into words.

ArcturusV

2013-09-09, 05:41 AM

Well, "In private" would be the first step. You can't talk about something like that in front of the group, even if they agree with you, generally don't like him, etc. It makes people defensive and they lash out and just flatly refuse to listen to anything you say.

Otherwise? You want to stick to the present, not the past. Don't even get into the old game. You can't fix that. Bringing it up will just cause a lot of venom. It's not worth it unless you're the sort of people who can just... bare knuckle box over it, kick each others' butts, and bury the hatchet with a few bruises and cuts, never thinking about it again.

Focus on what's annoying you this game. Ask WHY he's doing it. Remind him that "Because that's what my character does" isn't a good reason if what his character does isn't going along with the rest of the group. It's the same sort of thing you remind the guy who goes around burning orphanages and stabbign random villagers when you try to play a Good Aligned game. It's the same sort of thing you tell the guy who shows up with the Paladin in the Evil party, etc. You gotta adjust things to the group dynamic.

Those would be the points I'd stick to.

Black Jester

2013-09-09, 05:47 AM

The DnD campaign we finished earlier this year I think took a big toll on me than i thought, the DM, a close friend, dragged my character and subsequently all of the other characters i created around them in the backstory through all 9 hells ... for 2 years.

It is D&D, so is the dragging through hell part meant literally or figuratively?

His reasons for it was because I like RP and can be good at it and create in-depth characters so he could feed of that for his stories. But to me I felt like a punchbag by the end of it and I somewhat hoped the reward would compensate for it all. Only to find the reward came with yet another price to pay.

Wait, so your problem is that your GM picked up your back story, included side characters you created and made them relevant for the plot because he respects your input and you are angry about that? I mean would you prefer if he ignored your creations and back story? Without knowing what the concrete contents were, for me this sounds like you are angry at your GM because he tried to do you a favour and you two have different preferences when it comes to certain questions of style.

Elixia

2013-09-09, 05:53 AM

Black Jester

2013-09-09, 06:21 AM

well in for more details I created a character who was the granddaughter of a powerful sorcessor with 5 brothers. In session one he had hags try and eat us, very dark stuff. by session 3 he had the hags and their boss, the BBEG, kidnapped HER ENTIRE FAMILY, save her youngest brother and grandfather. the plot rolled out to a 'save the world' fantasy epic with even an very dark 18+ moment (again to me). by a year 1/2 i still have no clue on the whereabouts of her family accept the occasional taunt from the hags that they're dead then he kidnapped her grandfather who was key to uncovering the plot.
me and partner had a romance subplot going on (as it happens) and with his character in a kingmaker quest, then a bombshell is landed. because the order of sorcerers she's with if she stays with him she'll lose all powers. Oh THEN he killed the grandfather off too.

Admittedly that doesn't sound that horrible to me (okay, my reaction would probably be something like "why must all this delicious family drama and personal tragedies be interrupted by yet another saving the world plot?") but tastes differ and it is quite possible that they do not overlap so much, especially when it comes to darker or more tragic elements.
So I had this "why must the campaign be so dark" argument before and it tends to be a lot about perceptions and nuances, because it is so easy to create the wrong impression of a false duality between "carebear afternoon special" and as "grimdark as possible"; usually most games are not one of these extremes. So it is usually helpful to differentiate and to put the whole affair into proportion, look what elements worked for you and which ones went too far so you have a balanced argument. And you could also include some more concrete suggestions for specific scenes that could have been solved better.

And the easiest solution would be: run a game yourself. If you enjoy creating NPCs, storylines and the like you might actually be quite well equipped for doing so.

Black Jester, I can see where your coming from and yes at the beginning i was cool with it because i like the idea he wanted to use my stuff. but by the end it didn't just USE it, he destroyed it.

Yes, but as soon as the NPCs are a part of the game, they aren't yours anymore. They are story elements and either have a purpose for the plot or the atmosphere or they aren't that relevant actually. Building characters and sceneries for an RPG is not like building a diorama; there is supposed to be a dynamic to the people and the events and they are supposed to change, but most importantly, they are a means to an end, namely to forward the story and establish a moot for the game.

Elixia

2013-09-09, 06:43 AM

Yes, but as soon as the NPCs are a part of the game, they aren't yours anymore. They are story elements and either have a purpose for the plot or the atmosphere or they aren't that relevant actually. Building characters and sceneries for an RPG is not like building a diorama; there is supposed to be a dynamic to the people and the events and they are supposed to change, but most importantly, they are a means to an end, namely to forward the story and establish a moot for the game.

I do hear you on this one, I made a new character and gave her a very blank cookie cutter background. The last campaign i think was a nasty hard lesson to not do in-depth backstories.

One of the things thou that started to 'get me' was a throwaway comment or passage in a book my character heard/read over 4 months previous would somehow become the only weak spot to an enemy. bear in mind he had 5 evil generals and BBEG hundreds of NPC's to keep track of. And would get pissy at me if i couldn't remember. on TWO occasions he never left the dam clue and lost it because 'we should know this'!

I have actually made and run a few campaigns before and am dying to do so again. Not blowing my trumpet but some of the group have said they love my campaigns, the balance of story and gameplay is quite rewarding when done right, plus I love to act out NPC's ... I just wish the players wouldn't spend so long in my markets! ;P
I have offered the current DM 'breathing room' if he needs it and i have a throwaway seafaring quest for the group.

I could've dealt with tragedy on the last if I had some respite, but it just kept piling up. Also given that every NPC we met spare a few just seemed to hate our guts.

This helping getting it clear of my head thou.

Segev

2013-09-09, 07:25 AM

If it helps, I can see where your displeasure comes from. You had these character-driven reasons to want to do certain things (save your family, be with your IC lover), but no matter what, you couldn't ever do it. You were never allowed, in this personal plot line, to win.

In the DM's defense, he may have thought he was introducing and maintaining dramatic tension. That if you rescued your family, it would be like having the romantic leads get married halfway through the first season, with all alternate potential romantic partners respecting that. It can be done, but typically it ends the popularity of shows where it happens because the writers don't manage to maintain the dramatic tension.

Similarly, he probably introduced the Sorcery order's thing in order to make it a dramatic choice. He probably could have done it on the lover's side of things, rather than your PC's, but for whatever reason he didn't.

In the end, you gave up because you didn't feel like you were being allowed to play so much as that you were existing to suffer. And you didn't build a character with taht intent. (It's possible to enjoy that kind of RP; I personally wouldn't, myself, because I play PCs to succeed at stuff in grand and dramatic ways, so if my plotlines never let me win, I'd lose interest, as well. But there are people who enjoy building PCs who will suffer, suffer some more, and just when you think they're about to find some solace, discover yet another obstacle. Some do it because they like the character becoming harder and tougher and more resolute. Some enjoy the idea of the character who just can't win. I'm not one of those people, generally speaking.)

Were this still going on, I'd suggest having a long sit-down talk with the DM about why you're unhappy, and how you'd like to have some chance to succeed, to have some light enter your character's life that isn't immediately stained with smog.

As it is, you do need to do your best to put that behind you. Obviously, the baggage still bugs you, but you need to focus on what's going on now, and have a private discussion with this other player. Explain to him what he's doing now that's making it hard for you to enjoy the game, and ask him if you're doing anything that's doing the same to him. Do your best to remain calm. You know you're mad, so don't act on it. Don't get defensive, and if he gets defensive, keep forcing yourself to come back to the central point that you're trying to find a solution. How the two of you can play together without causing further irritation, rather than whose fault it is that you're (both?) irritated.

Platymus Pus

2013-09-09, 07:39 AM

Have your PC go nuts killing everything.
Laugh madly as you do so.
That should vent some anger:smallamused:

hymer

2013-09-09, 07:49 AM

Just in case you haven't thought of this possibility: Take a break. Tell your DM that you're looking to take a break from playing, so the game doesn't suffer too badly, and then walk away for a while.
It's not a solution in itself, but it does help get the anger to quiet down in everyone. Take three months, maybe. Then you can better come back and try and get everyone on the same page, so the frustration doesn't mount again.

Edit: And don't be afraid to say you're sorry for the disruption and accept your share of the responsibility. If you feel you have none, invent some to take on yourself (like "I should have spoken out before it turned this ugly."). Weird as it sounds, I find it really works.

Elixia

2013-09-09, 08:04 AM

Segev, yeah i don't like my characters too dark. more firey & spunky or at the opposite side cute & demure.
I did actually raise the issue with him several times in game when he said he try and fix it. but sometimes it was 1 step forward 2 steps back when the next curve ball hit and he would revert back to raining tragedy on us.

I do have to curve that anger. in the last game his character was being highly irrational (he failing a spellcraft check and thought the villagers were being vaporized, then proceeded to run screaming through the streets for everyone to run for their lives. IT should of been a simple 'there's magic here must be that witches coven we know about nearby' plot fluff) and nothing our group could do to stop him, diplomacy did not work (thou you shouldn't have to do that to another PC!) and if we tried to knock him out or carry him off his Aidelon would of attacked us. So I browsing the internet on my phone to try and bite my tongue. it was funny at first but the session just stalled for 45 minutes while we tried to deal with this.

the session didn't start so well when in the first 1 minute I in character told my superior, the General, 'our last quest was a success' and he turned on me and told me that saying quest wasn't very rp ... i should of said mission

Platymus Pus; I have the the highest str and con in the group plus a greatsword ... no one could stop me! plus technically i do kill everything ;) so far this meat shield has been the biggest DPS! (thou that might be due to poor dice rolls on the groups behalf)

Elixia

2013-09-09, 08:07 AM

oh hymer, yeah. we have a month break on now anyway. life stuff. But I will put my hand up and say that lately I have been 'argumetive' that why i need to wrestle this green beast into submission

Segev

2013-09-09, 08:16 AM

You need to have a word with him about both kinds of behavior.

...actually, you shoudl talk to the DM and see what he thinks about the stupid over-acting "role-playing" of a failed spellcraft check. If he's fine with it, you need to let him know why it bugs you, and ask him to look into whether you're the only one. But in my personal opinion, a failed spellcraft check, just like a successful one, typically results in the DM telling the player what his character "thinks" about it. Not his emotional reaction, but, "you think this kind of magic does such-and-such."

You should probably also talk to this player about the whole "create problems for the party and then attack them if they try to stop you" issue. Assuming the other PCs are equally annoyed as you, this kind of behavior, while it won't warrant murder by the other PCs, would warrant kicking his out of the party. "No, you're not coming with us on our next quest."

You DEFINITELY need to talk to him about the "it's not very RP; you should have said 'mission,'" nonsense. "Quest" is as RP as anything else, and it's YOUR business, not his, what your character thinks of things as. They're called "quests" in RPGs because the traditional medieval thing was to consider them QUESTS. If anything, "mission" is the more modern word.

But that's still beside the point.

Though, if he's going to do that and then wave the "but that's what my character would do!" flag when he's being disruptive, perhaps you should turn that on him.

"You should have said 'mission' instead of 'quest.'" "No, saying 'quest' is what my character would do."

If he tries to argue THAT, shrug and ignore for the nonce, then, next time he disrupts with a "role playing" behavior, tell him that that is not, in fact, what his character would do, and use similar reasons he tried to use to tell you why yours wouldn't act that way.

Don't just do this passive-aggressively, either. TALK to him about it before or after the game, and use it as an example. You're illustrating what he's doing and why it's irksome by mimicking the behavior. If you talk to him before hand, rather than mimicking it directly in game, instead say, "See, this is sort-of like when I said 'quest' and you thought I should say 'mission;' I don't think this is in character for yours. Worse, though, your character's behavior is that of a madman which will cause deep problems for the party, and we have to restrain our characters' in-character reactions not to kick yours out of the party. Whereas I doubt my character saying 'quest' is actually disrupting anything, IC or OOC."

Vertharrad

2013-09-09, 08:49 AM

the session didn't start so well when in the first 1 minute I in character told my superior, the General, 'our last quest was a success' and he turned on me and told me that saying quest wasn't very rp ... i should of said mission

Everyone else has covered helping you with your problem...so I'm being nitpicky, you should have said mission but characters do know what a quest is...there is the spell gaes/quest you know.

Segev

2013-09-09, 08:52 AM

Nah, she "should have said" whatever her character would think of it as.

Elixia

2013-09-09, 08:56 AM

well this character is a farm girl from the country. Killing rats in a inn basement would be a heroic quest!

I know that in game a geas can give you a compulsory quest to do but I don't think King Arthur was under one of these when he looked for the holy grail. Personally I saw quest as an old terms for mission.

John Longarrow

2013-09-09, 12:18 PM

Elixia,

For ingame issue, especially where a player is being disruptive to the group, having the DM address the behavior often works best. This can be especially true if the DM checks with the rest of the group first to see if they also have the same opinion.

If you, as a player, try to address your former DM's behavior I'm betting they won't pay it much mind. If your current DM sits down and describes how this player is disrupting the game, that holds a lot of weigh.

Since you already have issues with this person, the DM will also be able to be impartial. Were I you I'd be giving the DM all of my observations and ask them to talk to the other player. Hopefully this doesn't involve the "Straighten up or leave" option, but as the DM is the only one who can put that out most players are more willing to listen.

Other than that, I think Segev hit the rest of the points I could make.

GoodbyeSoberDay

2013-09-09, 01:03 PM

First, I don't think anyone will see the DM as impartial in this case.

What does your partner think about the old game and the former DM? If your partner agrees with your assessment of the game and the DM's treatment of you, why did your partner invite the DM to the new game in the first place? I'm guessing friend politics.

In any case given there's bad blood*, and given that he irritates you with pedantic RP criticism and (as Segev pointed out) ridiculous counterproductive over-acting at the table, it may be that you two shouldn't game together. If gaming with him isn't fun, it's not worth it. Talk to your partner about your frustrations. People close to you and the situation are going to be able to give better advice than we are.

*I would have talked to the DM the first time one of my plot hooks got mangled, then left after the second offense, but assuming I stuck it out for whatever reason I'd have bad blood too.

Gigas Breaker

2013-09-09, 01:37 PM

Be evil and go after his character's family and the first time he says anything about it punch him square in the nose.

Nah, don't do that, but maybe suggest that he worry about his own character and keep his rp criticisms to himself. React in character whenever he endangers the party. Maybe have everybody's character have a meeting with him about it. It's what your characters would do after all.

Deophaun

2013-09-09, 01:48 PM

Write an email to the DM regarding your displeasure. Let it all out, everything you want to say.

Then delete the email.

Write it again, and now lay out your points, be civil, but still say what you want to say.

Then delete the email.

Write it again, and delete again. Only when youyou re-read your email and find that there are no cheap shots, no sly digs at his DMing, no rage simmering underneath, and, most importantly, that you aren't trying to "win" anything (which can include emotional satisfaction that you told him off or showed him how wrong he was), then you can either send it, or talk to him face to face.

Yogibear41

2013-09-09, 02:19 PM

Once had a player character, who more or less always endangered the party one way or another, like intentionally sleeping through his watch, casting fireballs in the middle of a dry grass field where it hadn't rained in days, etc. We tried beating him tying him up and leaving him in the middle of a dungeon while we went to finish the rest of it by ourselves. In the end nothing ever changed. He eventually betrayed my characters lycanthropic nature aka werewolf to the town guards in one city we were in causing the rest of the party to flee to another town for a time being. I even decided to leave the party with that character and stride out on his own. Well things happened and he ended back together with the party and with the troublesome other character. More or less he went about his old antics and after several warnings(I thought it was quite generous on my part, and probably out of character to do so) I killed him, while the rest of the party was "on the way to save him" cleric was 10 ft away but it took him like 4 rounds to get there ha ha, and so I took my first steps into a CE alignment and ran gallivanting off into the wilderness alone never to look back.

Ironically my new PC was with the group and I had to "fight myself" after the werewolf killed the sorcerer. Was pretty funny if you ask me.

TuggyNE

2013-09-09, 05:37 PM

Yogibear41

2013-09-09, 05:40 PM

I also agree with the 3+ email approach, my story didn't really help you with your problem at all sorry about that, you shouldn't do what I did he he, it was actually going to be the guys last game anyway because he was moving, so that had alot to do with why I did it.

Totema

2013-09-09, 06:05 PM

Sounds like a classic case of Diabolus ex Machina. It's a bad DM habit no matter how it shakes down, but how this should play out will depend on one thing: Did your DM do similarly bad things to the rest of the group?

If yes, then it just sounds to me like your DM needs to work on storytelling skills. Sudden, inexplicable tragedy doesn't make a good character motivator, as you're clearly expressing. But if no... then it sounds more like he has some personal issues with you, and they ought to get worked out before the next campaign.

Elvenoutrider

2013-09-09, 06:11 PM

Seems like your gm may be channeling a good amount of george rr martin. I definitely second the taking a break and writing out the email multiple times. Talk to your gm about how you would have had more fun with the last campaign if there had been some respite. Tell him you think there can be a happy middle ground. Then, run your own campaign, have him write a back story and run the campaign your way. Lead by example as much as possible, or write a campaign with him as a co-writer and have him play an pc secretly working for the bbeg. this will let you both merge writing styles a bit and you can see what makes your friend tick.

Seems like this situation can be solved by a simple nudge in the right direction, no reason to give up the hobby over it.

Red Fel

2013-09-09, 09:47 PM

It sounds to me like your GM was running a "dark, edgy, tragedy" campaign. This in itself is not a bad thing - plenty of players can enjoy powerful catharsis from an experience like that. (It's why people go to tragic plays, movies, etc.)

The problem is, it sounds like you didn't want to be in a dark, edgy tragedy. It sounds like that's not your ideal genre.

This strikes me as a communication problem, on both ends. As a rule, a player should be willing to ask the GM about the tone of the game. Similarly, the GM should be open with his intended tone, and be willing to compromise if it's not to the players' choosing. A good campaign is a collaborative effort between players and GM, after all.

This isn't to invalidate your frustration or anger. Clearly, you felt ambushed by the actions taken against your character, her backstory, her family, etc. It's entirely possible, however, that the GM intended from the beginning to motivate his players through suffering. Is he at fault for not communicating that fact? Yes. But take this moment to consider that one of the first questions you should ask a GM next time - whenever next time may be - is "What is the tone of the game?"

I agree with the above posters. Find a way to deal with your anger. Find a way to, in a civil and constructive manner, explain your feelings to the GM. And then learn from the experience.

GoodbyeSoberDay

2013-09-09, 11:08 PM

This strikes me as a communication problem, on both ends.It was, until the OP explicitly told the DM that he didn't want it to be so tragic and edgy, and the DM continued to make it that way.

Captnq

2013-09-09, 11:48 PM

Copy this and rewrite it to fit your style:

It's called "Railroading".

This is when it doesn't matter what you do, the outcome is already determined. Like a train on a railroad, you can go faster or slower, you might even be able to stop for a while, but you can't get off the train and it only goes in one direction.

Railroading isn't always bad. Most movies are like that. You damn well know the hero isn't going to die. You know the villian will get his come-upance. The problem is, you wanted to be "edgy". So the railroad went to a dark and horrible place, which isn't bad, except that we weren't playing World of Darkness. We were playing D&D. D&D is about heroes. You wanna run a campaign of non-stop angst, run Vampire.

I expressed displeasure a few times and you just kept railroading, never allowing anything we tried to work. That's fine for a world of darkness campaign, but what you ran wasn't my idea of fun.

It's over. I'm done with it. Moving On.
However, you aren't, apparently.

You keep trying to control me, even though you are a player now. Stop it. I'm done with the railroading. I swear to a god I don't even believe in that I shall do something we will both regret if you continue to tell me how to play my PC.

If you have a problem, get over it. If you wanted me to enjoy your game, you failed. Not me. You.

"It is a poor communicator who blames his audience for failing to understand him."

I failed in explaining how unhappy I was. You failed in making your game enjoyable. Now we are playing with a New DM. Stop being a psychic vampire and just play your own PC. Stop dragging the rest of the party around on your ego trip. I don't know what deep seated need drives you to keep manipulating me, and I do not care. I'm not your therapist. This is not group therapy. We're here to have fun.

Start having fun without draining it from everyone else around you.

That seems to be what you are saying. Yes, it's harsh, but I'm a rip-the-band-aid-off kinda guy.

Nightgaun7

2013-09-10, 12:04 AM

Seems like you're investing in and identifying with your characters too much. You should be prepared for your character to die or suffer tragedy, be it from the whim of the dice or the plotting of the GM, without letting it affect you in real life.

Yahzi

2013-09-10, 05:45 AM

The best revenge is living well.

I also really like the 3 emails approach. That's a great technique for just about any situation.

With practice, I've gotten it down to where I only have to write 2 emails/posts before I can hit send. :smallbiggrin:

Dr. Yes

2013-09-10, 09:23 AM

It sounds like there's some OOC stuff going on with this guy that's maybe not so nice. Obviously we're only getting one perspective here, but it sounds like he's the kind of person who's really into "acting out" to get reactions, whether in the guise of roleplaying or creating cheap story drama. If that's so, I guarantee you're not the only one who's noticed and finds it irritating. Talk to the other people around the table after a session sometime. Find out where they stand on his antics so that you have an idea of where they'll come down if you choose to confront him.

The best revenge is living well.

A common misconception. The best revenge is actually living well while having your enemies discredited and ostracized.