PT - Question - How can caster cleric do damage?

[Letric]

Simple question.

Do Caster Cleric do damage?

My party is the following:

TWF Rogue with Daggers that add DEX to damage, he's hitting: +12/+12 1d3+7/ 1d3+3 plus Sneak Attack

Summoner with Eidolon

Wildshaping Druid, newbie, doesn't know much about the game

Me.

Our frontline would be the Rogue and the Druid, but in all honesty the druid being such new to the game doesn't have balls enough to stand up.

We recently faced a Red Dragon, our whole party just ran. We didn't even try to hit the Dragon. Our rogue didn't have ANY ranged weapons. Our druid just casted Resistance (yes, orison level 0 spell) and our Summoner tried to hit the dragon with Short Bow, rolled a 4 and that was it.

We're facing the Dragon again with more prepared spells. I had Resistance Communal, that's less 20 Fire damage, but still no on fought the Dragon.

I'm not sure if we're missing damage, if I should be doing more damage or what.

My kit is aimed at buffing allies, having strong heals if needed (I know I'm not a bandaid and I've been trying to tell my party that heals in combat are bad) and some Save-Suck spells, but not many.

So, any help on how you would run a caster cleric?

I have a 50tf Land Speed, I can easily move on the Battlefield, I have 21 AC.

[Urpriest]

In general your job as a caster cleric is not to do damage, except maybe through summoning. I don't even know if Pathfinder has support for cleric-based blasting.

The problem here is that dragons are pretty much the hardest thing for a caster cleric to fight. They're big, so summons can't grapple them, and they've got high AC which further limits the effectiveness of summons. They've got great saves and spell resistance, which makes it tough to lay a save or suck on them, especially since their worst save, Reflex, has save-or-sucks that almost always only work on smaller foes.

Here, you need to focus on buffing your party. I don't know what level you're at, but if it's available Protection from Energy (Communal) is a better choice, since Dragonbreath is a once per combat thing. Make sure your allies can hit, and make sure they can get close enough to melee the dragon (summon flying mounts, Air Walk Communal, whatever you can with that). The Eidolon should be a beast in melee, make sure it gets up there. Beyond that, make sure the melee folks have AC as high as you can get it, and attack bonus as high as you can get it.

[Letric]

Ok.

I'm not really that familiar with Bestiary but this Dragon was using his Flame Breath every single round.

The Resist Energy Communal was handy, really.

Yes, I had spells to buff my allies. I have had fly, but no one stood up to fight the dragon, maybe it caught us by surprise.

My main worry is that since I'm not dealing damage our party will eventually die. I have tons of way to escape (hello Dimension Door) so it's not really a problem for me.

I just wanted to check if there are ways to lower his Saves without Save (lol) or something like that

[Psyren]

Domains are the key to adding damage/offensive spells to the cleric list, particularly at low levels. However, you only get one domain slot per level per day.

One way around this limitation is the Theologian archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo---cleric-archetypes/theologian), which lets you prepare domain spells in your regular slots. Combine that with an offensive domain like Water, Weather or Smoke and you'll have plenty of attack spells you can use. (Note that you can't spontaneously convert any of these to healing however.)

[Letric]

I was afraid about that.

I already went Healing and Travel domains. I know Healing is not the best optimization, but in PF there aren't as many ways to heal as in 3.5, for example no Healing Belt and if I'm using an action to heal, at least I want it to be significant > I get free empower with all Cure "..."

I want to be sure I'm doing all I can to help my party. I'm no a mix maxer nor expert in team fights but I'm usually prepare for everything.

I have like 15 Scrolls for every situation. Except Confusion, you don't get a Remove Confusion. Of course our DM sent a creature with that as spell like ability :smalleek:

[Psyren]

I was afraid about that.

I already went Healing and Travel domains. I know Healing is not the best optimization, but in PF there aren't as many ways to heal as in 3.5, for example no Healing Belt and if I'm using an action to heal, at least I want it to be significant > I get free empower with all Cure "..."

Can't you Channel Energy for that though? Especially with Quick Channeling, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/quick-channel) which lets you heal everyone as a move action and still cast spells.

You'll help your party more in most cases by buffing them and debuffing/controlling the enemy than you will healing after the fact; using your spells this way and your Channel to patch up the damage that gets through should be more effective.


Except Confusion, you don't get a Remove Confusion.

Sure you do! (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dispel-magic)

[Letric]

I only have 3 uses of Channel and I'm the only one being able to heal.

I fear we might die in combat, since my party is not experienced, therefore they might take several times no the proper decision in combat.

We have a Druid, but he's been casting Resistance (level 0) spell in combat. And he has not ever prepared a healing spell in his arsenal.

So I'm sticking with Healing mostly for that, and I've already used it and told the DM, so that would be like cheating :P

I remember I think I did try Dispel Magic, didn't work. I hated that confusion.

Guess I'm stuck with protecting an buffing allies. I don't think summoning is worth it without feats.

[aeauseth]

I personally don't like caster clerics. The damage output is typically sub-par compared to other classes. Your great at fixing damage, curses, debuffs, etc. If you really want to go the caster only route, then look at some reserve feats.

I prefer a battle cleric. You might buff before the fight, and heal after the fight, but during combat you pretend to be a fighter. Your AC should be similar to a fighters (see Armor Class Guide (http://aaronwiki.us/index.php?title=Armor_Class_Guide)). Your to hit is low, but once you can cast Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) your almost as effective as a tank + more versatility with your spells.

Obviously you can still heal or fix curses during the fight if absolutely necessary.

[Urpriest]

You're able to communicate with the other players both IC and OOC. Since you know you'll be fighting the Dragon, you should have a battle plan that uses all of their capabilities to their fullest. Remember: when you're buffing, your allies are your primary weapon.

[Letric]

I personally don't like caster clerics. The damage output is typically sub-par compared to other classes. Your great at fixing damage, curses, debuffs, etc. If you really want to go the caster only route, then look at some reserve feats.

I prefer a battle cleric. You might buff before the fight, and heal after the fight, but during combat you pretend to be a fighter. Your AC should be similar to a fighters (see Armor Class Guide (http://aaronwiki.us/index.php?title=Armor_Class_Guide)). Your to hit is low, but once you can cast Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) your almost as effective as a tank + more versatility with your spells.

Obviously you can still heal or fix curses during the fight if absolutely necessary.

Well, my PC was a Malcovoker Cleric in 3.5, he was heading that way as a Cloisterec Cleric.

We switched to PF and I wasn't going to go Melee Cleric, because it would ruin the concept.
I'm not really a "blaster" per se, I happen to have a high WIS (23 at level 7) which allows me to have good DC for Spells.
I'm a resourceful Cleric with lots of Knowledge and many spells. I'm the guy who knows what abilities a Dragon, enemy has, what can we expect in the Underdark, etc.
I happen to be decent as well at healing and I move very fast on the Battlefield (50ft) I was wondering if there are actually any good spells for damage or CCing an enemy

[Letric]

You're able to communicate with the other players both IC and OOC. Since you know you'll be fighting the Dragon, you should have a battle plan that uses all of their capabilities to their fullest. Remember: when you're buffing, your allies are your primary weapon.

We're doing this, indeed. I think I need to assume more of a leader role in combat.
I did it on first round, asking everyone to gather around me to cast Resist Energy Communal, but then everyone got lost somewhere else :smallbiggrin:

[Urpriest]

Well, my PC was a Malcovoker Cleric in 3.5, he was heading that way as a Cloisterec Cleric.

We switched to PF and I wasn't going to go Melee Cleric, because it would ruin the concept.
I'm not really a "blaster" per se, I happen to have a high WIS (23 at level 7) which allows me to have good DC for Spells.
I'm a resourceful Cleric with lots of Knowledge and many spells. I'm the guy who knows what abilities a Dragon, enemy has, what can we expect in the Underdark, etc.
I happen to be decent as well at healing and I move very fast on the Battlefield (50ft) I was wondering if there are actually any good spells for damage or CCing an enemy

On that front, there are a couple nice elements for Summoner Clerics in PF, so the whole Malconvoker part of the concept doesn't have to go away. With Sacred Summoning they can standard action summon monsters of their alignment subtypes, for example. But it sounds like, even if you plan to invest in it, you haven't done so yet.

[Letric]

On that front, there are a couple nice elements for Summoner Clerics in PF, so the whole Malconvoker part of the concept doesn't have to go away. With Sacred Summoning they can standard action summon monsters of their alignment subtypes, for example. But it sounds like, even if you plan to invest in it, you haven't done so yet.

Nope. Didn't go that way because we had already a Summoner and a Druid. I thought we had enough Summons on that side.

I'm quite happy with my Cleric, problem is I don't deal damage. I don't care about that either, but sometimes perception at party is that I do "nothing", because I'm not dealing damage.

Maybe it's how I behave in team fights. Sometimes I recognize that the enemy is not that dangerous so I don't burn my high level spells and hold them. Usually I also delay action until I have more information on hidden enemies and how the fight could evolve.

[Eldariel]

There're some good spells for a caster Cleric. Your level is of pivotal importance tho. The important part is finding combat spells that aren't overleveled for their utility on the Cleric spell list. I wrote a listing of Core Cleric Combat spells in 3.5 once; it's fairly transmittable to PF:
Offense:
Level 1
Cause Fear: Nice Will Save-or-Lose as long as the HD limit isn't a problem; unfortunately single-target. Close range.
Command: Nice Will Save-or-Suck. Again, though, single-target. Close range.

Level 2
Hold Person: Humanoid SoL. Handy. Medium range.
Shatter: Destroy weapons, armor, etc. Nice combination with Dispels and such. Close range.
Silence: Caster Will SoL, or no-save effect if you have some control effects to prevent opponent from leaving the covered area. Also, nice readied action to screw spellcasting. Long range (!!) multi-target.
Sound Burst: Meh damage, with Fort-or-Stun. If you have someone to CDG the stunned guy, it's alright. The damage isn't the reason to pick it. Close range multi-target.
Spiritual Weapon: It's a decent damage spell, especially since Cleric BAB is pretty good; it'll keep attacking for effectively the entire combat and it takes only a move action to redirect.

Level 3
Bestow Curse: Will SoS. Clerics have lots of these. Good for debuffing Planar Bound creatures or such. Touch range.
Blindness/Deafness: Blindness is an excellent debuff. Fort SoS basically. Medium range.
Dispel Magic: Magic is very powerful, so ability to stop magic is absolutely incredible. Disable Fighter's gear, remove buffbots buffs, save your allies from variety of SoLs, infinitely powerful. Medium range multi-target.
Invisibility Purge: Well, not really offense, but still. 5'/level range.
Searing Light: Deals crap damage to living or slightly less crap damage to undead. Yuck. Medium range ray.

Level 4
Dimensional Anchor: Well, only way you'll ever kill those outsiders. Medium range.
Dismissal: Basically amounts to a limited Will SoD. Close range. It's nice 'cause you can make it notably harder than normal spell of yours to resist by using stuff the target hates with the spell.
Poison: Fort Save-or-BeHurtBad. Meh. Touch range. Yuck.

Level 5
Greater Command: Multitarget Command that lasts until they make a save. Pretty useful, if high level. Close range, 30' between victims, mind-affecting.
Plane Shift: Everyone knows of the spells transportation capabilities, but as long as your target cannot Plane Shift, sending someone to say...Positive Energy Plane is a very good way of killing people. Basically a Will SoD with Touch Range.
Slay Living: Fort SoD with some consolation damage. Touch.
Symbol of Pain: Symbols are fun. Paint a bunch of 'em on some item, reveal it and watch opposition roll saves. Rubber balls are pretty nice, for example. Your armor is a good place too. This one is practically a SoS.
Symbol of Sleep: See above. Nice little slumberparty here. Though Mind-Affecting begins to be a problem on these levels.

Level 6
Banishment: Like Dismissal, except stronger.
Blade Barrier: Meh, it's a solid battlefield morphing ability that's also Ref-or-Take-Some-Damage. Not bad. Medium range.
Greater Dispel Magic: See Dispel Magic.
Harm: Fort or Take Damage. Meh. Fine for e.g. channeling tho. Touch.
Symbol of Fear: See Symbol of Pain. Basically SoL version. Annoyingly Mind-Affecting.
Symbol of Persuasion: See Symbol of Pain. Basically SoL version. Annoyingly Mind-Affecting.
Undeath to Death: Great for killing undead. Medium range 40' bunch.

Level 7
Blasphemy/Dictum/Holy Word/Word of Chaos: Boost your caster level and world will tremble. No-save death or at least be screwed depending on your CL. Only SR can save people here (and with your buffed CL, rarely).
Destruction: Fort SoD. Close range. Nice 10d6 consolation damage.
Dimensional Lock: Like Dimensional Anchor, except gotta somehow restrict opponent's movement, but it offers no save.
Symbol of Stunning: See Symbol of Pain, SoL version.
Symbol of Weakness: See Symbol of Pain, SoS version (most characters can't carry their stuff after that Fort-damage).

Level 8
Earthquake: A rather versatile offense spell that can be used to lock down opponents or such depending on terrain. Damage isn't impressive but the conditions it can impose, often without save, are. Also nicely stops activity while it's going. If DM says the save stops the Pinned-condition too, it becomes much worse.
Fire Storm: Deals a bunch of damage. Meh.
Symbol of Death: See Symbol of Pain, SoD version.
Symbol of Insanity: See Symbol of Pain, Will SoD version. Meh at mind-affecting.

Level 9
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Gate: Solars are good.
Implosion: Boom Boom. Kinda expensive, but at least it can kill multiple folks.
Field Alteration + Ally Generation:
Level 1
Obscuring Mist: Nice way to stop annoying targeted spells, archery and such. Gives melee full miss chance thoo. Limits yourself too tho. Personal range.
Summon Monster I: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 2
Darkness: Older version of Darkness. Touch range, can toss the object or such.
Summon Monster II: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 3
Animate Dead: Material components are kinda meh. Eternally usable and faithful underlings are pretty handy though, if you can afford them.
Daylight: Mostly when dealing with Underdark races, Undead and such. Touch like Darkness.
Deeper Darkness: Sorta like Darkness. Unfortunately, it's not as Dark as it should be. Fogs >>> Darkness. Touch like Darkness.
Stone Shape: I don't honestly need to state in how many ways morphing stone can be useful, do I? Touch.
Summon Monster III: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Wind Wall: Pretty nice especially in larger conflicts where large squads of archers are a concern. There are pretty few ways archers can by RAW shoot through this, though you could argue that big enough bows and force projectiles would.

Level 4
Control Water: Very nice when water is available for drowning places, killing waterbreathing creatures in shallow waters and such. Just, useful. Long range.
Giant Vermin: You shouldn't really bother with anything less than Gargantuans, but with CL buffs those are available pretty quickly and particularly Colossal Scorpion is very efficient even against CR 20 challenges as long as the area is thus that they cannot just fly away (you can help with that); they have very high Attack-stats and the poisons are extremely potent.
Lesser Planar Ally: Solid allies, even if it's expensive to call. Try to call 'em when it falls under the "strongly ties to creature's ethos"; that's free and the XP cost isn't really that major. And Outsiders are pretty darn good allies.
Summon Monster IV: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 5
Insect Plague: Swarms are hardy, but unfortunately not very damaging at this point anymore. The Distraction-function is handy, but beyond that it's not very good. Long range tho.
Summon Monster V: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Wall of Stone: One of Wizard's best battlefield control spells is no worse for Cleric. Isolate enemies, buy time, block entries, make death prisons, whatever. Reflex if used to encase people. Medium range.

Level 6
Animate Object: Unfortunately Animated Objects have horrible BAB and such so they don't hit much. The special attacks are somewhat usable tho. Generally best with Permanency. Medium range.
Antilife Shell: A very strong defensive buff, here because you can morph the battlefield with it. Living creatures simply can't approach the area around you. NO SAVE! 10' radius.
Create Undead: Some of the undead are very useful. This is an expensive spell, but as the undead can multiply, provided it's not against your alignment, this can be very very handy.
Planar Ally: See Lesser Planar Ally.
Summon Monster VI: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 7
Control Weather: Slow to cast, but great for demolishing armies, cities and such. Not quite as strong as the 5th level Druid-spell Control Winds, but much more versatile.
Repulsion: Like Antilife Shell vs. anything, but with Will-save to negate. I don't like it nearly as much.
Summon Monster VII: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 8
Antimagic Field: Magic's good, all that jazz. Also, Initiate of Mystra makes this the most one-sided, unfair spell ever. 10' radius (suggest Widening; see Rules Compendium for relevant stuff regarding rules on this, it always confuses people).
Create Greater Undead: See Create Undead.
Summon Monster VIII: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 9
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Gate: Solars are good.
Summon Monster IX: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Defense + Buff:
Level 1
Bless: Not amazing, but every bonus is a bonus. The more characters, the better.
Endure Elements: Eh, obvious utility.
Magic Stone: Handy buff for Sling-users. Note that sling is a solid ranged level 1 weapon for high Str types, being quite light, almost free and adding Str to damage.
Magic Weapon: Handy buff for anyone. If a bit small.
Protection from Alignment: Great buff, stops all mind control in addition to solid Deflection/Resistance.
Sanctuary: Obvious utility, you aren't attacking anyways, so... Also can be used to protect another, who's about to go down.
Shield of Faith: Touch-spell that grants nice Deflection-bonus to AC.

Level 2
Aid: Mostly just Bless with few additional Temp HP. Pretty weak beyond the first levels.
Align Weapon: Occasionally absolutely crucial with early opponents packing some pesky DRs.
Bull's Strength & al.: Handy early on.
Resist Energy: Great vs. casters and energy-based creatures and just environment.

Level 3
Magic Circle against Alignment: Like Protection, except area-of-effect and stops summoned creatures and such. Handy. 10' area.
Magic Vestment: One of the best buffs in the game, allows you to, especially in conjuction with Animated Shields and such, give everyone decent AC. Use with caster level boosters for early +5s all day.
Meld into Stone: Fine "Invisibility"-substitute that's not trumped by most spells. It's hard to detect your presence without heavy magical scanning.
Prayer: Short-duration Bless (with Luck-bonus tho) and a penalty to enemies. Meh.
Protection from Energy: Like Resist Energy except complete immunity to certain threshold. I prefer Resist Energy though sometimes, when taking huge blazing balls of fire, this is better.
Water Breathing: Too obvious.
Water Walk: Yeah.

Level 4
Air Walk: Obvious. Notably, you still walk so stuff depending on jumping and such should work normally. Nice duration, though not 1h/level. Touch.
Imbue with Spell Ability: Divine Favor is a nice one, for example. Personal spells in general.
Greater Magic Weapon: Like Magic Vestment, except for weapons. The nice part is that Clerics can buff their CL like crazy so you'll have +5s in the mid-teens. Close range.
Spell Immunity: Stuff such as Enervation and such is very solid to protect people from. Touch.

Level 5
Disrupting Weapon: Kills undead. Handy in Undead-heavy scenarios. With iteratives, it amounts to a whole ton of SoDs vs. Undead. Touch-range.
Spell Resistance: 12+CL is a nice amount, without cap, especially for a Cleric. It's Touch so it can be used to ward the entire party and it's nice 10 min/level (if it only were 1 hour/level...).
True Seeing: Too obvious.

Level 6
Mass Bull's Strength & al.: When you have hordes of servants/underlings/whatever, these can be worthwhile. Party will just buy gear.
Heroes' Feast: Extend it for 24-hour Fear-immunity and Morale-bonus to Hit and Will-saves. One is enough to feed the entire party and then some. Should be staple once you get it given the DCs of the fear auras some creatures have.
Wind Walk: Kinda like your version of Teleport. Nice travel-spell if actual Teleportation is not available.
Word of Recall: Solid replication of one function of Teleportation. Nice overall.

Level 7
Ethereal Jaunt: Decent escape spell tho only 1 round/level and Personal.
Refuge: Nice "Oh ****"-Contingency to give to e.g. party Rogue or someone else bound to get into trouble alone.

Level 8
Cloak of Chaos/Holy Aura/Shield of Law/Unholy Aura: Decent defensive alignment-buffs, though they unfortunately don't stack with common protective items. There's still the "successful attack requires will-save vs. Confusion" and multi-targeting going on for it tho. Again, very solid if you have unequipped underlings.
Greater Spell Immunity: Good for the same reason Spell Immunity is good.

Level 9
Astral Projection: You pay some for effective immortality, especially combined with Plane Shift. Basically, you create a clone of yourself, for which dying doesn't make any difference. It's great how Plane Shift is a level 5 spell for Clerics. Multitarget.
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Etherealness: Handy for bypassing places and spying on things and killing ethereal issues and so on. And for staying out. I don't like spending level 9 slots on this tho.
Of course, that's only the Core, and some stuff changed from 3.5 to PF. There's more, and of course, I'm not going in great depth here (due to the number of things to assess). Wand of Cure X Wounds should cover most of your healing, honestly. You can focus on BFC. Also, note that Summon Monster-line (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-monster#4th-level) is quite efficient at healing in PF, though only SMV+; SMIV- only really has Silvanshee Agathion that only has 1d6 once per day. SMV already has Bralani Azata with CSW 2/day, and Vulpinal Agathion with 3d6 6/day Lay on Hands.

Either way, Summons are always useful. Aid Another, spell-likes, you'll certainly come up with a way to use them vs. a Dragon as well. Aside from this, haven't gone through PF supplemental Cleric-spells but honestly, Silence, Shatter & Dispel Magic are among your better options on this level. Aside from that, Summons & Buffs (I guess mostly Air Walk & Magic Circle in this case); if you were level 9, Wall of Stone could be fairly useful here but up until then you're left with vision control effects like Darkness (can be efficient if readied but eh). You could try Terrible Remorse; if you get past the SR (it's usually not very high) it's guaranteed Stagger and if it fails the save, it's pretty much ****ed. Not the worst trade-off.


Nope. Didn't go that way because we had already a Summoner and a Druid. I thought we had enough Summons on that side.

I'm quite happy with my Cleric, problem is I don't deal damage. I don't care about that either, but sometimes perception at party is that I do "nothing", because I'm not dealing damage.

Maybe it's how I behave in team fights. Sometimes I recognize that the enemy is not that dangerous so I don't burn my high level spells and hold them. Usually I also delay action until I have more information on hidden enemies and how the fight could evolve.

That sounds familiar. But, eventually they'll come to realize damage is the least of contributions. Unless it's broken to them tho this process might take a couple of years. Might be worth just bringing it up and keeping a tally of all the damage your buffs provide for a few encounters, and all the damage your debuffs prevent and compare it to what the others are doing.

[Vortenger]

Ok.

I'm not really that familiar with Bestiary but this Dragon was using his Flame Breath every single round.



How in the Nine Hells? Just looked at PFSRD. Dragons have unlimited breath now? I didn't notice any 'cooldown' in any entry. That seems kinda weird. My summoned hell hound sure has to wait a few rounds between breaths.

[holywhippet]

How in the Nine Hells? Just looked at PFSRD. Dragons have unlimited breath now? I didn't notice any 'cooldown' in any entry. That seems kinda weird. My summoned hell hound sure has to wait a few rounds between breaths.

Look closer:


A dragon can use its breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds, even if it possesses more than one breath weapon.

So depending on how well the DM rolls they might be able to use their breath weapon every round or only once every 4 rounds.

[aeauseth]

First I suggest reading The 3.5 Cleric Handbook (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=420.0).

With regards to your upcoming dragon fight + spell prep:

I think a series of buffs would be a good start. Such as Divine Power, Recitation, Mass Conviction, Bull Strength, Cat's grace, etc.

If your dragon has buffs (shield, mage armor), then a Dispel Magic or two will be helpful.

It wasn't clear who your primary damage dealer was, but if you plan to take a back seat to the fight then Shield Other on your front line person. Amulet of retributive healing becomes important when using Shield Other.

Spell damage is going to be rough. A dragon typically has a great saves. Straight forward spells like Flame Strike will likely do half damage. Spiritual Weapon is a good staple.

[Alefiend]

The problem doesn't seem to be with your build, but with your teamwork. You don't have any. This needs to change if you want to avoid becoming Jack Links DragonSnax.

I assume that you share a common language with your party members, both in game and in real life. How about, oh I don't know, talking together and coming up with a plan? You are all going to get roasted if you continue to try and guess what the other people are going to do. Having a plan also shows the rest of the party just how much you're contributing.

Also, once the buffs are all cast, grab a long spear or some other weapon (preferably with reach or range) and go help kill the dragon. If you're intent on providing in-combat healing, that will let you be close enough to help but still far enough to possibly avoid AoO from the dragon.

[ericgrau]

You can air walk your allies, level 4 spell. There is damage too like flame strike. True in that case it was a red dragon but half the damage still hits and there are other spells too. Searing light and many others. They aren't as good as the arcane versions but clerics get plenty even in core. For something lower level you use spiritual weapon.

[Letric]

nice spells, most of them I use.

Level 1 offensive no more, I have lots of buffs and Sanctuary.

Im actually trying to find a way to use it at high level with Heighten spell but im not sure if its worth

[ericgrau]

If you're going to metamagic sanctuary at high level I'd rather quicken it. Each round immediately after dealing damage even :smallbiggrin:. Heighten isn't that great on prepared casters because you can usually find a more versatile spell on the same level and with the same save DC. It's good on spontaneous casters because your 6 low level save or X spells put together might have the versatility of 3 of your high level spells. Other metamagic is still better for them, but I mean even heighten is viable... on spontaneous casters. On prepared ya it's hard to see much point to it. And in Pathfinder at least get persistent spell instead of heighten.

So what's your highest spell level? It will help us suggest good damage or other offensive spells on that level. Or heck I'll just leave this here and you can browse yourself: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/spell-lists---cleric#p4 . Maybe spiritual ally. It seems to be a super spiritual weapon assuming you have 6 or more BAB. Plus he's an invincible flanker for your rogue.

[Letric]

I'm level 7 Priest, it's a Cloistered Cleric version of PF, with light armor and 6 skills per level. I also have Knowledge Lore which allows me to add half my Priest level to Knowledge check and make untrained checks.

STR 7
DEX 10 +2 Item
CON 16 + 2 Item
INT 10 + 2 Item
WIS 18 +2 Bonus + 1 Leveling + 2 Item
CHA 10

I was thinking about talking to my DM and switching WIS base to 14 or 16

If WIS 16

STR 7
DEX 12 +2 Item
CON 16 + 2 Item
INT 12 + 2 Item
WIS 16 +2 Bonus + 1 Leveling + 2 Item = 21
CHA 14

If WIS 14

STR 8
DEX 12 +2 Item
CON 16 + 2 Item
INT 14 + 2 Item
WIS 14 +2 Bonus + 1 Leveling + 2 Item
CHA 14


I've noticed that I'm not using many spells with SoS, but sometimes those are required. On the other hand, considering I'm sort of skill monkey, having more skill points and CHA never hurts, and I like the idea as well.

My prepared spells so far are these:

1: Obscuring Mist - Sanctuaryx2 - Shield of Faithx2 - Liberating Command
2: Protection from Evil, Communal* - Grace - Hold Person - Instrument of Agony - Resist Energy
3: Dispel Magic - Resist Energy, Communal - Bestow Curse
4: Blessing of Fervor - Death Ward

*This spell functions like protection from evil, except you divide the duration in 1-minute intervals among the creatures touched.