Anti-Caster Barbarian 3.5

[TripperdeCleric]

20 Level Builds Welcome!

I want a Barbarian build that would be a caster killer. I also want to be able to do some decent base output to others.

Please list book from which feat is from:

Try and limit it to:

Core
Monster Manuals
Completes
UA

[Rebel7284]

Does it have to have 20 levels of barbarian?

[TripperdeCleric]

Nope.

You can go any prestiges as long as you list the books.


Can be frenzied berserker.


Just want to crush casters..since melee isnt that big of a deal when im hitting huge chunks.

[Segev]

Using a ridiculous example to illustrate and hopefully find the actual desired limits:

How much barbarian must be in the build? I mean, I'm pretty sure you don't want "Fighter 3, Wizard 3, Eldrich Knight 10, Druid 4" or something like that when you asked for "barbarian." But I don't know how much or little you want in it. What qualifications other than "mage killer" are you seeking?

[herrhauptmann]

Feats: Mageslayer, Blindfight, Pierce Magic Concealment.
Leap attack, imp bullrush, shocktrooper

Prestige:
Runescarred Berserker. So you'll need a Barbarian Lodge feat from Unapproachable East.

Template: Quorbred (secrets of sarlona). No psionics for you, but some nice abilities that help. I'd recommend Karsite race too, but that would probably make it impossible to be a runescar.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Feats: Mageslayer, Blindfight, Pierce Magic Concealment.
Leap attack, imp bullrush, shocktrooper

Prestige:
Runescarred Berserker. So you'll need a Barbarian Lodge feat from Unapproachable East.

Template: Quorbred (secrets of sarlona). No psionics for you, but some nice abilities that help. I'd recommend Karsite race too, but that would probably make it impossible to be a runescar.

Well... yes and no. On the one hand, it states that Karsites can be found wherever there are humans, so you could technically get in.

On the other, it's technically impossible to enter Runescarred Berserker.

[Story]

You are aware that anti-caster mundane fighter is not an archetype that 3.5 really supports, right?

At best you can try to beat up unoptimized NPC casters, but you're unlikely to ever beat a high level caster played intelligently.

[Rebel7284]

I hear intimidating rage + instantaneous rage can be good in such builds. Of course, the further up in levels you go, the more difficult it is to find a wizard with his pants down.

Also, you need Vecna Blooded template.

[TripperdeCleric]

Using a ridiculous example to illustrate and hopefully find the actual desired limits:

How much barbarian must be in the build? I mean, I'm pretty sure you don't want "Fighter 3, Wizard 3, Eldrich Knight 10, Druid 4" or something like that when you asked for "barbarian." But I don't know how much or little you want in it. What qualifications other than "mage killer" are you seeking?


I want the ability to rage.



You are aware that anti-caster mundane fighter is not an archetype that 3.5 really supports, right?

At best you can try to beat up unoptimized NPC casters, but you're unlikely to ever beat a high level caster played intelligently.


I need to be able to hit them (possible), I need to be able to hurt them (possible). I see no issue here. If intelligently played boss Casters...I might have issues. But I can still put out some Raw Damage. Even if it is dr 10/everything, invisible..and such.


Any items to overcome this are also welcome.

Maybe a rod of AMF

[Shining Wrath]

Are you part of a team that can handle some of the other capabilities of the mage? You need someone who can keep him from teleporting away, going ethereal, and so on. Without that, you=loser.

Once the mage has to stay in the same room as you are in you need to raise all your saves as high as possible to avoid the assorted save-or-die effects mages dish out. As a barbarian you'll get good Fort saves and rage will help.

Try to get the DM to allow the Whirling Frenzy variant on rage. More attacks is better than more Constitution when fighting a mage, and the Reflex save is a nice bonus.

A complementary class worth a dip might be Swordsage. It gives you the other two saves (R,W) plus some maneuvers might help you overcome a mage - Shadow Jaunts to let you teleport out of Black Tentacles, Emerald Razor to allow you to ignore Bracers of Defense and load up on Power Attack, etc.

[Eldariel]

Feats: Mageslayer, Blindfight, Pierce Magic Concealment.
Leap attack, imp bullrush, shocktrooper

Prestige:
Runescarred Berserker. So you'll need a Barbarian Lodge feat from Unapproachable East.

Template: Quorbred (secrets of sarlona). No psionics for you, but some nice abilities that help. I'd recommend Karsite race too, but that would probably make it impossible to be a runescar.

This, pretty much. A solid, basic shell. Though I'd add some Warblade; opens up any race and you can use Feathered Wings for non-magical flight (key with Runescarred Berserker enabling you to cast Anti-Magic Field). Ranger 2 -> Barbarian 2 -> Warblade 3 -> Runescarred Berserker 10.

Ranger's kind of a filler but it gets you Rapid Shot (makes your ranged combat reasonable assuming good Dexterity and perhaps a +1 Splitting Bow down the line; goes great with Whirling Frenzy too) and gets you some skills. It's all good, in all honesty. Favored Enemy: Arcanist kinda fits tho.

[eggynack]

This, pretty much. A solid, basic shell. Though I'd add some Warblade; opens up any race and you can use Feathered Wings for non-magical flight (key with Runescarred Berserker enabling you to cast Anti-Magic Field). Ranger 2 -> Barbarian 2 -> Warblade 3 -> Runescarred Berserker 10.

Ranger's kind of a filler but it gets you Rapid Shot (makes your ranged combat reasonable assuming good Dexterity and perhaps a +1 Splitting Bow down the line; goes great with Whirling Frenzy too) and gets you some skills. It's all good, in all honesty. Favored Enemy: Arcanist kinda fits tho.
Yeah, that's about as good as it gets. I'd personally swap out the ranger levels for fighter levels, Because it generally supports the melee plan better, but the whole barbarian into runescarred berserker thing is one of the best anti-magic fighting guys you can get. The build still isn't that great at fighting casters, because nearly nothing in the game is particularly great at fighting casters (you pretty much have to be a full caster, and that obviously just gets you parity) but it might be good enough.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, that's about as good as it gets. I'd personally swap out the ranger levels for fighter levels, Because it generally supports the melee plan better, but the whole barbarian into runescarred berserker thing is one of the best anti-magic fighting guys you can get. The build still isn't that great at fighting casters, because nearly nothing in the game is particularly great at fighting casters (you pretty much have to be a full caster, and that obviously just gets you parity) but it might be good enough.

Well, you can occasionally catch a caster off-guard with a bow. Windwall is immobile and takes a standard action to cast and Protection from Arrows doesn't actually do anything so I usually find it worthwhile to be able to nuke casters with a bow given the chance. Whirling Frenzying Barbarian with Boots of Speed is already looking at pretty impressive base damage modifiers and Rapid Shot + Whirling Frenzy makes for pretty solid base attack sequence (level 11 you'd have 7/7/7/7/2/-3 as the BABs accounting for the penalties).

You can just nuke down casters who don't bother with AC/immunities/whatever (Strength can be 18+2 levels+4 item+4 Frenzy = 28 without racials), and it's always useful to have a ranged attack sequence; can't use Splitting Bow actually 'cause no Precise Shot but a simple +1 Bow (or Force) will do and be negligibly cheap. Of course, much depends on the base Dex (and thus the point buy) here, but still, full BAB type with 2 bonus attacks isn't the worst archer on the planet and the investment is fairly minor. Of course, Ranger can also be used for Strongarm Style to get Power Attack. Either way, I'd probably prefer Ranger simply 'cause skills are actually kinda useful vs. casters (Spot/Listen/Hide/Move Silently mostly, since they're hard to completely negate with a spell), and you get a ton of minor handy stuff.

[holywhippet]

You are aware that anti-caster mundane fighter is not an archetype that 3.5 really supports, right?

At best you can try to beat up unoptimized NPC casters, but you're unlikely to ever beat a high level caster played intelligently.

True, one of the best classes for dealing with caster is the PrC Church Inquisitor which gains immunities and countermeasures to a number of mind effecting spells and can force shape shifted enemies into their normal form. Problem is, you need to be able to a divine caster to qualify.

On the other hand, if you were a paladin you could get hold of a holy avenger which will let you throw greater dispel magic against your enemies. Of course there is the alignment clash between a paladin and a barbarian unless you become a paladin of freedom or the like.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Your problem is that a caster is going to have access to ways and means of negating you as a threat. Unfortunately, some of them are not going to be able to be overcome.

First off... transportation mode. If you are on the ground, and your opponent is flying, it is going to be difficult to attack him. For this reason, you're going to need to go into ToB and pick up Bloodstorm Blade. It's not perfect, range is only around 50' or so and a caster can still easily stay out of that range, but it is a start.

Second off, your opponent will teleport away the moment you try to close with him. There are several ways of doing so that completely obviate you as a challenge. Most obvious is Contingency Dimension Door, but there's also Celerity + DimDoor/Teleport or even Abrupt Jaunt class ability. And he will do so before you get within 10' of him, for fear of you carrying around an AMF.

Third off, spell defenses. Pierce Magical Protection and Pierce Magical Concealment are good starts. However you will also need a form of See Invisibility because you can't attack what you can't find.

Also, at high levels, you're going to need to go plane-hopping to find him, because he'll be using Astral Projection to pretty much be immune to you and nothing you can do to stop him.

[Phaederkiel]

Because this is quite true,



Once the mage has to stay in the same room as you are in you need to raise all your saves as high as possible to avoid the assorted save-or-die effects mages dish out. As a barbarian you'll get good Fort saves and rage will help.


this is quite untrue.



Try to get the DM to allow the Whirling Frenzy variant on rage. More attacks is better than more Constitution when fighting a mage, and the Reflex save is a nice bonus.


Reflex does not negate many of the Save or something a normal mage will throw. Fort does. Take the feat Steadfast determination to get your sky-high constitution to will saves. Unfortunately, this needs endurance.


I think the real big question is: what kind of caster-competence do you expect to crush beneath your sandaled feet? What a dm throws at you, or what a player who knows all the tricks and has optimized to the max throws at you?

Since the former is easier, let us aim for the latter.



Before we come to anything else, let us first talk initiative. It is obviously of supreme importance. Barring the oponent beeing a turtle all day (or having a similar ability) you can (and should) try to catch him flatfooted.
Two of his best defenses (Abrupt jaunt and celerity) come only online after he has stopped being surprised. Contingency is still a problem, though.
But contingency costs Exp and needs to keep Evocation around, etc. Perhaps the opponent thought it was clever to skip it...(one can still hope).


The feat chains shown here are already quite good:


Feats: Mageslayer, Blindfight, Pierce Magic Concealment.

to eat through a lot of his ablative defenses. Perhaps even Pierce Magical Protection, even if it is by far not as important.


intimidating rage + instantaneous rage

use this + Imperious Command (now here is a question: does this work without imp Command?) to block an enemy from casting. You charge him, he tries to celerity, you rage and shout at him instantaneously, he cowers and stays where you can slay him.
Notice that intanteneous rage is written in a way that makes it possible to stop the enemy even whle you are surprised. It is much better than abrupt jaunt in this respect.

Another way would be to get Ferocity instead of rage. This saves you a feat (instanteneous rage) and is usable before you do initiative. Why this is good is explained above :smallamused: The downside is less constitution, and no + 2 to will. The ACF is found here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a

take also a look at the Barbarian ACF street fighter listed here.



I would take 11 levels of Barbarian (where you get +6 to your rage stats, and the first two abilities from the streetfighter ACF);
4 Lvl Fighter (drow fighter to get +2 to ini and your dex to dmg in surprise rounds), 3 feats, and skillfocus intimidate since you went zhentarim, obviously;
And 1 level each of the maneuver granting classes. The most Important Maneuver is obviously Iron heart surge (which for a drow can stop the sun from shining...). Perhaps swordsage warrants a second level, take late enough to get a highlvl stance out of it.
Tactical shortrange teleportation (mundane, still probably caught by dimensional anchor) and some charge maneuvers are only gravy.

that is 18 lvls so far.

Runescarred berserker has an amazing antisynergie with the mageslayer line of feats, I would avoid it.

the last two slots should probably be filled with 1 crusader, 1 swordsage to get as many stances as possible and the crusaders charisma to will.
Are you sure that you cannot bring ToB on the table? It would add so much versatility and durability to your mage slayer.

Bloodstorm Blade would be another great alternative.


Tl;dr:

What to do against contingency?

Is imperious command needed? Does the trick also work with ferocity?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Shadow Evocation can grant access to Contingency if they've banned Evocation, so that's still a problem.

Pierce Magical Protection can go through Polymorph, IIRC, so if you have a feat lying around free, it's not a total waste (at lower levels).

[Eldariel]

Before we come to anything else, let us first talk initiative. It is obviously of supreme importance. Barring the oponent beeing a turtle all day (or having a similar ability) you can (and should) try to catch him flatfooted.
Two of his best defenses (Abrupt jaunt and celerity) come only online after he has stopped being surprised. Contingency is still a problem, though.
But contingency costs Exp and needs to keep Evocation around, etc. Perhaps the opponent thought it was clever to skip it...(one can still hope).

Wizard has things to the tune of Nerveskitter and Moment of Prescience helping with Initiative though. Also, Contingency costs gold, not XP (you need the one-time Focus investment). Crafted Contingencies not withstanding, at any rate. Also, Greater Shadow Evocation might or might not work just fine.


to eat through a lot of his ablative defenses. Perhaps even Pierce Magical Protection, even if it is by far not as important.

Requires a standard action that you don't have. If you get next to the Wizard you need to hit him to kill him. That requires a Charge or a full-round attack, not a standard action attack.


Runescarred berserker has an amazing antisynergie with the mageslayer line of feats, I would avoid it.

Runescarred Berserker doesn't have a caster level. The runescars do but they're like crafted items and the maximum caster level is explicitly Runescarred Berserker level so it does not interact at all with Mage Slayer.

Of course, it's not in the allowed sources so lol.


Tl;dr:

What to do against contingency?

Is imperious command needed? Does the trick also work with ferocity?


Vs. Contingency, you need to get to attack again; either by having him somehow not finish you off on his turn or getting to act again. Winning Initiative and using e.g. Belt of Battle works here. Free Action Raging to Intimidate to stop him from taking a turn could work. Weapons of Legacy give you some semblance of access to caster-like initiative skewing so that might help. Mind Blank is available too, for what it's worth.

Imperious Command is needed. Ferocity does work, but giving up Whirling Frenzy gives up a lot of offensive potential. You aren't gonna be able to stop a mage's entire arsenal anyways so defense focus is a losing proposition; as such, I suggest a varied offense instead and hoping you can hit a mage somewhere he hasn't happened to defend against (generally a melee AMF attack is one reasonable way, PMC might catch some by surprise, a ranged lethal volley might work in some cases, Imperious Command could just work, etc.).

[Otep]

Complete Arcana pg 63-65 Suel Arcanamach may be up your alley.... it shouldn't be too hard to get a barb into it.... 7th level should do it

[Phaederkiel]

Wizard has things to the tune of Nerveskitter and Moment of Prescience helping with Initiative though. Also, Contingency costs gold, not XP (you need the one-time Focus investment). Crafted Contingencies not withstanding, at any rate. Also, Greater Shadow Evocation might or might not work just fine.



Well if it might or might not work, there is a good chance it doesn't.
Ok, then he has one of three possibilities:

a) keeping evocation (which is difficult while keeping abrupt jaunt)
b) Risking shadow evocation
c) taking the feat.

at least the wizard has to put significant resources in. There is no way to stop the contigency, is there?

Initiative is easily modified by some frightening amounts for both parties, but most tricks the wizard can pull, the barbarian can pull, too.
UMD as a cross-classed skill might not exactly be our notion of a good time, but our barb needs charisma anyway.





Requires a standard action that you don't have. If you get next to the Wizard you need to hit him to kill him. That requires a Charge or a full-round attack, not a standard action attack.


brrr. you are right, I missread. That makes the feat even worse than it was before. It still dispels a good deal of powerful tricks, but is probably not worth getting. Imp Ini seems better.




Vs. Contingency, you need to get to attack again; either by having him somehow not finish you off on his turn or getting to act again. Winning Initiative and using e.g. Belt of Battle works here. Free Action Raging to Intimidate to stop him from taking a turn could work. Weapons of Legacy give you some semblance of access to caster-like initiative skewing so that might help. Mind Blank is available too, for what it's worth.

Imperious Command is needed. Ferocity does work, but giving up Whirling Frenzy gives up a lot of offensive potential. You aren't gonna be able to stop a mage's entire arsenal anyways so defense focus is a losing proposition; as such, I suggest a varied offense instead and hoping you can hit a mage somewhere he hasn't happened to defend against (generally a melee AMF attack is one reasonable way, PMC might catch some by surprise, a ranged lethal volley might work in some cases, Imperious Command could just work, etc.).


I think that a pouncing barbarian does not need that many attacks to take out mr. wizard. And +3 to ini and not needing to take instantaneous rage will help a lot with our offense.
I'd think the wizard will have a hard time killing the barbarian right next to him if the barbarian has good enough saves and some rerolls and perhaps an antimagic field. I think the problem is that the wizard will flee, set himself up to win and come back. Thus I think the most important for our offense is stopping the wizard from porting out in contingency to our charge.

but pray tell me what a belt of battle can do if the opponent stops your turn and flees?

and what is a pmc?

[herrhauptmann]

PMC is usually pierce magic concealment. The best of the mageslayer feats, since it lets you do so much more.

You ignore the miss chances resulting from any spell.
Invisibility.
Blink.
Blur.
Major Image.
Stinking Cloud.
With something like Invisibility, you still have to select the right square. But that's easy to cover if you use something like Favored Enemy Arcanists and the feat Nemesis.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

PMC is really good, but it still requires your opponent stand in one place long enough to get hit. Contingency and Celerity are still two insurmountable problems, and Astral Projection also becomes an insurmountable problem.

No melee build I've ever heard of can deal with these problems. If you can solve this, I'd be ever so grateful if you could share with the class.

[herrhauptmann]

PMC is really good, but it still requires your opponent stand in one place long enough to get hit. Contingency and Celerity are still two insurmountable problems, and Astral Projection also becomes an insurmountable problem.

No melee build I've ever heard of can deal with these problems. If you can solve this, I'd be ever so grateful if you could share with the class.


Ask the party for help.
Hope the caster you're fighting isn't too optimized.
Be the DM, making an anticaster warrior for the party to fight.

[Eldariel]

I think that a pouncing barbarian does not need that many attacks to take out mr. wizard. And +3 to ini and not needing to take instantaneous rage will help a lot with our offense.
I'd think the wizard will have a hard time killing the barbarian right next to him if the barbarian has good enough saves and some rerolls and perhaps an antimagic field. I think the problem is that the wizard will flee, set himself up to win and come back. Thus I think the most important for our offense is stopping the wizard from porting out in contingency to our charge.

All this depends on the Contingency. If Wizard uses it to escape, there's precious little to do about it other than circumventing the trigger, which is of course 100% situational.

As for the extra attack, I was more referring to also having the ability to kill with a ranged full attack, which can be very valuable if the enemy e.g. uses Contingency to TP 400' back or whatever. At that point a ranged full attack can be a kill where melee is not viable.


but pray tell me what a belt of battle can do if the opponent stops your turn and flees?

Depends on the Contingency. If enemy doesn't go that far, you can use your remaining Swift Action after forcing it to take another full-round action and go for the kill with another charge and ranged full attack.

Note that this does not mess with Imperious Command since Raging normally is a free action, or an Immediate Action which you can take off your next turn's Swift Action if you're using Immediate Rage/Ferocity.


and what is a pmc?

Pierce Magical Concealment, as stated previously.



PMC is really good, but it still requires your opponent stand in one place long enough to get hit. Contingency and Celerity are still two insurmountable problems, and Astral Projection also becomes an insurmountable problem.

No melee build I've ever heard of can deal with these problems. If you can solve this, I'd be ever so grateful if you could share with the class.

Eternal Blade 10 has Island in Time which is a pretty strong counter to Celerity. Astral Projection; you gotta get the Silver Sword or just find his body (which'll probably involve that Breach-thingy from Planar Handbook (?) and some other nonsense). Contingency, yeah, you just have to have one of your own or chase after it or outplay it. Much depends on what the Contingency actually is.

[Waker]

Since no one else has mentioned it, Spell Sense from Complete Mage is handy. Trading out your nigh worthless bonus against traps for bonus AC against spells, giving you some measure of defense against touch and ray spells.

[Azoth]

I think a fine weapon for this guy is a +1 (insert weapon of choice, preferably a 2 hander) mage bane(+1), banishing(+2), binding(+1), greater dispelling(+2), and either Ethereal Reaver (+3) or Illusion bane (+1) + Illusion Theft (+1 synergy) + whatever other +1 you like.

This combinaton of abilities, while limited in uses per day for most, gives you the ability to remove some defenses of enemy casters that the mage slayer line doesn't cover. All of these abilities are in the magic item compendium. Again, not an optimized weapon against most foes...or even necessarily against casters, but it will serve well with the flavor.

Mage bane gives a bonus to hit +damage against casters.

Banishing is 3/day on strike goodbye called/summoned creature.

Binding is 2/day dimension anchor on strike.

Greater dispelling gives you 3/day GDM.

Etheral Reaver is ghost touch + constant see invis.

Illusion Theft can steal any illusion spell it dispels and store it for you to use to boost yourself.

All fun ways to take away a caster's toys and help with your face pummeling needs.


Also, the build using Ranger can take the Arcane Hunter ACF for FE (arcanist), and if he has a free feat he can take Nemesis BOED (IIRC) to automatically know if there are any casters or creatures with SLAs within 60ft of him. He can't pinpoint them, but they can't close past that point without him knowing they are there and their direction regardless of any barriers between them.

We have the antimagic Torc in DOTU for 25k that gives 1/day AMF.

Also, look in Bunko's Bargain Basement and Shax's Indispensable Havversack for mundane/magical problem solvers. The Wizard has magic to do everything for him, and has it constantly at his call. You my friend need to be Batman, and carry tools to handle any and everything that can happen.

Wall of stone meet my stone breaker acid. Entangle meet my defoliator. Bands of steel meet my rust monster wand. Evard's hentai fantasy meet my anklets of translocation.

[Segev]

A Robe of Eyes, while a disadvantage against things with gaze attacks, is probably going to be indispensible for you. You want to know when what you're looking at is an illusion, a projected image, an astral projection, or a polymorphed platinum dragon pretending to be a senile wizard.

Acquire as a backup weapon, or even use as the basis for your enchantments, a Githyanki Silver Sword. I forget if its silver cord-severing property triggers on a crit or on specifically a nat 20; if the former, look into getting it keen and finding abilities that auto-confirm. If the latter...you'll need ways to maximize the number of attacks you can get off, so you can trigger that nat 20 ASAP.

You're not a magic-fearing barbarian; you're a mage-slayer. This means you need to know your prey and his tools. Get Spellcraft. There's an Abyssal Heritor feat (which you can take as many as you want of, because as a Barbarian you're already Chaotic) called Keeper of Forbidden Knowledge which gives you Spellcraft and K:Planes as class skills, and a +2 to each. There are likely others.

You probably would benefit, as well, from UMD. That would let you get staves to work so you can buff yourself with all those frustratingly "Personal"-only range spells that casters like to keep to themselves.

Armed with these skills, you should be able to make use of a Crystal Ball or other, similar scrying device. The "Scry-and-die" tactics for which casters are infamous are not quite as easy to use as advertised, but they ARE potent and valid tactics. When you find yourself examining an Astral Projection and you are not certain you can hold it there until your Silver Sword does its thing, slip away and scry out the caster's actual body.

Oh, he'll probably have it Sequestered or Veiled or other tricks to render it immune to scrying, but it's both worth the try. I don't have any clever suggestions for getting around this, but somebody else might. I'm thinking if you can even scry out the location based on properties it might have, even if you can't see the exact chamber, you might discover the city or some path to take to get there.

If you're really lucky or good and you manage to scry out his carcass directly, use your own teleportation magics to go THERE, pop your AMF/dim anchor of choice, and kill him before he even knows he's in danger. Then bamf back to join your party!

If you can get close enough without triggering defenses, grappling can do a lot to prevent a caster from casting.


Also, consider that, sometimes, making the caster leave is all you need to do. Triggering that retreat-defense or dispelling that Astral Projection might be all you need. I believe there are Dispelling properties, even, you can put on weapons.

Arguably, Dimension Lock - which specifically lists Astral Projection (amongst other effects) as something that is prevented from being used to travel into or out of the warded space - could lock an Astrally-Projecting mage not just out of the ability to vanish back to his body, but out of the ability to even physically leave the warded space.

Now, later in the spell, it says, "A dimensional lock does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast." This probably means that it does nothing at all to astrally-projected bodies. (And honestly makes the spell's effect on Astral Projection questionable at all. Why would you cast Astral Projection while physically within a Dimension Lock, anyway? Move 20 feet and cast it over there, if necessary. I suppose it's useful if you're trying to imprison a mage? Good luck with that...)

Dimension Lock has a radius of 20 ft. While it can only be cast on a point in space, a continuous magic item of it would only be 120,000 gp. Same as your Robe of Eyes, I believe. You charge in with that up, and the mage whose defenses trigger based on worry about AMFs will find they don't 'port him away after all. And then you can attack, or even put up an AMF of your own.


Now, all of this is fairly independent of being a barbarian. That's because all of your class features are going to help you far more directly: once you've got the mage unable to run and are certain you've targetted the real thing, the classic "ubercharger" and other melee beatstick builds will do what they do best to the physically unimpressive caster who is stripped of his preemptive win buttons.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A Gythyanki Silver Sword is an artifact. If you're going to assume that you own an artifact, just go with a Deck and let the guy draw one of the several negative cards that can deal with him.

[Segev]

A Gythyanki Silver Sword is an artifact. If you're going to assume that you own an artifact, just go with a Deck and let the guy draw one of the several negative cards that can deal with him.

Wait, it is? I thought they were just "you have to hunt down a githyanki, because they're not going to GIVE the things away for any price."

Where is it listed as an artifact?

[Eldariel]

People, when you build equipment, be efficient. Robe of Eyes, a +10-equivalent weapon, etc. are way too expensive to be efficient buys. There are cheaper ways to get the effect you want (e.g. Scout's Headband is a 3400gp item that gives you True Seeing for 1 minute on activation; far more efficient than Robe of Eyes as you shouldn't need True Sight that often between your Spot/Listen/Clarity of Vision Skill Trick that ought to be able to see through Invisibility & Pierce Magical Concealment to defeat most Illusions, alongside Nemesis).

You can't go investing 100k here and 200k there when even level 20 your composite wealth is 760k and you need to cover a lot of bases to have a chance. That's why I favor a Weapon of Legacy; it gets you Mind Blank, Moment of Prescience, Heal, Cunning (ability to never be flatfooted) & few other convenient effects for the price of one weapon. It saves a lot of money overall. The penalties and such are annoying but surmountable.


Take it from somebody who has built and equipped a level 20 Mage Slayer; even then your funds are vastly insufficient for anything but a rudimentary overall setup unless you forego stat buffs and fundamental numbers entirely (in which case you're toast if the enemy e.g. has a Gated servant). Under level 20 your WBL is diminished exponentially and thus you should be extremely sparing with your gold.


Wait, it is? I thought they were just "you have to hunt down a githyanki, because they're not going to GIVE the things away for any price."

Where is it listed as an artifact?

Not every Githyanki has one. The Silver Swords are only bestowed upon the greatest Gith (that haven't been consumed by the Queen at any rate). It's very, very hard to get one (and you'll have assassins after you every day for the rest of your life if you do manage to acquire one).

EDIT: Though 3.5 might have them as non-artifacts by default. Hm. That's peculiar. Page 167 in Expanded Psionics Handbook seems like the most recent entry on them.

[herrhauptmann]

I think a fine weapon for this guy is a +1 (insert weapon of choice, preferably a 2 hander) mage bane(+1), banishing(+2), binding(+1), greater dispelling(+2), and either Ethereal Reaver (+3) or Illusion bane (+1) + Illusion Theft (+1 synergy) + whatever other +1 you like.

How many of those require saves? Of those, how many of those are fort saves?
I personally don't like relying on abilities that require my enemy to fail a save. Especially if I'm going to need them against non-mooks. You'd be better off with sudden stunning, where at least the save scales in relation to your level.



Also, the build using Ranger can take the Arcane Hunter ACF for FE (arcanist), and if he has a free feat he can take Nemesis BOED (IIRC) to automatically know if there are any casters or creatures with SLAs within 60ft of him. He can't pinpoint them, but they can't close past that point without him knowing they are there and their direction regardless of any barriers between them.


You can pinpoint your nemesis. You get distance and direction. That's why I mentioned it in my post above about PMC.

[Story]

A Gythyanki Silver Sword is an artifact. If you're going to assume that you own an artifact, just go with a Deck and let the guy draw one of the several negative cards that can deal with him.

Plus at the level where Astral Projection is an issue, there's nothing you can reasonably do anyway. I'd recommend focusing on level 16 max, possibly even 14.

[Phaederkiel]

I think the weapon should probably be at least:

keen, eager, warning, slowburst, prismatic burst, magebane, valorous

and then either a falchion or a lance. The falchion would get its critrange to 13-20, which is quite impressive. To the lance we could add the impaling property, which would mean we hit touch.

and yes, slowburst has a ridiculously low dc, but hey. 5000 gp. Warning and eager are most important anyway. The weapon is quite cheap up to now, and there are probably some good ways to enhance it further before it gets too pricey.

I think the most important other Items would be a wand of improved dispel or even mages disjunction, and that funky amulet that lets you turn back time to the beginning of your turn. The next thing that is ever important is a magnificent belt of battle (+6 to all stats) and the usual initiative improvers.

[Azoth]

Banishing is the only one with a save. DC20 will to send their summoned pet back home if under 26HD. Not the greatest chance against some gated creatures, but it will give a decent chance against most.

Any that dispel go through the normal dispel check routine using the weapon's caster level, so between +5 or +15 to the check.

I may have given a 200k weapon listing, but I also listed the bonus per enhancement. This makes it easier for the OP to select some of the enhancements he likes and can build a weapon using them or not.

Also for the guy above me...you throw eager and keen on your guantlets not your main weapon. They are great boosters but not worth enough to pay more than 8k a piece for.

[herrhauptmann]

I think the weapon should probably be at least:

keen, eager, warning, slowburst, prismatic burst, magebane, valorous

and then either a falchion or a lance. The falchion would get its critrange to 13-20, which is quite impressive. To the lance we could add the impaling property, which would mean we hit touch.


Falchion is 18-20. That's 3 numbers.
Keen is 6 numbers, so 15-20.
Disciple of Dispater might help, might not. I don't remember if it was ever updated for 3.5.
And like Azoth said, put eager/warning on something else. Armor spikes and spiked gauntlet for instance. I'd also do Smoking. That miss chance isn't much, but it'll be enough to help you against rays.

[Psyren]

On the other, it's technically impossible to enter Runescarred Berserker.

Ok, I'll bite - why is that?



Also, you need Vecna Blooded template.

Now THAT one's impossible.


A Gythyanki Silver Sword is an artifact. If you're going to assume that you own an artifact, just go with a Deck and let the guy draw one of the several negative cards that can deal with him.



EDIT: Though 3.5 might have them as non-artifacts by default. Hm. That's peculiar. Page 167 in Expanded Psionics Handbook seems like the most recent entry on them.

That entry shows you how to make them, so they can't possibly be artifacts.

And in fact, that creation method is copied almost verbatim from 3.0 (MotP 175). The big difference is they've been downgraded from +3 to +1.

[Karnith]

Ok, I'll bite - why is that?It requires a regional feat not available to characters from Rashemen, and requires that the character be able to select regional feats from Rashemen. Per the 3.5 update to regional feats, this is no longer possible.

In 3.0, Survivor (a pre-req for Runescarred Berserker) was a regional feat for Rashemen, which is why it worked then for characters from Rashemen. Alternately, also using 3.0 rules for regional feats, any character could have put 2 ranks in the appropriate Knowledge (Local) skill to be able to select feats from a given region, and hence qualified for that part of Runescarred Berserker. But the 3.5 update made rules regarding regional feats go from silly to sillier, so neither of those work anymore, and you can't get into the class now as-written.

[Phaederkiel]

Falchion is 18-20. That's 3 numbers.
Keen is 6 numbers, so 15-20.

yes, execpt that the streetfighter acf enhances your crit range by 1, which stacks with keen.