What will Sabine do next? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

halfeye

2013-09-09, 05:10 PM

I don't know. It will be very interesting to find out.

There are so many things she could do:

Become good and join the order.

Become good and kill Tarquin.

Stay evil, join Tarquin for a celebration shag, then kill him.

Join Tarquin's team for real.

Join Nale in whatever hell he's in, and stay there with him shagging non-stop for eternity.

Become good and enter a nunnery.

Those are just some of the more obvious ones, there must be billions more including permutations on permutations.

Greatmoustache

2013-09-09, 05:12 PM

sabine will attack tarquin first chance she gets. tarquin will defeat her badly, kicking her back into hell. there she'll contact nale, who will help her plan assassinating tarquin. the said plan will include oots. and nale in some sort of ghost form. (ifcc will have a hand in this ghost form thingy)

but this whole plan-including-oots thing won't be revealed until the last moment. right when tarquin is about to kill elan, the evil lovers will come to elan's rescue. the person who strikes the final blow to tarquin will be nale.

belkar will disobey the orders/battle plan, in order to save elan, and die heroicly in this boss fight. (i'm not sure if this will fit in belkar-dying-calendar in oracle's prophecy. so maybe belkar will die sooner. possibly at kraagor's gate against xykon. but heroicly nonetheless!)

rate this on a scale 1 to 10; 10 being awesome, and 1 being oh-my-god-that-makes-me-wanna-puke.

Matt620

2013-09-09, 05:19 PM

I'm hoping, but I doubt I'd actually get it, that Sabine offers the OOtS information regarding the rifts (either something she has, or spying on the IFCC) in exchange for a True Resurrection for Nale and a Resurrection for Zz'dtri (TR does exist, Haley mentioned it when they caught Nale in Azure City)

Forikroder

2013-09-09, 05:49 PM

Become good and kill Tarquin.

"good"

Sabines a succubus its literally impossible for her to become good

I'm hoping, but I doubt I'd actually get it, that Sabine offers the OOtS information regarding the rifts (either something she has, or spying on the IFCC) in exchange for a True Resurrection for Nale and a Resurrection for Zz'dtri (TR does exist, Haley mentioned it when they caught Nale in Azure City)

if TR exists then why does Laurin say Nales not coming back?

Ramien

2013-09-09, 06:07 PM

"good"

Sabines a succubus its literally impossible for her to become good

if TR exists then why does Laurin say Nales not coming back?

There have been a few good-aligned, or at least neutral, succubi in canon D&D, particularly in Planescape. Sabine turning good is not very likely, though, especially with revenge as a motiviation. About the only motivation she'd have is seeing Elan as the only other person who cared about Nale.

halfeye

2013-09-09, 06:40 PM

"good"

Sabines a succubus its literally impossible for her to become good
You mean, it's not a million to one (and thus certain to happen (copyright T Pratchett??)), but actually 100 % (and by no means 99.9999999 %) impossible?

angry_bear

2013-09-09, 06:46 PM

Honestly I don't think Sabine deserves to avenge Nale in a direct confrontation with Tarquin. She's evil, and all the crap that Nale has done, she's been involved in. Tarquin might be the second baddest villain around, and has done some irredeemable things; but that doesn't mean he dies against a third rate temptress out to avenge her boyfriend.

I can see her double crossing the Fiends though. Maybe they won't bring Nale back or something, and she gives the order some information out of spite. Aside from that, I don't see her doing anything major like taking out Tarquin.

halfeye

2013-09-09, 06:55 PM

Honestly I don't think Sabine deserves to avenge Nale in a direct confrontation with Tarquin.
Karma? that doesn't work in this world, word of Roy. Who may have been talking ruggish, but he definitely said that.

Newwby

2013-09-09, 07:00 PM

"good"

Sabines a succubus its literally impossible for her to become good

Boom. (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a)

Matt620

2013-09-09, 07:43 PM

"good"

Sabines a succubus its literally impossible for her to become good

if TR exists then why does Laurin say Nales not coming back?

There's actually another strip that proves TR does exist (It's the one where Haley, Belkar, and Celia escape from Grubwiggler's). It's stated as notoriously hard to pull off though, since they need a "cartload of diamonds" and a 17th level cleric (and the only one around might be Redcloak)

Obscure Blade

2013-09-09, 07:45 PM

Tarquin might be the second baddest villain around, and has done some irredeemable things; but that doesn't mean he dies against a third rate temptress out to avenge her boyfriend. On the other hand, that could be a good way to rub it in that he's not the central villain of the story the way he thinks he is. And it's certainly not the "dramatically killed by a hero" scenario he's been planning for.

Forikroder

2013-09-09, 07:58 PM

There have been a few good-aligned, or at least neutral, succubi in canon D&D, particularly in Planescape. Sabine turning good is not very likely, though, especially with revenge as a motiviation. About the only motivation she'd have is seeing Elan as the only other person who cared about Nale.

there may be a 0.01% chance of her turning good, but considering she has no motivation or reason to turn good puts the kibosh on that plan

angry_bear

2013-09-09, 08:36 PM

Karma? that doesn't work in this world, word of Roy. Who may have been talking ruggish, but he definitely said that.

It's more from a meta perspective than a karmic one. She's a third string thug for the B-plot bad guy who's entertaining, but less of a threat than her dead boyfriend was. Just because she has a reason to kill Tarquin doesn't mean she gets to kill him, or is even able to do so. Best she can realistically hope for is to have a hand in his death, rather than be the main cause of it.

Ramien

2013-09-09, 09:10 PM

there may be a 0.01% chance of her turning good, but considering she has no motivation or reason to turn good puts the kibosh on that plan

Yes, that's what I was saying - it's technically possible, but not terribly within the realm of possibility for the character barring some very interesting developments - A possible chain of events that could look something like this:

Sabine asks for help from the IFCC. Gets turned down because there's nothing in it for them.
Tries calling in help from surviving ex-Linear Guildies. Gets turned down because they never really liked Nale, and/or there's nothing in it for them. Happens in a very heartbreaking sequence of panels, showing one LG member at a time, with Sabine looking sadder and sadder each time.
Sabine goes to Elan, and he's willing to tryand help, since he's the good twin.
They find a neutral cleric who can cast true res (Yeah, not going to happen)/Sabine learns from the experience how good people act and decides she likes it
If Nale returns, Sabine breaks down crying as he starts berating her for turning good "But I did it for YOU!"

So yeah, not going to happen. But she at least has the ability to turn good if she really wanted to.

LadyEowyn

2013-09-09, 09:25 PM

She's definitely going to want revenge against Tarquin, but I'm not sure how soon she can return to the normal world. It doesn't seem like it's been more than a few hours, tops, since she was banished (time passes very slowly in this comic, given that V is still under the 23-minute-long control of the fiends). Given that she and V are in the same place, it seems likely that she'll try to assist V in some way that would enable V to fight Tarquin effectively.

But Rich is very, very good at doing things I don't expect rather than going with the option that seems the most obvious.

Forikroder

2013-09-09, 09:26 PM

They find a neutral cleric who can cast true res (Yeah, not going to happen)/Sabine learns from the experience how good people act and decides she likes it

thats like the silliest thing ive ever heard shes more likely to think "man good people are suckers" then think "omg everything ive ever thought about people is wrong, i should change my entire perspective on reality"

Ramien

2013-09-09, 09:30 PM

multilis

2013-09-09, 09:36 PM

Imgran

2013-09-09, 09:53 PM

Doesn't Belkar kind of prove that you don't need to be good to work for the Order of the Stick? And that Roy will take whatever help he thinks he can trust not to stab him in the back at any point in the next 5 minutes?

I can definitely see Sabine offering surreptitious aid to the Order. This would not thrill Haley, but at the moment Sabine has no reason to be anything but straight with them, since they're the closest group handy that has all the information and power it needs to get back at Tarquin. Ensuring the Order survives is important if revenge is going to happen.

I can also see this being more amusing to her bosses than really an issue. Needless conflict, remember? You need a balance of power to maintain real conflict, and right now the Good Guys are running behind -- she can sell this easily. Their best pawns are neutralized, so pawnifying the Order would just be delightful for the IFCC

Ramien

2013-09-09, 10:26 PM

thats like the silliest thing ive ever heard shes more likely to think "man good people are suckers" then think "omg everything ive ever thought about people is wrong, i should change my entire perspective on reality"

You're no fun at all. :smalltongue: A lot of it would depend on how well Elan explains things as to why he's helping, and how much it fits in with her feelings on Nale. We've already seen what happens when Belkar gets a Wisdom boost, who knows what could happen if someone manages to get Sabine to extend a sense of fellow feeling to someone other than Nale?

Again, not going to happen, but Elan's already shown the ability to seduce a succubus physically (Just check out her reactions after he kissed her), why not morally as well? :smallwink:

Amphiox

2013-09-09, 11:18 PM

Sequel spinoff, to occur after the events of OotS.

"For Want of a Nale"

It will feature Elan leading a team consisting of Haley, Sabine, and his mother on an epic quest to find the fabled Tome of Forbidden Lore, legendary eldritch grimoire reputed to have been transcribed by a mad mage a thousand years ago, containing spells so worldbreakingly powerful that the very gods decreed them forbidden for all time (It contains True Resurrection, Wish, and Limited Wish, among others), in hopes of using True Resurrection to restore Nale (and maybe Wish to change his alignment - Sabine and Elan's Mom are still arguing over that one).

No one knows if the Tome even exists.

Elan shall be the heroic lead of this epic adventure, just as Tarquin wished for him. But Tarquin shall not see it, because by the end of OotS, he'll be dead.

(Elan's Mom is a Level 19 Alchemist. Everyone always said her bar's Sunday Special Cocktails were magical....)

Imgran

2013-09-10, 08:56 AM

Again, not going to happen, but Elan's already shown the ability to seduce a succubus physically (Just check out her reactions after he kissed her), why not morally as well? :smallwink:

*checks back through the archives*

Interesting. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0794.html) If the Giant wanted to do that he has, in fact, left the door wide open for himself to actually go ahead with it. He's mostly going for the mirror gag, but Sabine protesteth too much, far too much.

Does that mean I think it will happen? Nnnnnot really. But would it be out of the blue if it did? Again, not really.

Copperdragon

2013-09-10, 10:39 AM

What do you suppose she'll do next? I'd like to hear speculation

Have sex. Four times.

Ramien

2013-09-10, 10:47 AM

Have sex. Four times.

That will only take three hours. What next?

Chantelune

2013-09-10, 10:57 AM

Forikroder

2013-09-10, 11:08 AM

She stays out of the story. The LG is done, the IFCC might not have any more need of her, considering she gave signs of her loyalty toward them cracking in favor of Nale, a "simple" mortal and a pawn.

except we dont know her orders at all, we dont actually know that Sabine is anything but 100% loyal to the IFCC

David Argall

2013-09-10, 11:22 AM

there may be a 0.01% chance of her turning good, but considering she has no motivation or reason to turn good puts the kibosh on that plan
As already noted, she has plenty of potential motivation. She want Nale back, and nobody is interested, except at high price. We add in some angels who demand "payment" of her switching to good. [Saving a lost soul would be a fully reasonable motive for the angels.] She proves to really love Nale, so ...

While this has lots of possibilities, most of them seem to drift away from the plot. [Many seem to run away.] So why bother? We are likely to have to get rid of Nale in a book or so anyway. What's the real gain in getting him back only to lose him so quickly?

strijder20

2013-09-10, 11:31 AM

Come on, this one is kind of obvious.

Just as linear guild was evil opposite of OOTS, there is obviously a "good opposite" of IFCC. Rather than "Chaos+neutral+Lawful" they aim for "Good+neutral+evil (but helping good)".

V and Sabine are already bonding. It is only a matter of time before
Snarl recruits them and Miko to form "Snarl's Angels" with mission to stop IFCC

A LG-NG-CG combo makes much more sense for a good opposite. Why'd an evil fiend help good? That'd imply it would be much less intelligent than the other two (like Belkar being in the order because it allows him to kill things), and the fiends seem to be equal in intelligence, so their good opposites would be too.

JSSheridan

2013-09-10, 01:57 PM

Lee of the IFCC has Quarr.

Cedrick has Sabine.

And Nero will have Nale (neutral evil).

Ramien

2013-09-10, 02:03 PM

except we dont know her orders at all, we dont actually know that Sabine is anything but 100% loyal to the IFCC

This strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0804.html) would seem to indicate her loyalties are a bit more complex than that.

Chantelune

2013-09-10, 02:46 PM

Lee of the IFCC has Quarr.

Cedrick has Sabine.

And Nero will have Nale (neutral evil).

Uh, wasn't Nale supposed to be loyal evil, like his father and opposite to Elan's chaotic good ? :smallconfused:

As for an IFCC good counterpart, don't really see the need for such a thing. After all, I don't recall the good side having something like the Blood War, which is the main reason for the IFCC to exist in the first place (proving that fiends of different alignement can set aside the Blood War and actually work together on even greater evil).

chibibar

2013-09-10, 03:12 PM

Boom. (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a)

Yup. It is possible. Since WoTC made a page, it is now canon :) So a good succubus CAN be done, but not easy.

Chantelune

2013-09-10, 03:21 PM

Just because there is one good succubus being canon doesn't mean that any succubus can now be good. This might very well fall under the "exception confirming the rule" saying.

Aolbain

2013-09-10, 03:22 PM

It's more from a meta perspective than a karmic one. She's a third string thug for the B-plot bad guy who's entertaining, but less of a threat than her dead boyfriend was. Just because she has a reason to kill Tarquin doesn't mean she gets to kill him, or is even able to do so. Best she can realistically hope for is to have a hand in his death, rather than be the main cause of it.

Exactly. And wouldn't it be a giant, awesome, middle finger to Tarquin if a third string thug for the B-plot bad guy took him out?

Ramien

2013-09-10, 03:38 PM

Just because there is one good succubus being canon doesn't mean that any succubus can now be good. This might very well fall under the "exception confirming the rule" saying.

There are other examples out there - my physical library is at home so I can't go digging through the Planescape books or other outsider-heavy settings to look for them at the moment. But I can point out that the srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#evilSubtype) provides an implicit statement that naturally Evil monsters such as fiends can change their alignments, but are considered to be both their new alignment and Evil for purposes of being affected by detection or other alignment specific spells. So they can change alignments given sufficient cause, it's just very rare, and rather unlikely for Sabine, but it's interesting to think of scenarios where it could occur.

Matt620

2013-09-10, 06:44 PM

Uh, wasn't Nale supposed to be loyal evil, like his father and opposite to Elan's chaotic good ? :smallconfused:

As for an IFCC good counterpart, don't really see the need for such a thing. After all, I don't recall the good side having something like the Blood War, which is the main reason for the IFCC to exist in the first place (proving that fiends of different alignement can set aside the Blood War and actually work together on even greater evil).

It's true, Nale is Lawful Evil (he mentions it when he gets the Talisman).

However, there's no reason why Nero couldn't get the Neutral Evil Zz'dtri

halfeye

2013-09-10, 07:44 PM

It's true, Nale is Lawful Evil (he mentions it when he gets the Talisman).
He could have been lying.

His behaviour suggests Chaotic to me.

Rogar Demonblud

2013-09-10, 07:51 PM

Sabine works for Lee, the Archdevil. Who exactly Qarr works for has not been spelled out.

I can remember one succubus who serves Wee Jas as an agent for Planar Ally spells. I think she's Lawful Neutral rather than LG, though.

Obscure Blade

2013-09-11, 01:04 AM

There are other examples out there - my physical library is at home so I can't go digging through the Planescape books or other outsider-heavy settings to look for them at the moment.Fall-From-Grace from Planescape: Torment comes to mind as a fairly well known example of a non-evil succubus.

It's true, Nale is Lawful Evil (he mentions it when he gets the Talisman).As said his behavior doesn't match that, and as I recall the Giant has made a comment or two indicating Nale might not actually be LE.

WindStruck

2013-09-11, 03:13 AM

My guess is that she's still freaking out in Hell right now. Immediately lashing out at Tarquin and trying to rip out his throat (he and that psion) would seem like fine ideas at the moment, except she is still banished for many more hours. So she'd still be ranting and raving, making a deep concern for her employers who might not have realized until now that their succubus has dangerously fallen in love.

random bonus speculation:Very shortly after, she meets Nale's soul. In fact maybe the IFCC bring him there. Then they'll say something like "Well we thought you might've been a good pawn, but now we have a better one" *turns him into a lemure*

Then Sabine really goes nuts and the IFCC guys go, "sorry, you're more of a liability than an asset now" and permanently kill her.

Kish

2013-09-11, 05:56 AM

Not to cross threads, but "Nale said so" doesn't necessarily mean it's so. :smalltongue:

Ermete

2013-09-11, 09:35 AM

Boom. (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a)

Thanks dude, I was trying to remember were I read about it :smallsmile:

coming to the thread's topic, I think that the most plausible thing is that she will try to get revenge on Tarquin. And of course Nale resurrected. And get killed by the IFCC because for insubordination, since the imp hinted that this might be the case if she chooses her lover over her master(s)

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0804.html

:smallsmile:

Holammer

2013-09-11, 11:44 AM

As already noted, she has plenty of potential motivation. She want Nale back, and nobody is interested, except at high price. We add in some angels who demand "payment" of her switching to good. [Saving a lost soul would be a fully reasonable motive for the angels.] She proves to really love Nale, so ...

While this has lots of possibilities, most of them seem to drift away from the plot. [Many seem to run away.] So why bother? We are likely to have to get rid of Nale in a book or so anyway. What's the real gain in getting him back only to lose him so quickly?

That's a good setup for a descent to the underworld story. Hell, I'd draw that! But I'm sure Rich got something planned to deliver a canonical conclusion to Nale and Sabine. :smallwink: